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14:37:49 <tzviya> Zakim, start the meeting
14:37:50 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:37:52 <Zakim> Meeting: Positive Work Environment CG
14:37:56 <tzviya> Date: 2023-02-14
14:38:03 <tzviya> chair: Wendy
14:39:00 <tzviya> Agenda+ Inclusion Fund for TPAC 2023
14:39:00 <tzviya> Agenda+ Running Better Meetings Training logistics review
14:39:00 <tzviya> Agenda+ Equity CG announced
14:39:00 <tzviya> Agenda+ Open TPAC issues
14:39:01 <tzviya> Agenda+ Revisit decision about changing name to CPC
14:39:01 <tzviya> Agenda+ open PRs and issues
14:39:01 <tzviya> Agenda+ AOB
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15:01:44 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:01:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/14-pwe-minutes.html dbooth
15:02:21 <dbooth> present+
15:02:31 <cwilso> present+
15:02:36 <wendyreid> present+
15:02:39 <uxjennifer> present+
15:02:39 <tzviya> present+
15:03:40 <sheila> sheila has joined #pwe
15:04:08 <cwilso> scibe+
15:04:24 <wendyreid> scribe+ cwilso
15:04:43 <cwilso> s/scibe+//
15:05:00 <cwilso> zakim, take up agendum 1
15:05:00 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Inclusion Fund for TPAC 2023 -- taken up [from tzviya]
15:05:07 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/PWETF/issues/205
15:05:45 <cwilso> wendy: this is our annual task; hopefully will take less time this year since we created a template last year.
15:06:17 <cwilso> ...we need to figure out the dates - TPAC is mid September, we need to backtrack far enough for people to be granted and receive the funds.
15:07:34 <cwilso> jen: thanks for doing this last year - it was very helpful, and having a buddy helped
15:08:10 <tzviya> q+
15:08:15 <wendyreid> ack tzviya
15:08:16 <cwilso> ...I would definitely encourage providing a support person if desired
15:08:53 <cwilso> tzviya: we should check with Coralie (I think) what our budget is; we tend to fundraise a year in the future.  I'll take on checking.
15:09:16 <cwilso> ... also when they are planning on announcing registration.
15:09:25 <tzviya> +1 to doing this at the AC meeting
15:09:47 <cwilso> wendy: should definitely try to get out funding ask as well
15:10:22 <cwilso> ... we got a lot of spam last time, too - probably 75% of the submissions were spam
15:10:24 <uxjennifer> q+
15:10:30 <wendyreid> ack uxjennifer
15:10:57 <tzviya> q+
15:11:19 <wendyreid> ack tzviya
15:11:24 <cwilso> jen: I didn't know about the scholarship until I was told by someone.  Socializing it would be good; relying on the AC rep to pass it on is not necessarily successful.
15:11:38 <wendyreid> q+
15:11:53 <cwilso> tzviya: we wrote up a blog post; unfortunately, it got buried at the end of another blog post rather than posted separately.
15:12:03 <cwilso> ... definitely want to get this out with registration.
15:12:05 <uxjennifer> q+
15:12:05 <wendyreid> ack wendyreid
15:12:11 <cwilso> ack uxj
15:12:39 <cwilso> wendy: encouraging chairs to mention this when they mention TPAC registration is a good idea, too.
15:12:49 <sheila> I wonder if we could also do a PSA about this at the AC meeting in May?
15:12:54 <dbooth> +1 to the idea of chairs mentioning it, so that people learn about it early enough
15:12:58 <wendyreid> ack uxjennifer
15:13:16 <cwilso> jen: I would never have even thought about this until I was personally approached.
15:14:03 <cwilso> ...reaching out to newcomers would be really helpful
15:14:39 <cwilso> wendy: hard for chairs to know peoples' situations, but we should definitely encourage chairs to reach out to their group members.
15:14:49 <npd> that's good advice to remind chairs; as a chair I didn't think to do that last year and I think it might have helped our group!
15:14:56 <cwilso> zakim, take up agenda 2
15:14:56 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Running Better Meetings Training logistics review -- taken up [from tzviya]
15:15:51 <cwilso> wendy: we're going ahead with this training session; the first session is recorded, and we ask attendees to watch it; the second session is live, and we'll deal with time zones, etc.
15:16:11 <cwilso> ...I can take on recording the first session and captioning, etc.
15:16:29 <cwilso> tzviya: we talked about doing this before the AC meeting, but I don't know if that's crucial.
15:16:42 <cwilso> ... would be nice to have a breakout at the AC meeting
15:17:09 <uxjennifer> q+
15:17:16 <wendyreid> ack uxjennifer
15:17:21 <npd> present+
15:17:40 <cwilso> jen: finally started attending some other WGs and CGs, and they're all so different in process and structure.
15:17:44 <cwilso> q+
15:17:59 <cwilso> ...is there any way to ensure chairs get this training?
15:18:20 <dbooth> Is there a URL for draft content for "Running Better Meetings"?  I'm looking in https://github.com/w3c/PWETF and don't immediately see it.
15:18:26 <cwilso> ...frequently there's no transcript, no IRC, etc...
15:19:17 <dbooth> chris: This was feedback that I took from TPAC: anyone new had a hard time fitting into groups, without knowing the technology used.
15:19:28 <dbooth> ... How to take notes, queuing, etc.
15:19:32 <wendyreid> scribe+ dbooth
15:19:50 <dbooth> ... One challenge: Some had different expecations for how convos would run.
15:20:14 <dbooth> ... hard to track multiple conversations.
15:20:27 <dbooth> ... One colleague thought side conversations were helpful.
15:20:29 <tzviya> q+
15:20:34 <wendyreid> ack cwilso
15:20:37 <wendyreid> ack tzviya
15:20:51 <npd> +1 that it's hard to get unanimous views on how/what to use for running a meeting
15:20:58 <npd> (I'm one of those side conversation people)
15:21:15 <cwilso> tzviya: there are many aspects of this; the process CG tried to write something about tooling, I know Michael Cooper is looking at this also.
15:21:27 <uxjennifer> One group I attended didn't track attendance. They had a Google doc, but I didn't have access to it, to track comments, so I didn't know how to participate and didn't want to derail the meeting.
15:22:06 <cwilso> ... getting tools that work for a group can be challenging.  Sometimes we can't dictate what every group uses, but we can ask that groups don't use tools that are inAccessible.
15:22:28 <cwilso> ... and tools that are not available
15:22:52 <cwilso> wendy: I know I spend a lot of time talking about tools.
15:23:29 <uxjennifer> It could be helpful to have a list of things that need to be done in a group: attendance, queueing for questions, etc. and make sure each group has a process for that and asking for questions about process.
15:23:31 <cwilso> tzviya: we should just make sure that chairs are given the message "be clear about the tooling"
15:23:39 <cwilso> zakim, take up agendum 3
15:23:39 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Equity CG announced -- taken up [from tzviya]
15:23:42 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/community/equity/
15:24:33 <cwilso> jen: will restart meetings, etc shortly
15:24:45 <cwilso> q+
15:25:11 <cwilso> ...if there's anything I need to do differently, please let me knopw
15:25:17 <cwilso> a/knopw/know
15:25:48 <wendyreid> ack cwilso
15:25:50 <cwilso> ...hope to see some of you there.
15:26:00 <sheila> q+
15:26:02 <dbooth> chris: THere's no chair listed.
15:26:26 <dbooth> ... I think anyone can set the chair until it's set, then only the chair can set it.
15:26:50 <cwilso> q+ to address sensitivity
15:27:17 <wendyreid> ack sheila
15:27:23 <npd> would be interesting to experiment with a group that doesn't have a chair, although I believe the Process insists on it
15:27:44 <cwilso> sheila: thanks - curious to know scope of the equity group
15:28:53 <cwilso> jen: more about outcomes of W3C than processes
15:28:56 <wendyreid> ack cwilso
15:28:56 <Zakim> cwilso, you wanted to address sensitivity
15:30:32 <sheila> will definitely need to do some norm-setting around collaborative decision-making, in the absence of a chair
15:30:43 <cwilso> wendy: so, new CG.  please join if you're interested.
15:30:48 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/PWETF/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3ATPAC
15:30:49 <cwilso> zakim, take up agendum 4
15:30:49 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Open TPAC issues -- taken up [from tzviya]
15:30:59 <npd> +1 for figuring out with the group a better sense of what we mean by equity in the horizontal review process
15:31:25 <cwilso> wendy: first topic is childcare.  I note it's mentioned in the announcement, which is a huge deal
15:32:20 <cwilso> ...second was sensory rooms/quiet rooms.
15:32:28 <cwilso> ... any suggestions?
15:32:32 <dbooth> q+ to ask if food amenities might cause people to com ein for other reasons
15:32:43 <wendyreid> ack dbooth
15:32:43 <Zakim> dbooth, you wanted to ask if food amenities might cause people to com ein for other reasons
15:32:46 <cwilso> tzviya: would be helpful to have some consensus on this.
15:33:00 <cwilso> david: I wonder if providing food might be counterproductive.
15:33:04 <cwilso> +1
15:33:25 <cwilso> q+
15:33:29 <wendyreid> ack cwilso
15:33:42 <npd> q+
15:33:45 <uxjennifer> sometimes it is hard to access the snacks
15:33:58 <uxjennifer> q+
15:33:58 <dbooth> chris: In a conf often just need a quiet place.
15:34:22 <dbooth> ... Not having food, conversations, figget spinners migt be better.  They might be distractions.
15:34:33 <dbooth> ... Suggest a sign saying "Please no chat here"
15:34:34 <tzviya> +1 to no conversations in this space
15:34:51 <dbooth> ... We have signs like that in the google nap rooms.
15:35:07 <wendyreid> ack npd
15:35:12 <dbooth> ... Sign of "This is for quiet space" might be enough
15:35:47 <cwilso> nick: +1 on quiet.  It would be tempting.
15:36:02 <cwilso> ...I wouldn't choose a room where people are eating and drinking, either.
15:36:06 <wendyreid> ack uxjennifer
15:36:09 <sheila> +1 on concerns about food/drink for COVID reasons
15:36:35 <cwilso> jen: +1 to all.  it was nice to have the hotel room right there for me.
15:36:58 <cwilso> +1 to Jen.  I typically disappear at least once a day for 15 mins of deco time.
15:37:22 <npd> yeah, many people use hotel rooms specifically for getting away from the social overwhelmed feeling, but not everyone will have a hotel room in the same building
15:37:34 <cwilso> +1 npd
15:37:48 <cwilso> jen: citrus/scents are also nice
15:37:50 <dbooth> +1 to avoiding food in the room, for covid reasons
15:37:54 <tzviya> q+ to ask about consensus
15:37:59 <wendyreid> ack tzviya
15:37:59 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to ask about consensus
15:38:15 <cwilso> tzviya: do we have general consensus on having quiet room signs?
15:38:16 <dbooth> +1 to quiet room
15:38:19 <cwilso> +1
15:38:44 <uxjennifer> note scents are sensitive -- some may have migraines and such, so it's key to keep it to the individual who needs to think of their own.
15:39:04 <npd> +1 to quiet room. and using "quiet room" might actually make the concept more readily understandable to more participants
15:39:23 <wendyreid> zakim, next topic
15:39:23 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next topic', wendyreid
15:39:27 <wendyreid> zakim, next item
15:39:27 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Inclusion Fund for TPAC 2023 -- taken up [from tzviya]
15:39:32 <cwilso> zakim, take up agendum 5
15:39:32 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Revisit decision about changing name to CPC -- taken up [from tzviya]
15:40:35 <cwilso> wendy: we wanted to revisit the decision about changing the name.  We've socialized CEPC quite a bit.  We'd have to resocialize the name.  Also, I don't think we should give up the idea of having ethics in the code.
15:41:01 <dbooth> q+ to suggest that if the groups wants to include ethics, that a visible placeholder be put into the doc
15:41:06 <cwilso> q+
15:41:07 <wendyreid> ack dbooth
15:41:08 <Zakim> dbooth, you wanted to suggest that if the groups wants to include ethics, that a visible placeholder be put into the doc
15:41:30 <tzviya> q+ to respond to dbooth
15:41:39 <wendyreid> ack cwilso
15:41:43 <npd> q+ to like the name, but also that ethics is not enforced in the same way
15:41:54 <cwilso> david: I'm sort of neutral - I think it would be better to address ethics in a separate document - but at least maybe put in a placeholder
15:42:21 <cwilso> tzviya: the document really needs to be in a final state, so we probably shouldn't have placeholders - it might have legal implications.
15:42:25 <cwilso> q+
15:42:45 <wendyreid> ack tzviya
15:42:45 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to respond to dbooth
15:42:52 <wendyreid> ack nick
15:42:55 <wendyreid> ack npd
15:42:55 <Zakim> npd, you wanted to like the name, but also that ethics is not enforced in the same way
15:43:13 <cwilso> ...while we don't strictly list things that are ethics, I'm not concerned enough that it's not obvious.
15:43:32 <cwilso> nick: if there are ethics in the document, I don't think those are handled by a chair in the moment.
15:44:00 <cwilso> ...I'm not sure I could interrupt a meeting in the moment, "that's not Sustainable" or the like...
15:44:10 <dbooth> q+ to say if the document is not complete -- lacks ethics -- then it should not bill itself that way.
15:44:11 <wendyreid> ack cwilso
15:44:14 <cwilso> ...seems like a separate direciton
15:44:32 <tzviya> s/direciton/direction
15:45:06 <tzviya> q+ to say I prefer CoC to CPC
15:45:10 <dbooth> chris: Not strongly pushing to change the name.  The point of it being socialized is strong.  Need to socialize it w every new person.  That's where I feel like "Code of Conduct" is a well socialized concept, not a surpirce.
15:45:16 <tzviya> +1 to cwilso
15:45:41 <dbooth> ... Introducing it as CEPC referring to it as "Code of Condct".
15:46:31 <dbooth> ... Other side, ethics: Getting attacked from other areas, such as from other groups, I don't think it belongs in the same place.  Who defines thr right ethics?  Probably not this community group.  They're supposed to be binding.
15:46:47 <dbooth> ... It will leave some stuff in the cold.  Will be a hard convo.
15:47:04 <dbooth> ... Don't want to intro ethics here beause we'll have to define ethics.
15:47:20 <dbooth> ... .Worried it will weaken our ability to deliver on Code of COnduct.
15:47:24 <wendyreid> ack dbooth
15:47:24 <Zakim> dbooth, you wanted to say if the document is not complete -- lacks ethics -- then it should not bill itself that way.
15:48:03 <cwilso> david: I think it's important not to bill itself as something it's not.
15:48:03 <wendyreid> ack tzviya
15:48:03 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to say I prefer CoC to CPC
15:48:40 <cwilso> tzviya: I don't think there's a lot of disagreement.  We probably shouldn't call it CPC - either CEPC or CoC.
15:49:06 <cwilso> ... I'd be comfortable making it CoC.
15:49:08 <cwilso> q+
15:49:11 <npd> I preferred CPC, but I don't have a strong view on it
15:49:20 <wendyreid> ack cwilso
15:49:41 <dbooth> +0 -- I'm neutral about "Code of Conduct" vs "COPC"
15:49:44 <uxjennifer> q+
15:49:52 <sheila> also neutral
15:49:58 <dbooth> Fine with me to rename as "Code of Conduct"
15:49:59 <wendyreid> ack uxjennifer
15:50:42 <cwilso> jen: it's very confusing.  When I first heard CEPC, it was confusing - but then I thought it was awesome.
15:50:57 <cwilso> ...What we really want is more people participating in PWE.
15:51:21 <tzviya> zakim, close item 1
15:51:21 <Zakim> agendum 1, Inclusion Fund for TPAC 2023, closed
15:51:22 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:51:22 <Zakim> 2. Running Better Meetings Training logistics review [from tzviya]
15:51:26 <cwilso> ...we definitely would need to say that we're not removing ethics from the W3C
15:51:27 <cwilso> +1
15:51:31 <tzviya> zakim, close item 2
15:51:31 <Zakim> agendum 2, Running Better Meetings Training logistics review, closed
15:51:32 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:51:32 <Zakim> 3. Equity CG announced [from tzviya]
15:51:45 <cwilso> wendy: part of it would be communication of the change.
15:51:50 <tzviya> zakim, close item 3
15:51:50 <Zakim> agendum 3, Equity CG announced, closed
15:51:51 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:51:51 <Zakim> 5. Revisit decision about changing name to CPC [from tzviya]
15:52:07 <dbooth> q+ to suggest that if there's concern about removal of the word "ethics", a note should be added at the bottom saying it will be in a separate document
15:52:57 <cwilso> david: +1 to acknowledging Ethics is not being abandoned.
15:52:58 <tzviya> ack db
15:52:58 <Zakim> dbooth, you wanted to suggest that if there's concern about removal of the word "ethics", a note should be added at the bottom saying it will be in a separate document
15:52:58 <wendyreid> ack dbooth
15:53:15 <cwilso> q+
15:53:17 <npd> q+
15:53:29 <cwilso> tzviya: I really don't want to include a note in this document
15:53:33 <cwilso> +1
15:53:53 <wendyreid> ack cwilso
15:54:13 <dbooth> I find tzviya's argument convincing also.
15:55:17 <wendyreid> ack npd
15:55:23 <dbooth> chris: I don't think we will ever add "thou shalt be ethical in these ways ..." to the doc.
15:55:57 <cwilso> nick: I still kind of appreciate the "P" in CoPC.
15:56:32 <cwilso> ... it's not "just a code of conduct"
15:56:32 <uxjennifer> q+
15:56:32 <cwilso> ...professional standards, not just ground rules that might get ignored
15:56:53 <wendyreid> ack uxjennifer
15:57:04 <cwilso> s/to the doc/to this document, developed in this CG - there are several other groups working on broader ethical consensus (TAG, AB)
15:57:25 <npd> npd: but no strong objection to any of the change proposals here
15:58:05 <cwilso> jen: I suggested we have a monthly training session for new members.  The Code could be reviewed in that.
15:58:18 <npd> I don't mind considering ethics in this group even if it will need to be reviewed and get consensus from the wider community
15:59:14 <cwilso> wendy: PROPOSAL: we change CEPC to "Code of Conduct".
15:59:18 <tzviya> +1
15:59:19 <cwilso> +1
15:59:23 <uxjennifer> +1
15:59:24 <wendyreid> +1
15:59:25 <dbooth> +0
15:59:33 <npd> +0
15:59:47 <sheila> +0
16:00:33 <dbooth> q+ to say I think i'ts resolved!
16:00:36 <cwilso> wendy: not going to resolve this today.  Will do a PR, and maybe the tone will make us lean one way or another.
16:00:47 <cwilso> tzviya: will also ask others, like Ada and Angele.
16:00:55 <cwilso> s/Angele/Angel
16:01:17 <cwilso> rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/14-pwe-minutes.html cwilso
16:01:57 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:01:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/14-pwe-minutes.html dbooth
16:02:03 <tzviya> rrsagent, make logs public