IRC log of coga on 2023-03-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:05:20 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/03/14-coga-irc
17:05:25 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
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Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
17:05:56 [JohnRochford]
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17:05:57 [jeanne]
chair: Julie
17:06:04 [JohnRochford]
present+
17:06:04 [jeanne]
present+
17:06:05 [EA]
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17:06:05 [kb]
present+
17:06:11 [EA]
Present+
17:06:32 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:06:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/14-coga-minutes.html jeanne
17:07:10 [jeanne]
scribe+ jeanne
17:10:34 [jeanne]
Topic: Update from AG meeting yesterday
17:10:48 [jeanne]
Julie: How was the AG all-day meeting
17:14:01 [jeanne]
jeanne: The meeting was pretty good. We did make progress, but not as much progress as we wanted.
17:17:24 [Jan_]
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17:17:36 [jeanne]
... we aren't going to change what we are doing now. We didn't make a decision on conformance. There was good support for "stacked outcomes" where outcomes build on each other.
17:18:56 [julierawe]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JKJ32DK_A82ahsQ_k0RVPc-ZYpX5uuKtuGOLdo2OqyY/edit#heading=h.ofc72f1ys4p0
17:19:07 [jeanne]
Topic: What to work on next
17:19:18 [jeanne]
Julie: Should we work on an assertion?
17:20:26 [jeanne]
Jeanne: I think it would help to have a built out assertion as an example. Right now, there aren't any built out examples.
17:20:33 [EA]
q+
17:21:00 [jeanne]
Julie: My concern is that if we build an assertion, people would give up on detailed tests and just rely on an assertion.
17:22:04 [jeanne]
John: I looked up assertion and saw some examples online. Do we want to create our own or piggy-back on others?
17:23:06 [jeanne]
Julie: We acknowledge in a plain language assertion that there is a large body of reserach that we are drawing from from a variety of countries
17:24:01 [jeanne]
EA: If we don't create an assertion, otherwise someone else could do one that is difficult to understand. If we do it, we can do it well.
17:24:22 [jeanne]
Julie: Let's try it.
17:24:49 [jeanne]
Topic: Clear Language Assertion
17:25:29 [jeanne]
Clear Language Working Draft -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JKJ32DK_A82ahsQ_k0RVPc-ZYpX5uuKtuGOLdo2OqyY/
17:25:33 [JohnRochford]
https://www.plainlanguage.gov/resources/articles/revisiting-plain-language/
17:27:15 [JohnRochford]
https://formatically.com/how-to-write-assertions
17:29:31 [jeanne]
Jeanne: I like the part about Back it All Up, and Be Clear and Concise
17:30:14 [JohnRochford]
http://www.administrativerules.org/archive/2006/summer/conference/info/presentations/20060710-2pm-Plain_Language.pdf
17:30:20 [jeanne]
Julie: A plain language review was conducted
17:30:29 [jeanne]
Jeanne: And the suggestions were implemented
17:34:21 [jeanne]
Julie: I think we want to make companies make a statement that they did a plain language review.
17:34:57 [jeanne]
JohnR: For example, 20% of our employees are trained in plain language.
17:35:23 [jeanne]
EA: Could we say that we follow these guideline published by the EU?
17:35:49 [jeanne]
JohnR: How can they prove it?
17:36:23 [jeanne]
EA: They can't. They keep them in a file drawer and have to bring them out and show they did them.
17:36:56 [jeanne]
JohnK: In the US, we have to do it for US federal law, and make an attestation that we followed it.
17:37:51 [jeanne]
Julie: If we said X% of our employees have received a training?
17:38:31 [jeanne]
EA: There is a way that we can link to the rules they used. Probably every country has plain language guidelines.
17:39:06 [jeanne]
John: Is it present Yes/No? Is there a link to the plain language guidelines that this entity is following?
17:39:55 [jeanne]
Jan: +1 to JohnR. It would be difficult to prove that a tranining happened. But we can say "the resources are available in the company.
17:40:22 [EA]
+1 to JohnR's idea as well
17:40:43 [jeanne]
Julie: In my website, the engineers are not content creators, would they be required to be trained or know that the resources exist?
17:41:09 [jeanne]
Jan: Would they ever know that the repository of information exists?
17:42:00 [jeanne]
... large companies have global policies and there is training so that people know they exist.
17:42:54 [jeanne]
JohnR: I like that we are effective with the least amount of burden. It makes it more likely that people will do it.
17:43:25 [jeanne]
Jan: "Here are our resources, and internally, they are reminded annually where they are located."
17:43:52 [jeanne]
... THey also should be available to vendors, so third party developers of content know about them and use them.
17:44:14 [jeanne]
... and optionally they should link to them
17:44:46 [jeanne]
Julie: Do they boil down to bullets:
17:46:10 [jeanne]
... We assert that we have a link to plain language resources on our employee training.
17:47:11 [jeanne]
Jan: Companies have required training. Code of conduct, security training, and everyone has to take it. As a part of their global annual training, here is where our guidelines are and available to employees.
17:47:33 [jeanne]
q+ to suggest we assert plain language review
17:48:58 [jeanne]
Julie: I want to see some more teeth in it. Just having a link to a website is apt to be ignored.
17:49:31 [jeanne]
[suggestions for bronze, silver, gold (or stacked outcomes)]
17:50:07 [jeanne]
ack ea
17:52:02 [jeanne]
EA: When the site has to use complex language, that a glossary is included..
17:52:29 [jeanne]
JohnR: Or a plain language summary.
17:52:49 [jeanne]
Jeanne: THose are measurable, so they can be addressed elsewhere.
17:53:23 [jeanne]
JohnR: We assert we do 3 of these X things.
17:57:23 [jeanne]
Bronze: We assert that we have a link to a plain-language guideline in our employee resources. [INSERT LINK HERE]
17:57:23 [jeanne]
Bronze: We assert our editorial guidelines include plain language XYZ.
17:57:23 [jeanne]
Bronze: We assert we include plain-language summaries at the top of of XYZ
17:57:23 [jeanne]
Silver: We assert this plain-language guideline is part of our organization’s annual training.
17:57:25 [jeanne]
Gold: We assert X% of our content creators have received training in plain-language guidelines.
17:57:25 [jeanne]
Gold: We assert X% of our pages have been reviewed by an editor trained in plain language.
17:59:01 [jeanne]
JohnR: We could come up with a system with a weighting process of what is the most important
17:59:35 [jeanne]
EA: For example, at a university, most of the pages are made by 3rd parties. THey couldn't do it.
18:00:25 [jeanne]
Julie: Think about it next week.
18:00:30 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:00:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/14-coga-minutes.html jeanne
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