20:53:35 RRSAgent has joined #mediawg 20:53:39 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/03/14-mediawg-irc 20:53:39 Zakim has joined #mediawg 20:53:44 RRSAgent, make logs public 20:53:59 Meeting: Media Working Group 20:54:14 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/media-wg/blob/main/meetings/2023-03-14-Media_Working_Group_Teleconference-agenda.md#agenda 20:57:37 ghurlbot, this is w3c/media-source 20:57:38 tidoust, OK. But note that I am not currently expanding issues. You can change that with: ghurlbot issues on 20:57:45 ghurlbot, issues on 20:57:45 tidoust, OK. 20:58:40 present+ Chris_Needham 21:00:10 present+ Eric_Carlson, Youenn_Fablet, Bernard_Aboba 21:00:23 present+ Francois_Daoust 21:00:51 present+ Gary_Katsevman 21:01:54 present+ Jean-Yves_Avenard 21:02:00 present+ Eugene_Zemtsov 21:02:16 scribe+ cpn 21:02:42 present+ Jer_Noble 21:02:54 chair: Jer_Noble, Chris_Needham 21:03:16 present+ Peter_Thatcher 21:04:00 present+ Greg_Freedman 21:04:18 present+ Karl_Tomlinson 21:04:48 present+ Tommy_Steimel 21:05:58 eugene has joined #mediawg 21:06:05 youenn has joined #mediawg 21:06:08 gregwf has joined #mediawg 21:06:10 jernoble has joined #mediawg 21:06:14 present+ 21:06:56 Xiaohan has joined #mediawg 21:07:00 eric-carlson_ has joined #mediawg 21:07:13 cpn: Topics for this meeting: 21:07:34 ... 1. Rechartering discussions lead to questions about MSE V2 and what is in-scope 21:07:53 present+ Sushanth_Rajasankar 21:08:03 ... 2. Media Session API; feature prioritization and scoping 21:08:21 mfoltzgoogle has joined #mediawg 21:08:28 present+ Mark_Foltz 21:08:51 jya: we at apple have been working with Chrome with a solution to low memory devices and eviction 21:09:25 ... Are working on a new proposal, a Managed Media Source object, with slightly different behavior from Media Source 21:09:59 ... The big difference is that Managed Media Source will tell the page when it wants to append data, and can evict data from the buffer without interaction with the page 21:10:05 ... It includes some ideas from MSE v2 21:10:44 cpn: Can you share the issue #s? 21:11:12 jya: No issues yet; exists in a Google Doc at the moment. Main goal is just to get feedback from the community. 21:11:37 ... Mostly a reaction to getting MSE working on low-power mobile devices using high-power-usage 5g networks 21:12:29 cpn: lets look at the scoping first; and arrange for jya to walk the group through the design of the API 21:12:57 sushraja has joined #mediawg 21:13:24 is there a link to the managed media source proposal ? 21:13:41 gregwf: I'm working on getStatusForPolicy() but don't have an update today 21:14:34 cpn: from the chartering perspective we don't appear to be overcommitting ourselves. 21:14:35 https://github.com/w3c/media-source/labels/TPAC-2022-discussion 21:15:08 ... Matt had identified issues (linked above) as the main issues he intended to clean up for the MSE v2 work 21:15:39 markw_ has joined #mediawg 21:15:49 dale: We on the chrome side don't have the bandwidth to move forward anything that doesn't already have cross-browser buy in 21:16:40 jernoble: it seems we need to determine which are important for v2 and which we could drop 21:17:19 dale: we don't have tests in the spec for promise, also play through gaps is popular, but not something we have bandwidth for 21:17:20 dale: the items that have already been landed in the spec are those that have already received the most requests for 21:18:56 dale: we're limited on bandwidth for both spec and implementation work 21:19:45 jernoble: something that might help with v2 is to get input from the video developer folks from FOMS, to collect requirements 21:20:10 ... so before we drop doing the work, we want to directly involve some of the developers 21:20:40 dale: a lot of the issues were already put forward by them, so seems unfair to go back to ask them to prioritise 21:21:28 jernoble: we could ask at least. for example, something not covered here is something that allows you to disconnect a media source to another media element while maintaining the buffer state 21:21:42 .. it's something i hadn't heard before, but multiple engine authors mentioned it 21:21:50 dale: there is an issue somewhere 21:22:39 cpn: anything from your point of view, mark? 21:23:16 mark: there's too many issues to say, i can do some work but need to narrow it down to things that are already implemented or where there's interest to implement 21:23:50 ... we have workers and changetype already implemented and specced. is there anything else in the list planned to implement? 21:24:27 jernoble: i think some things in the list we'd like to roll into the managed media source 21:26:07 dale: we could come up with a proposal and ask in the video-dev slack 21:26:31 mark: we could set a timeframe, label issues as v3 21:27:14 dale: (in Webex chat): v2 = {changetype, workers, managedmediasource?, maybe 1-2 video-dev requests?} v3={everything else} 21:27:31 cpn: that seems like a good package of features that could be a good v2 21:28:06 ... Another thing we can do is reach out to the CTA-WAVE community about features they would like in V2 21:29:01 ... ACTION: Identify which issues are related to ManagedMediaSource (jya) 21:29:11 jean yves (in Webex chat): So this is an explainer for the ManagedMediaSource we would like to propose. It stemmed from https://github.com/w3c/media-source/issues/232#issuecomment-1249781923 21:29:13 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jJ0nse9i3cpE59mhSiq2ZKemCq1B5ZuLQ2UzqigIYLA/edit?usp=sharing 21:29:28 jya: Unfortunately I have to leave early 21:30:14 jernoble: Volunteers jya to identify which issues would be covered by MMS 21:31:00 dale: I volunteer for bringing the smaller issue list to the Video-dev community, after jernoble and jya have pulled in some items covered by MMS into the v2 milestone. 21:31:48 markw_: Lets keep the v2 label but move all the current items out, and create a new v3 label and attach it to all the previously-v2 item.s 21:32:40 cpn: If there's anything we think is currently labeled as v2 and is moved out of scope that we apply a new (v3-proposed?) label so as not to lose track 21:33:47 ACTION: Perform the v2 -> v3-proposed relabeling 21:34:07 action: Identify which issues are related to ManagedMediaSource (jya) 21:34:08 I created -> issue #319 https://github.com/w3c/media-source/issues/319 21:34:09 but I could not add the "action" label. 21:34:09 That probably means I don't have push permission on w3c/media-source. 21:37:15 Topic: Media Session API 21:37:41 Here is the new V2 milestone: https://github.com/w3c/media-source/milestone/8 21:37:43 youenn: Since last meeting, Tommy and I have gone through the open issues, mark them as enhancement as P1 or ready for PR 21:37:50 ... we have some issues where we're not sure 21:38:08 ... We might copy the MSE milestone approach 21:38:27 ... We want some feedback on the selection, so wondering about the best approach 21:38:50 ... We're close to having a selection 21:40:32 ... You identified a few issues needing prioritisation discussion? 21:40:50 youennf: Yes, the longer we wait on some of these, the harder they become to ship 21:41:12 ... Is there consensus from user agents that we should tackle them sooner rather than later? 21:41:25 ... One issue involves a larger change, #228 21:41:25 https://github.com/w3c/media-source/issues/228 -> Pull Request 228 [closed] Separate Definitions section from Introduction (saschanaz) 21:41:56 ... We could start a discussion on each issue, but we want to know what the priority is 21:43:05 cpn: If we have the right people here we could look at the prioritisation, without going into detail 21:43:33 youennf: Same-origin restrictions, we could do the same with media session. Is there any interest from Chrome and Mozilla to work on that? 21:43:45 ... The two first issues relate to iframes, so in the same buckegt 21:44:52 tommy: from Chrome point of view, I don't think we have plans to implement those. if there's developer feedback to say they're v1 worthy, we could look at it 21:45:27 youennf: difficult to restrict if only one browser is doing it. this is why i'm cautious, and leaving to v2 would make it harder 21:45:55 ... so i'd be tempted to mark the feature policy integration as v1, then hope that user agents can synchronize on shipping that 21:46:30 ... so marking 221 is good? and 194, which is more feature level, we could leave to v2? 21:46:43 tommy: seems good, 194 is an enhancement so less backwards compatibility risk 21:47:14 youennf: 228 was being pushed by Chrome, can you check if there's still interest to make the change and handle the backwards compatibility issues? 21:47:27 tommy: i'll check with francois, to be sure 21:47:40 ... seems like a developer ergonomics issue 21:47:56 youennf: that's all I wanted to talk about on media session 21:49:07 [I have questions on EME at the end if we still have time] 21:49:19 Topic: EME 21:50:15 xaiohan: We have issues tagged as v2 and v2-bugfixes in EME. Do we still need to triage those for EME v2? 21:50:50 EME v2 issues: https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/milestone/5 21:51:09 EME v2 bugfixes: https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/milestone/6 21:51:24 cpn: last time we discussed not pursuing the existing session API 21:51:49 gregfreedman: are there issues that you want to get in FWPD? 21:52:12 xiaohan: I can look to see if there's anything important. If we don't think those are important for EME v2, we can tag them as v3 21:52:35 gregfreedman: We can talk later 21:53:11 xiaohan: Another issue related to EME storage, there's also DOM storage, a clear-site-data header that sites can set. How should EME persistent data behave? 21:53:12 Both the milestones have been renamed: V3 and V3BugFixes. We can move any that we intend to address in V2 to the new V2 milestone. 21:53:21 xiaohan: I'll file an issue on that 21:59:12 cpn: i'd suggest only re-label issues if we need to reprioritise. The main thing is getting the feature additions for v2 FPWD 22:02:03 Topic: TPAC planning 22:02:26 cpn: TPAC is in September, would be good to know if you'd plan to travel 22:02:44 .. I'll raise a GitHub issue, please give an indication there 22:02:50 [adjourned] 22:03:16 rrsagent, draft minutes 22:03:18 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/14-mediawg-minutes.html cpn 22:06:13 i/cpn: Topics for this meeting/scribe+ jernoble 22:06:38 i/cpn: Topics for this meeting/Topic: Media Source Extensions v2 22:06:40 RRSAgent, draft minutes 22:06:41 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/14-mediawg-minutes.html tidoust 23:25:59 Zakim has left #mediawg