IRC log of mediawg on 2023-03-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/03/14-mediawg-irc
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20:53:44 [tidoust]
RRSAgent, make logs public
20:53:59 [tidoust]
Meeting: Media Working Group
20:54:14 [tidoust]
Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/media-wg/blob/main/meetings/2023-03-14-Media_Working_Group_Teleconference-agenda.md#agenda
20:57:37 [tidoust]
ghurlbot, this is w3c/media-source
20:57:38 [ghurlbot]
tidoust, OK. But note that I am not currently expanding issues. You can change that with: ghurlbot issues on
20:57:45 [tidoust]
ghurlbot, issues on
20:57:45 [ghurlbot]
tidoust, OK.
20:58:40 [cpn]
present+ Chris_Needham
21:00:10 [cpn]
present+ Eric_Carlson, Youenn_Fablet, Bernard_Aboba
21:00:23 [cpn]
present+ Francois_Daoust
21:00:51 [cpn]
present+ Gary_Katsevman
21:01:54 [tidoust]
present+ Jean-Yves_Avenard
21:02:00 [cpn]
present+ Eugene_Zemtsov
21:02:16 [cpn]
scribe+ cpn
21:02:42 [cpn]
present+ Jer_Noble
21:02:54 [cpn]
chair: Jer_Noble, Chris_Needham
21:03:16 [cpn]
present+ Peter_Thatcher
21:04:00 [cpn]
present+ Greg_Freedman
21:04:18 [cpn]
present+ Karl_Tomlinson
21:04:48 [cpn]
present+ Tommy_Steimel
21:05:58 [eugene]
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present+
21:06:56 [Xiaohan]
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21:07:00 [eric-carlson_]
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21:07:13 [jernoble]
cpn: Topics for this meeting:
21:07:34 [jernoble]
... 1. Rechartering discussions lead to questions about MSE V2 and what is in-scope
21:07:53 [tidoust]
present+ Sushanth_Rajasankar
21:08:03 [jernoble]
... 2. Media Session API; feature prioritization and scoping
21:08:21 [mfoltzgoogle]
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21:08:28 [mfoltzgoogle]
present+ Mark_Foltz
21:08:51 [jernoble]
jya: we at apple have been working with Chrome with a solution to low memory devices and eviction
21:09:25 [jernoble]
... Are working on a new proposal, a Managed Media Source object, with slightly different behavior from Media Source
21:09:59 [jernoble]
... The big difference is that Managed Media Source will tell the page when it wants to append data, and can evict data from the buffer without interaction with the page
21:10:05 [jernoble]
... It includes some ideas from MSE v2
21:10:44 [jernoble]
cpn: Can you share the issue #s?
21:11:12 [jernoble]
jya: No issues yet; exists in a Google Doc at the moment. Main goal is just to get feedback from the community.
21:11:37 [jernoble]
... Mostly a reaction to getting MSE working on low-power mobile devices using high-power-usage 5g networks
21:12:29 [jernoble]
cpn: lets look at the scoping first; and arrange for jya to walk the group through the design of the API
21:12:57 [sushraja]
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21:13:24 [sushraja]
is there a link to the managed media source proposal ?
21:13:41 [jernoble]
gregwf: I'm working on getStatusForPolicy() but don't have an update today
21:14:34 [jernoble]
cpn: from the chartering perspective we don't appear to be overcommitting ourselves.
21:14:35 [cpn]
https://github.com/w3c/media-source/labels/TPAC-2022-discussion
21:15:08 [jernoble]
... Matt had identified issues (linked above) as the main issues he intended to clean up for the MSE v2 work
21:15:39 [markw_]
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21:15:49 [jernoble]
dale: We on the chrome side don't have the bandwidth to move forward anything that doesn't already have cross-browser buy in
21:16:40 [cpn]
jernoble: it seems we need to determine which are important for v2 and which we could drop
21:17:19 [cpn]
dale: we don't have tests in the spec for promise, also play through gaps is popular, but not something we have bandwidth for
21:17:20 [jernoble]
dale: the items that have already been landed in the spec are those that have already received the most requests for
21:18:56 [cpn]
dale: we're limited on bandwidth for both spec and implementation work
21:19:45 [cpn]
jernoble: something that might help with v2 is to get input from the video developer folks from FOMS, to collect requirements
21:20:10 [cpn]
... so before we drop doing the work, we want to directly involve some of the developers
21:20:40 [cpn]
dale: a lot of the issues were already put forward by them, so seems unfair to go back to ask them to prioritise
21:21:28 [cpn]
jernoble: we could ask at least. for example, something not covered here is something that allows you to disconnect a media source to another media element while maintaining the buffer state
21:21:42 [cpn]
.. it's something i hadn't heard before, but multiple engine authors mentioned it
21:21:50 [cpn]
dale: there is an issue somewhere
21:22:39 [cpn]
cpn: anything from your point of view, mark?
21:23:16 [cpn]
mark: there's too many issues to say, i can do some work but need to narrow it down to things that are already implemented or where there's interest to implement
21:23:50 [cpn]
... we have workers and changetype already implemented and specced. is there anything else in the list planned to implement?
21:24:27 [cpn]
jernoble: i think some things in the list we'd like to roll into the managed media source
21:26:07 [cpn]
dale: we could come up with a proposal and ask in the video-dev slack
21:26:31 [cpn]
mark: we could set a timeframe, label issues as v3
21:27:14 [jernoble]
dale: (in Webex chat): v2 = {changetype, workers, managedmediasource?, maybe 1-2 video-dev requests?} v3={everything else}
21:27:31 [jernoble]
cpn: that seems like a good package of features that could be a good v2
21:28:06 [jernoble]
... Another thing we can do is reach out to the CTA-WAVE community about features they would like in V2
21:29:01 [jernoble]
... ACTION: Identify which issues are related to ManagedMediaSource (jya)
21:29:11 [eric-carlson_]
jean yves (in Webex chat): So this is an explainer for the ManagedMediaSource we would like to propose. It stemmed from https://github.com/w3c/media-source/issues/232#issuecomment-1249781923
21:29:13 [eric-carlson_]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jJ0nse9i3cpE59mhSiq2ZKemCq1B5ZuLQ2UzqigIYLA/edit?usp=sharing
21:29:28 [jernoble]
jya: Unfortunately I have to leave early
21:30:14 [jernoble]
jernoble: Volunteers jya to identify which issues would be covered by MMS
21:31:00 [jernoble]
dale: I volunteer for bringing the smaller issue list to the Video-dev community, after jernoble and jya have pulled in some items covered by MMS into the v2 milestone.
21:31:48 [jernoble]
markw_: Lets keep the v2 label but move all the current items out, and create a new v3 label and attach it to all the previously-v2 item.s
21:32:40 [jernoble]
cpn: If there's anything we think is currently labeled as v2 and is moved out of scope that we apply a new (v3-proposed?) label so as not to lose track
21:33:47 [jernoble]
ACTION: Perform the v2 -> v3-proposed relabeling
21:34:07 [jernoble]
action: Identify which issues are related to ManagedMediaSource (jya)
21:34:08 [ghurlbot]
I created -> issue #319 https://github.com/w3c/media-source/issues/319
21:34:09 [ghurlbot]
but I could not add the "action" label.
21:34:09 [ghurlbot]
That probably means I don't have push permission on w3c/media-source.
21:37:15 [cpn]
Topic: Media Session API
21:37:41 [markw_]
Here is the new V2 milestone: https://github.com/w3c/media-source/milestone/8
21:37:43 [cpn]
youenn: Since last meeting, Tommy and I have gone through the open issues, mark them as enhancement as P1 or ready for PR
21:37:50 [cpn]
... we have some issues where we're not sure
21:38:08 [cpn]
... We might copy the MSE milestone approach
21:38:27 [cpn]
... We want some feedback on the selection, so wondering about the best approach
21:38:50 [cpn]
... We're close to having a selection
21:40:32 [cpn]
... You identified a few issues needing prioritisation discussion?
21:40:50 [cpn]
youennf: Yes, the longer we wait on some of these, the harder they become to ship
21:41:12 [cpn]
... Is there consensus from user agents that we should tackle them sooner rather than later?
21:41:25 [cpn]
... One issue involves a larger change, #228
21:41:25 [ghurlbot]
https://github.com/w3c/media-source/issues/228 -> Pull Request 228 [closed] Separate Definitions section from Introduction (saschanaz)
21:41:56 [cpn]
... We could start a discussion on each issue, but we want to know what the priority is
21:43:05 [cpn]
cpn: If we have the right people here we could look at the prioritisation, without going into detail
21:43:33 [cpn]
youennf: Same-origin restrictions, we could do the same with media session. Is there any interest from Chrome and Mozilla to work on that?
21:43:45 [cpn]
... The two first issues relate to iframes, so in the same buckegt
21:44:52 [cpn]
tommy: from Chrome point of view, I don't think we have plans to implement those. if there's developer feedback to say they're v1 worthy, we could look at it
21:45:27 [cpn]
youennf: difficult to restrict if only one browser is doing it. this is why i'm cautious, and leaving to v2 would make it harder
21:45:55 [cpn]
... so i'd be tempted to mark the feature policy integration as v1, then hope that user agents can synchronize on shipping that
21:46:30 [cpn]
... so marking 221 is good? and 194, which is more feature level, we could leave to v2?
21:46:43 [cpn]
tommy: seems good, 194 is an enhancement so less backwards compatibility risk
21:47:14 [cpn]
youennf: 228 was being pushed by Chrome, can you check if there's still interest to make the change and handle the backwards compatibility issues?
21:47:27 [cpn]
tommy: i'll check with francois, to be sure
21:47:40 [cpn]
... seems like a developer ergonomics issue
21:47:56 [cpn]
youennf: that's all I wanted to talk about on media session
21:49:07 [Xiaohan]
[I have questions on EME at the end if we still have time]
21:49:19 [cpn]
Topic: EME
21:50:15 [cpn]
xaiohan: We have issues tagged as v2 and v2-bugfixes in EME. Do we still need to triage those for EME v2?
21:50:50 [Xiaohan]
EME v2 issues: https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/milestone/5
21:51:09 [Xiaohan]
EME v2 bugfixes: https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/milestone/6
21:51:24 [cpn]
cpn: last time we discussed not pursuing the existing session API
21:51:49 [cpn]
gregfreedman: are there issues that you want to get in FWPD?
21:52:12 [cpn]
xiaohan: I can look to see if there's anything important. If we don't think those are important for EME v2, we can tag them as v3
21:52:35 [cpn]
gregfreedman: We can talk later
21:53:11 [cpn]
xiaohan: Another issue related to EME storage, there's also DOM storage, a clear-site-data header that sites can set. How should EME persistent data behave?
21:53:12 [markw_]
Both the milestones have been renamed: V3 and V3BugFixes. We can move any that we intend to address in V2 to the new V2 milestone.
21:53:21 [cpn]
xiaohan: I'll file an issue on that
21:59:12 [cpn]
cpn: i'd suggest only re-label issues if we need to reprioritise. The main thing is getting the feature additions for v2 FPWD
22:02:03 [cpn]
Topic: TPAC planning
22:02:26 [cpn]
cpn: TPAC is in September, would be good to know if you'd plan to travel
22:02:44 [cpn]
.. I'll raise a GitHub issue, please give an indication there
22:02:50 [cpn]
[adjourned]
22:03:16 [cpn]
rrsagent, draft minutes
22:03:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/14-mediawg-minutes.html cpn
22:06:13 [tidoust]
i/cpn: Topics for this meeting/scribe+ jernoble
22:06:38 [tidoust]
i/cpn: Topics for this meeting/Topic: Media Source Extensions v2
22:06:40 [tidoust]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
22:06:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/14-mediawg-minutes.html tidoust
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