12:00:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot
12:00:51 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-irc
12:01:13 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot
12:01:32 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG/IG
12:01:41 <kaz> chair: Sebastian
12:01:44 <kaz> regrets+ McCool
12:02:02 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Ege_Korkan, Michael_Lagally
12:02:51 <ryuichi> ryuichi has joined #wot
12:02:59 <kaz> present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
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12:03:32 <cris_> cris_ has joined #wot
12:03:36 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#22_March_2023
12:04:15 <kaz> s|WoT-WG/IG|WoT-WG/IG Meeting + 7th WoT WG Charter Meeting - Day 1|
12:04:24 <kaz> q+
12:04:45 <kaz> scribenick: cris
12:04:46 <kaz> ack k
12:04:57 <kaz> scribenick: cris_
12:05:38 <cris_> seb: welcome to the main call
12:06:05 <cris_> topic: guests
12:06:10 <cris_> seb: no new members
12:06:15 <cris_> topic: minutes
12:06:31 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2023/03/15-wot-minutes.html Mar-15
12:06:47 <luca_barbato_> luca_barbato_ has joined #wot
12:07:23 <cris_> seb: remember we are currently in day light saving mode, therefore we set all the meeting for one hour early
12:07:38 <cris_> ... next week everything will be back to normal operation
12:07:49 <cris_> ... we also postpone the testfest
12:08:19 <cris_> ... we talked also about developer meeting and the social impact questionnaire
12:08:55 <cris_> ... we use the main call time to talk about WG charter too
12:09:10 <cris_> ... there still some few PR to optimize the content of the charter
12:09:15 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot
12:09:18 <cris_> ... mainly to attract new members
12:10:11 <cris_> ... found a mistake in the minutes, issue 28 was actually a PR
12:10:51 <cris_> ... finally we talked about remaining issues
12:10:59 <cris_> ... we have still to look at issue 14
12:11:08 <cris_> ... with a related proposal from Ben
12:11:13 <cris_> ... any comments?
12:11:38 <cris_> ... ok minutes approved
12:11:43 <cris_> topic: Quick updates
12:11:51 <kaz> q+
12:11:56 <cris_> subtopic: Use case policy discussion
12:12:06 <cris_> seb: is this already clarified?
12:12:22 <cris_> kaz: I added this point in the agenda
12:12:43 <kaz> ack k
12:12:49 <kaz> s/in the/to the/
12:12:50 <cris_> ... I want to have that added to the use case requirements document
12:13:26 <cris_> ml: I need a generic conversation about use case details need to be present
12:13:32 <kaz> s/requirements document/call agenda, and have further discussion during the use case calls. We don't need to talk about this now./
12:13:37 <cris_> ... the conclusion is we make this a dedicated agenda item
12:13:46 <cris_> ... in a future use case call
12:13:51 <cris_> s/future/next/
12:14:08 <cris_> kaz: yes, just please start from that next time
12:14:10 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
12:14:11 <cris_> ml: agreed
12:14:17 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:14:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:14:26 <cris_> topic: Testing
12:14:30 <cris_> seb: we need to make progress to our open gaps
12:14:38 <cris_> ... at least two implementations
12:14:50 <cris_> ... there is a developer meeting planned for next week
12:15:02 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner, Michael_Koster
12:15:04 <cris_> ... there is a document where you can find more details
12:15:06 <kaz> q?
12:15:08 <kaz> q+
12:15:12 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:15:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:15:51 <sebastian> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/tree/main/events/2023.03.DevMtg
12:15:53 <sebastian> q?
12:16:08 <Ege> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#Thing_Description_.2815_mins.29
12:16:11 <cris_> ege: I prepare two slide decks about the details of each assetions
12:16:14 <kaz> s/DevMtg/DevMtg Dev Meeting logistics/
12:16:21 <kaz> q?
12:16:25 <cris_> s/prepare/prepared/
12:16:39 <sebastian> -> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1OZeLR0-qAw01R1UloTG25xQjc5LFuwvRP9o50QVo660/edit#slide=id.p
12:16:49 <cris_> ... presentation is public and you can give comment
12:16:49 <sebastian> -> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/16Ow5rPjnojdl693pqkOhoc5bNCBIMOYZvJQC9wHZGsk/edit#slide=id.p
12:17:08 <cris_> kaz: we should update goals in the logistic
12:17:48 <cris_> ege: we will discuss about it in the testing call
12:18:08 <cris_> seb: meeting is planned for one hour
12:18:10 <kaz> present+ Luca_Barbato, Tomoaki_Mizushima
12:18:12 <cris_> ... do we need more time?
12:18:12 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:18:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:18:44 <cris_> ... next week we might focus only on TD assetions
12:18:51 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
12:18:56 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:18:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:19:04 <cris_> ... after TD is done we can focus on Arch
12:19:16 <mlagally> mlagally has joined #wot
12:19:18 <cris_> ... finally discovery for the week after
12:19:33 <cris_> ... keep this suggestion in mind for the testing call
12:19:42 <mlagally> q+
12:19:45 <cris_> ... one hour is not enough
12:19:48 <kaz> s/in the logistics/on the logistics page. Also we should clarify when to have what based on McCool's proposal on the main wiki./
12:20:01 <kaz> q- later
12:20:05 <dape> dape has joined #wot
12:20:35 <cris_> ml
12:20:40 <cris_> s/ml//
12:20:57 <cris_> ml: we would need the arch call next week, there are some points that we have to finish
12:21:05 <cris_> seb: ok let's discuss this in the testing call
12:21:19 <cris_> ... any other topics?
12:21:29 <kaz> s/topics/points/
12:21:35 <cris_> ... there is also a joint meeting planned with JP community group
12:21:53 <cris_> ... they need clarifications about the at-risk features before the meeting
12:22:06 <kaz> s/this in the testing call/the Charter part later during the Charter agenda item./
12:22:06 <cris_> ... Ege's slides should help here
12:22:08 <kaz> q+
12:22:13 <cris_> ack ml
12:22:56 <cris_> kaz: I spoke with JP community chair, I want to stress the need for clarifications about at risk features. Especially about what they really mean.
12:23:09 <Mizushima> +1 kaz
12:23:11 <kaz> ack k
12:23:16 <cris_> ... context and editor intention need to be explained.
12:23:39 <cris_> seb: would be ok to talk about it during the meeting
12:24:00 <cris_> kaz: that's why we need more days as Mccool suggested
12:24:42 <mlagally> q+
12:25:10 <cris_> seb: should we make resolution here?
12:25:13 <cris_> kaz: we can
12:25:14 <cris_> ml
12:25:17 <cris_> s/ml//
12:25:30 <cris_> ml: suggest to make a resolution here
12:25:46 <kaz> s/we need more days as Mccool suggested/we should hold two dev meetings separately, one for TD first, and another for Testing (as McCool proposes here)/
12:25:51 <cris_> ... usually there are no many head count in the testing call
12:26:01 <cris_> ... we can discuss details in the testing call
12:26:12 <sebastian> proposal: the developer meeting will be split in 3 seperate meetings: Use Dev meetings Mar 28/29 to review TD assertions, Use Arch call Mar 30 to finalize Dev review material for Arch, and Use Discovery calls Apr 3/10 to prep Dev review material for Discovery
12:26:19 <kaz> s/we can/we can make a resolution about the basic plan now, and think about the details on the logistics later during the Testing call./
12:27:04 <kaz> q+
12:27:09 <mlagally> ack ml
12:27:31 <kaz> ack k
12:27:41 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:27:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:27:56 <kaz> kaz: @@@
12:28:17 <sebastian> resolution: the global developer meeting will be split in 3 seperate meetings: Use dev meetings Mar 28/29 to review TD assertions, use Arch call Mar 30 to finalize Dev review material for Arch, and use Discovery calls Apr 3/10 to prep Dev review material for Discovery
12:28:54 <cris_> seb: Ege please organize further details in the testing call
12:29:00 <cris_> ege: ok
12:29:04 <kaz> s/@@@/Let's say "global developer meeting" for this resolution. Probably the JP version meeting will be also split into 3 meetings but we can make a resolution for the global one now./
12:29:08 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:29:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:29:21 <cris_> subtopic: Testfest
12:29:29 <cris_> seb: planned for 3 days
12:29:35 <kaz> i/we need to make/subtopic: Dev Meeting/
12:29:36 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:29:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:29:44 <cris_> ... 1h meetings
12:29:57 <mlagally> q+
12:30:08 <kaz> q+
12:30:23 <cris_> ... seems there is a problem in the timing in the agenda
12:30:29 <sebastian> ack m
12:30:39 <kaz> i/Let's say/scribenick: kaz/
12:30:39 <cris_> s/timing/timing table/
12:30:49 <kaz> s/Ege please/Ege, please/
12:31:00 <kaz> i/organize/scribenick: cris_/
12:31:01 <cris_> ml: big concern testing call falls in easter time
12:31:03 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:31:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:31:58 <cris_> seb: there will be public holidays
12:32:12 <cris_> ... but not a big impact on our calls
12:32:26 <cris_> ml: just keep in mind that people might take vaction
12:32:49 <cris_> subtopic: binding meetup
12:33:12 <cris_> seb: do we need some of our group join this meeting?
12:33:32 <kaz> ack k
12:33:34 <cris_> kaz: we can ask Ege to improve the description for the global version of the meeting
12:33:55 <mlagally> s/big concern testing call falls in easter time/test fest week is during easter vacation break in some countries - may have limited attendance/
12:34:04 <cris_> topic: Pubblication check
12:34:19 <cris_> seb: we have some delay in our plan
12:34:34 <cris_> ... we have not completed the charter review
12:34:45 <cris_> ... is not ready to be submitted
12:34:48 <kaz> s/we can ask Ege to improve the description for the global version of the meeting/We can organize another meetup event with the WoT CG guys, and I thought Ege was working on that./
12:34:55 <cris_> ... there is the reason why we updated the time table
12:36:08 <kaz> s/Puublication check/Schedule/
12:36:36 <kaz> i|we have some delay|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/charters/wg-2021-extension-plan.md Schedule|
12:36:43 <cris_> seb: do you think the new schedule is reasonable?
12:37:12 <kaz> q+
12:37:14 <sebastian> q?
12:38:16 <cris_> kaz: the proposed updated schedule, is fine. We should be aware that our schedule is getting tighter and tighter. We need to follow it.
12:38:57 <cris_> ... for this reason we might need to prioritize work and use other task force calls to finish up undone items
12:39:27 <cris_> ... sacrificing only arch and profile  is not fair
12:39:29 <cris_> seb: I agree
12:39:46 <kaz> i|do you think|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1083 PR 1083 - Adjust dates for new charter in schedule|
12:39:58 <cris_> ... maybe we can do some charter discussion in today's TD call
12:40:03 <kaz> ack k
12:40:06 <kaz> q+
12:40:14 <cris_> ... maybe it make sense to have a look regarding the issue of binding naming
12:41:16 <cris_> kaz: I agree, we should be careful not to put detailed discussion in the charter itself
12:42:17 <cris_> ... also if possible we should not only arch call but TD call too. Just keep in mind that it might be too late for some geographic  aeras.
12:42:17 <mlagally> q?
12:42:23 <kaz> ack k
12:42:37 <cris_> ... we can use other calls like security call and scripting API call
12:42:55 <cris_> q+
12:43:00 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:43:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:43:07 <mlagally> q+
12:43:12 <cris_> ege: in the TD call I allocated 30 min for charter discussion
12:43:29 <kaz> s/Pubblication check/Schedule/
12:44:00 <kaz> q+
12:44:07 <kaz> ack cr
12:44:14 <cris_> cris: we can use scripting too
12:44:17 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:44:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:44:34 <cris_> ... just keep in mind that we have to move our deadline for the pubblication of scripting API doc
12:45:01 <cris_> seb: ok not really useful for US and JP
12:45:36 <cris_> kaz: we can make preliminary decisions today
12:45:54 <cris_> ... and then propose it to the absents
12:46:04 <cris_> ml: we can use 30 min of tomorrow's Arch call
12:46:23 <kaz> s/to the absents/to McCool, Ben, etc./
12:47:21 <kaz> q+
12:47:25 <kaz> ack ml
12:47:41 <dezell> dezell has joined #wot
12:47:51 <dezell> Present+ David_Ezell
12:48:12 <cris_> kaz: remember that we don't need to work out all the existing issues on Github
12:48:27 <cris_> ... we just need to decide what should be included and what not.
12:48:46 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:48:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:49:23 <sebastian> proposal: to do the charter discussion we should spend time in today's TD call (about binding topic), 20min in tomorrow's Arch call, and use the complete scriting call session
12:50:21 <kaz> s/20/30/
12:50:28 <kaz> s/scriting/scripting/
12:50:39 <sebastian> resolution: to do the charter discussion we should spend time in today's TD call (30min about binding topic), 20min in tomorrow's Arch call, and use the complete scriting call session
12:50:48 <dape> Present+ Daniel_Peintner
12:51:33 <kaz> s/scriting/scripting/
12:51:59 <kaz> s/30min in to/20min in to/
12:52:00 <cris_> seb: going back to the schedule is that ok to merge it?
12:52:02 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:52:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:52:24 <kaz> q+
12:52:57 <cris_> kaz: please be aware the procedure would be wide review as with the specification
12:53:05 <cris_> ... at the minimum.
12:53:36 <cris_> topic: Charter PR
12:53:44 <cris_> s/PR/PRs/
12:53:45 <Ege> q+
12:53:55 <kaz> s/specification/specification around one month, then W3M review around 2 weeks, then AC review around one month./
12:53:56 <kaz> ack k
12:54:43 <kaz> q+
12:54:50 <cris_> seb: please review the list and provide your feedback
12:55:08 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22WG+New+Charter+Plans+2023%22 remaining issues marked as "WG New Charter Plans 2023"
12:55:20 <cris_> ege: the PR92 and PR93 have implications of the next profile document
12:55:42 <cris_> ... it would be nice to have Michael Lagally in the call
12:55:42 <kaz> q?
12:55:45 <kaz> ack e
12:56:01 <cris_> ml: I can't but we can talk about it tomorrow in the architecture call
12:56:26 <cris_> kaz: among those five remaining issues protocol bindings issues have potentially to much detail
12:56:51 <cris_> ... I am ok with the current wording
12:57:08 <cris_> ... this discussion should happen first before any low level detail
12:57:29 <cris_> seb: maybe we can decide to post pone the detailed discussion
12:57:42 <kaz> s/remaining issues p/remaining issues, p/
12:57:49 <kaz> ack k
12:57:50 <cris_> q?
12:57:52 <sebastian> q?
12:58:11 <cris_> topic: Questionnaire
12:58:21 <cris_> seb: first proposal from Mccool
12:58:24 <cris_> ... PR ready
12:58:28 <kaz> s/current wording/current wording within the normative deliverable section and the informative deliverable section./
12:58:29 <sebastian> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/897
12:58:44 <kaz> s/post pone/postpone/
12:58:57 <kaz> s/Mccool/McCool/
12:59:02 <Ege> q+
12:59:07 <cris_> topic: Liasons
12:59:10 <cris_> seb: no news
12:59:22 <Ege> q-
12:59:27 <cris_> ... waiting for w3c for the memorandum of understanding
12:59:56 <Ege> q+
13:00:36 <cris_> ege: community group Sick AG will present a digital twin solution using WoT
13:00:36 <Ege> https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/e72912b5-3087-440e-950e-886acbab645d
13:00:42 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot-cg/discussions/13#discussioncomment-5335831
13:00:44 <kaz> s/897/897 wot-architecture PR 897 - Societal Impact Questionniare/
13:00:47 <cris_> ... and next up we have Siemens and Microsoft
13:00:55 <cris_> ... with their use cases about WoT
13:01:04 <cris_> seb: no other updates?
13:01:07 <cris_> ... ok
13:01:18 <kaz> s/Liasons/Liaisons/
13:01:30 <cris_> [adjourned]
13:01:33 <luca_barbato_> luca_barbato_ has left #wot
13:01:38 <kaz> s/Liaisons/Liaisons and collaborations/
13:01:47 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:01:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:02:48 <kaz> s/no news/no news on the Liaisons/
13:03:19 <kaz> s/memorandum of understanding/response to the MOCA for OPC liaison.
13:03:22 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:03:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:03:48 <kaz> s/community group/FYI, WoT CG update./
13:03:52 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:03:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:04:22 <kaz> s/... ok/(none)/
13:04:24 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:04:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:50:37 <Mizushima> Mizushima has left #wot
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