17:00:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:00:13 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/03/16-aria-irc
17:00:13 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:00:14 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
17:00:14 <jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
17:00:14 <agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
17:00:14 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/9feee29c-7a84-443a-8e11-543fbdc2c191/20230316T130000
17:00:14 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:00:14 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3lbjF3N
17:00:15 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3YLMq4K
17:00:17 <agendabot> agenda+  -> F2F Planning https://github.com/w3c/aria/labels/F2FCandidate
17:00:18 <Adam_Page> Adam_Page has joined #aria
17:00:24 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Which ARIA synonym role should computedrole return? https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1888
17:00:25 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Step 2C includes controls with value that are directly referenced by labelledby or describedby https://github.com/w3c/accname/pull/183
17:00:28 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Role parity: consider "native-" or "host-" role prefix for host language elements (including audio/video, but not limited to media) where custom ARIA implementations cannot (yet) match the native implementation's accessibility. https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/529
17:00:54 <BenBeaudry> BenBeaudry has joined #aria
17:01:00 <BenBeaudry> present+
17:01:44 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike has joined #aria
17:02:20 <spectranaut_> I'm having trouble getting into meeting
17:02:31 <jamesn> 904735
17:02:51 <arigilmore> arigilmore has joined #aria
17:03:35 <arigilmore> Hi, what's the zoom password?
17:03:45 <BenBeaudry> 904735
17:04:39 <arigilmore> thank you!
17:09:05 <Andrea> Andrea has joined #aria
17:09:08 <arigilmore> scribe: arigilmore
17:09:16 <arigilmore> zakim, next item
17:09:16 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3lbjF3N -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:09:22 <Adam_Page> present+
17:10:13 <arigilmore> spectranaut: mel proposed decorative image roles
17:10:37 <arigilmore> scotto: doesn't agree it should be in this spec
17:10:41 <CurtBellew> CurtBellew has joined #aria
17:11:24 <arigilmore> jamesn: should be in html spec
17:11:42 <arigilmore> scott will transfer
17:12:08 <CurtBellew> present+
17:12:46 <arigilmore> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1889
17:12:58 <arigilmore> spectranaut_: is this a duplicate?
17:13:05 <arigilmore> scotto_: not a duplicate
17:13:15 <arigilmore> jamesn: adding to 1.4
17:13:20 <arigilmore> no assignees
17:14:17 <arigilmore> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1888
17:14:37 <arigilmore> spectranuaut: maybe we should wait for james
17:14:46 <arigilmore> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1887
17:15:06 <arigilmore> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1885
17:15:29 <arigilmore> jamesn: aaron did most of this commenting we should probably get his comment on this
17:15:55 <arigilmore> spectranaut_: should this be 1.4?
17:16:05 <arigilmore> jamesn: maybe 1.3 because we have a user agents must
17:16:32 <arigilmore> zakim, next item
17:16:32 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3YLMq4K -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:17:06 <arigilmore> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1886
17:17:15 <arigilmore> zakim, close this item
17:17:15 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
17:17:16 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:17:16 <Zakim> 3. -> F2F Planning https://github.com/w3c/aria/labels/F2FCandidate [from agendabot]
17:17:23 <arigilmore> zakim, next
17:17:23 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next', arigilmore
17:17:26 <arigilmore> zakim, next item
17:17:26 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> F2F Planning https://github.com/w3c/aria/labels/F2FCandidate -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:17:55 <spectranaut_> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/83726/2023ARIAf2f/
17:17:56 <arigilmore> spectranaut_: reminder to add issues to discuss at f2f meeting
17:18:11 <arigilmore> spectranaut_: will send an email with survey and updates
17:18:32 <arigilmore> jamesn: participant driven
17:19:32 <spectranaut_> agenda?
17:20:19 <arigilmore> zakim, take up item 5
17:20:19 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- -> Step 2C includes controls with value that are directly referenced by labelledby or describedby https://github.com/w3c/accname/pull/183 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:20:46 <arigilmore> spectranaut_: ready for merge but sara needs to rebase, but she's not here
17:21:01 <arigilmore> spectranaut: nothing to move forward with right now
17:21:19 <arigilmore> jamesn: can probably resolve the conflict, will take a look
17:21:48 <arigilmore> jamesn: adding new id refs if sara doesn't get around to it soon
17:22:31 <arigilmore> scotto: quick question on those who have aom background
17:22:33 <arigilmore> zakim, take up item 4
17:22:33 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- -> Which ARIA synonym role should computedrole return? https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1888 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:23:07 <arigilmore> jamesn: new thing in computed role which can be return by platform tests
17:23:42 <arigilmore> jamesn: two roles have synonyms should it return none, presentation, image, img?
17:23:52 <arigilmore> scotto: should this be in core aam?
17:24:33 <arigilmore> scotto: since they can be mapped by the same thing then what do they even mean?
17:25:57 <spectranaut_> we think this belongs in https://w3c.github.io/core-aam
17:26:39 <arigilmore> spectranaut: should there be different computed role mappings for different platforms?
17:26:49 <arigilmore> scotto: aria probably not, but html gets messier
17:28:39 <arigilmore> spectranaut: will move to core aam
17:28:56 <spectranaut_> agenda?
17:29:47 <arigilmore> zakim, take up item 6
17:29:47 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- -> Role parity: consider "native-" or "host-" role prefix for host language elements (including audio/video, but not limited to media) where custom ARIA
17:29:47 <Zakim> ... implementations cannot (yet) match the native implementation's accessibility. https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/529 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:30:15 <jamesn> topic: AOM topic from Scott
17:30:51 <arigilmore> scotto: more a general question if theres a decision on certain attributes being reflected or if aom will not reflect attributes
17:31:04 <arigilmore> scotto: translation services don't respect aria label
17:31:21 <arigilmore> scotto: they shouldn't use aria-label if they know they will translate there web pages
17:31:49 <arigilmore> scotto: what if someone set internals aria-label: foo but how will it update that?
17:32:37 <arigilmore> scotto: if aria-label and aria-description have to print to render dom to be reviewed and updated
17:33:30 <arigilmore> scotto: otherwise services will have no way of updating those
17:33:30 <arigilmore> jamesn: simple attributes like the string ones are reflected
17:33:30 <arigilmore> jamesn: the complex attributes will be difficult
17:33:45 <arigilmore> jamesn: boolean or enums how will those reflect
17:34:24 <jamesn> reflection does work - https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.2/#idl_example_usage
17:34:25 <arigilmore> scotto: if popover is associated with a button then the expanded state will be reflected
17:34:59 <arigilmore> scotto: requested an additional hook
17:35:23 <arigilmore> jamesn: how does that work for checkboxes that are only available in idl?
17:35:38 <arigilmore> scotto: there's a seudo selector for that
17:36:51 <arigilmore> scotto: there's an open hide or open close seudo selector
17:37:33 <arigilmore> jamesn: confirmed in the example above the reflection works
17:38:08 <arigilmore> benbeaudry: what does reflection mean?
17:38:44 <arigilmore> benbeaudry: are there cases where there shouldn't be reflected?
17:40:29 <arigilmore> jamesn: 1.3 is wrong reflected attributes don't work like that
17:40:38 <arigilmore> spectranaut: should probably file an issue
17:40:56 <arigilmore> jamesn: needs examples/text about this
17:42:06 <arigilmore> zakim, end meeting
17:42:06 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been BenBeaudry, Adam_Page, CurtBellew
17:42:08 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:42:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/16-aria-minutes.html Zakim
17:42:16 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, arigilmore; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
17:42:16 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
17:42:33 <jamesn> present+
17:42:36 <arigilmore> present+
17:42:37 <spectranaut_> present+
17:43:05 <Andrea> present+
17:43:14 <jamesn> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:43:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/16-aria-minutes.html jamesn
18:07:24 <StefanS> StefanS has joined #aria
18:07:32 <StefanS> present+