17:05:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
17:05:32 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-rdf-star-irc
17:05:32 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:05:33 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), gkellogg_
17:05:41 <AndyS> present+
17:05:43 <gtw> present+
17:05:44 <Doerthe> Doerthe has joined #rdf-star
17:05:45 <gkellogg_> prseent+
17:05:45 <pfps> present+
17:05:50 <ktk> present+
17:05:55 <enrico> present+
17:05:55 <olaf> present+
17:05:56 <Doerthe> present+
17:05:59 <Timothe> present+
17:06:06 <Dominik_T> present+
17:06:07 <gkellogg_> zakim, who's here?
17:06:08 <Zakim> Present: AndyS, gtw, pfps, ktk, enrico, olaf, Doerthe, Timothe, Dominik_T
17:06:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see Doerthe, RRSAgent, Zakim, Dominik_T, TallTed, olaf, remiceres, enrico, pfps, gkellogg_, AndyS, VladimirAlexiev, ghurlbot, csarven, Tpt, Timothe, ktk, gtw, rhiaro,
17:06:10 <Zakim> ... agendabot, pchampin
17:06:18 <AndyS> present+ gkellogg_
17:06:34 <gkellogg_> meeting: RDF-star Working Group
17:06:40 <gkellogg_> chair: ktk
17:06:57 <AndyS> scribe: AndyS
17:07:06 <TallTed> present+
17:07:09 <TallTed> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2023Feb/0153.html
17:07:09 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:07:09 <agendabot> agenda+ Pick scribe
17:07:09 <agendabot> agenda+ Approve last week's minutes: <https://www.w3.org/2023/02/16-rdf-star-minutes.html>
17:07:09 <agendabot> agenda+ Quick status update of ongoing activities
17:07:09 <agendabot> agenda+ Discussion: Semantic predication
17:07:11 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB (time permitting)
17:07:17 <AndyS> Agenda : https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2023Feb/0153.html
17:07:17 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:07:17 <agendabot> agenda+ Pick scribe
17:07:18 <agendabot> agenda+ Approve last week's minutes: <https://www.w3.org/2023/02/16-rdf-star-minutes.html>
17:07:21 <agendabot> agenda+ Quick status update of ongoing activities
17:07:23 <agendabot> agenda+ Discussion: Semantic predication
17:07:26 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB (time permitting)
17:08:36 <AndyS> zakim, agenda?
17:08:36 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
17:08:37 <Zakim> 1. Pick scribe [from agendabot]
17:08:37 <Zakim> 2. Approve last week's minutes: <https://www.w3.org/2023/02/16-rdf-star-minutes.html> [from agendabot]
17:08:37 <Zakim> 3. Quick status update of ongoing activities [from agendabot]
17:08:38 <Zakim> 4. Discussion: Semantic predication [from agendabot]
17:08:38 <Zakim> 5. AOB (time permitting) [from agendabot]
17:08:52 <AndyS> zakim, close 1
17:08:52 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close 1', AndyS
17:09:07 <ktk> ACTION: chairs to contact I18N group to start discussion.
<ghurlbot> Created (with some help) -> action #31 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/31
17:09:22 <TallTed> Zakim, next agendum
17:09:22 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Pick scribe -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:09:36 <TallTed> Zakim, next agendum
17:09:36 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, TallTed
17:09:39 <gkellogg_> zakim, agendu 2
17:09:39 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agendu 2', gkellogg_
17:09:45 <gkellogg_> zakim, agendum 2
17:09:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agendum 2', gkellogg_
17:09:59 <ktk> propose to accept minutes
17:10:01 <AndyS> AndyS: I'll scribe.
17:10:04 <TallTed> Zakim, close agendum 1
17:10:04 <Zakim> agendum 1, Pick scribe, closed
17:10:05 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:10:05 <Zakim> 2. Approve last week's minutes
17:10:22 <AndyS> zakim, next agendum
17:10:22 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Approve last week's minutes
<pchampin> <https://www.w3.org/2023/02/16-rdf-star-minutes.html>
17:10:41 <AndyS> ktk: Minutes accepted
17:10:49 <AndyS> zakim, next agendum
17:10:49 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, AndyS
<pchampin> Topic: Improving the WG process
17:11:20 <AndyS> pfps: WG processes should be regularized.
17:11:28 <gkellogg_> q+
17:11:56 <AndyS> gkellogg_: There is a github project but isn't getting used.
17:11:59 <pfps> q+
17:12:09 <AndyS> ... hard to keep track of all GH repos
17:12:28 <AndyS> ... pfps suggested using WG repo for WG issues.
17:12:33 <TallTed> q+
17:12:38 <pfps> q-
17:13:20 <AndyS> ack gkellogg_
17:13:27 <AndyS> ack TallTed
17:13:49 <pfps> q+
17:13:52 <AndyS> TallTed: please summarise the items you gave
17:14:22 <AndyS> ... chairs could put state in the agenda, and rotate eachmeeting so nothing gets lost
17:14:33 <pfps> my comments on agenda and minutes are at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2023Feb/0155.html
17:14:39 <gkellogg_> q+ to propose that we normalize the use of the calendar for setting the agenda and reference to meeting minutes
17:15:36 <AndyS> ack pfps
17:16:21 <AndyS> pfps: issue is finding the bits and pieces - one place to go.
17:16:22 <TallTed> s/please summarise the items you gave/the chairs could please create a boilerplate agenda, to be populated with list items for each document/repository, to be rotated as we make progress through those items/
17:16:42 <AndyS> ... agenda is appearing on the day, not 24 hours before meeting
17:17:14 <TallTed> +1 to agenda email being sent earlier would be better. calendar is generally best holding a link to that email, rather than a complete agenda
17:17:32 <AndyS> q?
17:17:32 <TallTed> q+
17:17:48 <pfps> q+ about working group activities
17:17:51 <AndyS> ack gkellogg_
17:17:51 <Zakim> gkellogg_, you wanted to propose that we normalize the use of the calendar for setting the agenda and reference to meeting minutes
17:17:53 <gkellogg_> https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/rdf-star
17:18:14 <AndyS> gkellogg_: We have a home page https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/rdf-star
17:18:25 <gkellogg_> https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/8a431cda-d732-4c77-a896-be3a6e4a0028/20230223T120000
17:18:31 <AndyS> ... each meeting, past and upcoming events
17:18:42 <AndyS> ... with agenda - agendabot help.
17:18:42 <pfps> my concern about the calendar is that many meetings don't have agenda in them
17:19:45 <AndyS> ... shoudl use GH to see the state of the many doc repos
17:20:03 <AndyS> s/should/shoudl/
17:20:41 <AndyS> ... not sure how search across minutes is gone
17:20:47 <AndyS> s/gone/done/
17:20:49 <Timothe> q+
17:22:30 <AndyS> pfps: link to minutes
17:22:37 <AndyS> ... searching
17:22:46 <AndyS> ack TallTed
17:22:52 <pfps> minutes at https://www.w3.org/services/meeting-minutes?channel=rdf-star&num=200
17:22:57 <AndyS> Tallted: please use the queue
17:23:43 <pfps> agreed queue discipline is a good idea (and I am a prime offender)
17:23:51 <AndyS> ... suggest one README
17:24:03 <AndyS> ack Timothe
17:24:29 <TallTed> s/suggest one README/suggest one README with all WG details, to which all other repo READMEs link/
17:24:33 <AndyS> Timothe: for the agenda - projectbot for rdf-star
17:24:35 <pfps> q+ to say that so far we have beeen discussing agenda communication, but there is also the problem of controlling technical activities of the working group
17:24:47 <AndyS> ... must urgent issues
17:24:53 <AndyS> q?
17:24:54 <gkellogg_> Group dashboard: https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20
17:25:02 <AndyS> ack pfps
17:25:02 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to say that so far we have beeen discussing agenda communication, but there is also the problem of controlling technical activities of the working group
17:25:14 <TallTed> q+
17:25:57 <AndyS> TallTed: what is problem you (pfps) see?
17:26:13 <AndyS> pfps: implied WG work in docs.
17:26:49 <AndyS> q+
17:26:59 <AndyS> ack TallTed
17:27:41 <AndyS> pfps: concerned that the GH issues process will not work.
17:27:46 <AndyS> ack AndyS
17:28:00 <gkellogg_> scribe+
17:28:16 <gkellogg_> AndyS: Don't think the group will come to consensus on this topic.
17:28:20 <gkellogg_> scribe-
17:28:24 <AndyS> ktk: Chairs informed - will bring back a proposal
17:28:25 <AndyS> zakim, take up next agendum
17:28:25 <pchampin> Topic: Different semantics of quoted triples
17:28:47 <AndyS> enrico: Summary ...
17:29:13 <gkellogg_> zakim, next agendum
17:29:13 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, gkellogg_
17:29:21 <AndyS> ... use cases all fall into 3 classes : syntactic, semantic and modal.
17:29:29 <gkellogg_> zakim, close agendum 3
17:29:29 <Zakim> agendum 3, Quick status update of ongoing activities, closed
17:29:30 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:29:30 <Zakim> 4. Discussion: Semantic predication [from agendabot]
17:30:17 <ora> ora has joined #rdf-star
17:30:17 <AndyS> ... semantic ?
17:30:23 <ora> present+
17:30:30 <ora> Sorry I was late. :-(
17:30:37 <AndyS> ... syntax: <<>> is just a triple
17:31:27 <AndyS> ... not events. meta dat acan be able the event or the triple - different use cases.
17:31:45 <TallTed> s/dat acan/data can/
17:32:08 <TallTed> s/able the event/about the event/
17:33:00 <AndyS> ... reified triple is instance of a resource for the event. Model predications.
17:33:20 <Timothe> q+
17:33:27 <AndyS> ... concequences:
17:33:56 <AndyS> ... semantic predication - asserts triple, is transparent. Is true as an event.
17:35:09 <AndyS> ... syntax predication - from CG - non-transparent/transparent -> instance of "syntax triple"
17:35:42 <AndyS> s/concequences/consequences/
17:36:04 <AndyS> ... different syntax for two cases.
17:36:20 <AndyS> ... a quoting operation
17:37:45 <AndyS> ... original 3 symbols, now think we can have one syntax and quoting mechanism
17:38:10 <ora> q?
17:38:12 <AndyS> ... I think multiedge is solved in std RDF.
17:39:02 <ktk> ack Timothe
17:39:13 <AndyS> Timothe: semantic and modal difference is that in semantic triple is asserted. Modal case, it is instance of statement class
17:39:20 <TallTed> so there are different entity classes -- events and "things"?
17:40:16 <AndyS> TallTed: asking whether it is two classes
17:40:36 <AndyS> enrico: special syntax for syntactic triples.
17:41:00 <AndyS> ... embedded triples are instance of events e.g. wedding
17:41:45 <AndyS> ... "is recorded" means the triple, other metadata refers to the event
17:44:09 <AndyS> enrico: sem reif - more properties about the event e..g year of enrollement
17:44:56 <AndyS> ... triple of the enrolling, there is an "enrolling" resource
17:45:27 <AndyS> q+ to ask anout relationship to n-ary proprties
17:45:48 <pfps> it's unclear to me whether LPGs can representing anything other than binary predicates either
17:45:48 <ora> q+
17:47:36 <AndyS> ack andyS
17:47:37 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask anout relationship to n-ary proprties
17:49:11 <AndyS> ack ora
17:50:13 <AndyS> ora: example - university - KG of classes, faculty members, publications.
17:50:15 <ktk> q+
17:50:28 <AndyS> ... is it a snapshot in time or a historical record?
17:50:52 <AndyS> .. e.g. adjunct professor becomes full professor
17:51:54 <AndyS> ... plain RDF - need a have something in the model that abales and expects this change
17:52:55 <AndyS> enrico : not just time and space
17:53:11 <AndyS> ora: also when was this triple added to the KG
17:53:45 <AndyS> enrico: many systems have a separate metamodel
17:54:43 <AndyS> ktk: we do event modelling in RDF makes "now" hard to express. RDF-star enable adding unplanned extra information.
17:55:28 <AndyS> rrsagent, please publish minutes
17:55:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-rdf-star-minutes.html AndyS
<pchampin> Topic: AOB
17:57:35 <AndyS> ora: did reach out to I18N to find out how to coordinate
17:57:46 <gkellogg_> Regrets for next two meetings
17:57:48 <olaf> olaf has left #rdf-star
17:57:49 <AndyS> ktk: next meeting - next week, same time.
17:58:01 <AndyS> zakim, end meeting
17:58:01 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been AndyS, gtw, pfps, ktk, enrico, olaf, Doerthe, Timothe, Dominik_T, gkellogg_, TallTed, ora
17:58:03 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:58:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-rdf-star-minutes.html Zakim
17:58:10 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, AndyS; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
17:58:11 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-star
17:58:29 <AndyS> rrsagent, please excuse us
17:58:29 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-rdf-star-actions.rdf :
17:58:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: chairs to contact I18N group to start discussion. [1]
17:58:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-rdf-star-irc#T17-09-07
<pchampin> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/02/16-rdf-star-minutes.html
<pchampin> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/03/02-rdf-star-minutes.html