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16:57:59 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/02/09-rdf-star-irc
16:57:59 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:58:00 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), pchampin
16:58:20 <pfps> I can scribe today
16:58:45 <pchampin> Meeting: RDF-star WG
16:58:48 <pchampin> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/8a431cda-d732-4c77-a896-be3a6e4a0028/20230105T120000
16:58:48 <agendabot> pchampin, sorry, I did not recognize any agenda in https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/8a431cda-d732-4c77-a896-be3a6e4a0028/20230105T120000
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16:58:57 <enrico> present+
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16:59:02 <AndyS> present+
16:59:18 <gkellogg> present+
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16:59:37 <pchampin> Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/02/02-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:59:52 <pchampin> Next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/02/16-rdf-star-minutes.html
17:00:08 <ktk> present+
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17:01:26 <gtw> present+
17:01:33 <olaf> present+
17:01:43 <ora> present+
17:01:47 <rubensworks> present+
17:01:48 <pchampin> present+
17:02:10 <pfps> present+
17:02:13 <pfps> scribe+
17:02:14 <TallTed> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2023Feb/0050.html
17:02:14 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:02:14 <agendabot> agenda+ Scribe
17:02:14 <agendabot> agenda+ Approve previous call's minutes
17:02:14 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda
17:02:14 <agendabot> agenda+ First Public Working Drafts of the "modernized" RDF 1.1 specs: Update
17:02:17 <agendabot> agenda+ RDF vs. RDF-star conformance ("Weak vs. strong", ...): Approval?
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17:02:38 <AZ> present+
17:03:00 <pfps> zakim, next agendum
17:03:00 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Scribe -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:03:09 <pfps> scribe is pfps
17:03:14 <pfps> zakim, next agendum
17:03:15 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, pfps
17:03:37 <pchampin> zakim, close item 1
17:03:37 <Zakim> agendum 1, Scribe, closed
17:03:38 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:03:38 <Zakim> 2. Approve previous call's minutes [from agendabot]
17:03:50 <AndyS> scribe+ pfps
17:03:57 <pchampin> zakim, open item 2
17:03:57 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Approve previous call's minutes -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:04:17 <ora> https://xkcd.com/149/
17:05:02 <pfps> ora: any comments about last call's minutes
17:05:07 <pfps> adrian: ok by me
17:05:08 <gtw> Could we please include the previous week's minutes link in the pre-meeeting email that lists the agenda?
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17:05:27 <Dominik_T> present+
17:05:31 <Doerthe> present+
17:05:38 <pfps> given no objection, minutes are approved
17:05:39 <TallTed> present+
17:05:43 <TallTed> +1 gtw
17:05:47 <pfps> zakim, close item 2
17:05:47 <Zakim> agendum 2, Approve previous call's minutes, closed
17:05:48 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:05:48 <Zakim> 3. Agenda [from agendabot]
17:05:56 <pfps> zakim, next agendum
17:05:56 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Agenda -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:06:04 <pfps> zakim, open item 3
17:06:04 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Agenda -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:07:05 <pfps> this item is about changes to the agenda
17:07:31 <pfps> we should spend a little time getting the use cases started
17:07:39 <ora> q+
17:07:47 <ora> ack ora
17:08:06 <pfps> ora: i would like to understand what you are looking for
17:08:18 <pchampin> scribe+
17:08:33 <TallTed> q+
17:08:43 <pfps> I would like to see use cases that the working group can use
17:09:06 <pfps> i.e., specifics about how the use case should be used
17:09:34 <TallTed> q-
17:09:35 <pfps> ted: use cases provide requirements which can then be checked
17:09:49 <pfps> I have no objections to suggesting this
17:10:11 <pfps> enrico: there should be a classification of use cases as well
17:10:33 <pfps> I'm willing to run a tf on this
17:10:51 <TallTed> `action: nickname to act`
17:11:10 <pfps> action: pfps to set up tf to get use cases set up
17:11:17 <ghurlbot> Created -> action #17 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/17
17:11:28 <pfps> ora: I volunteer
17:12:04 <gkellogg> q+
17:12:12 <ora> ack gkellogg
17:12:30 <pfps> gregg: work on text direction should be done at some time
17:12:48 <pfps> gregg: there is a community group involved
17:12:51 <pchampin> https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/bpmlod
17:13:42 <pfps> gregg: there are issues involved that I do not have expertise in
17:13:56 <pfps> gregg: some semantic expertise needs to be involved
17:13:59 <pchampin> q+
17:14:08 <ora> ack pchampin
17:14:16 <pfps> pchampin: I can help
17:14:29 <AndyS> q+
17:14:56 <pfps> pchampin: this appears to be out of scope according to the charter
17:15:02 <gkellogg> q+
17:15:04 <ora> q+
17:15:07 <ora> ack AndyS
17:15:52 <pfps> andys: a backwards compatible solution would be useful
17:16:00 <ora> ack gkellogg
17:16:00 <TallTed> q+
17:16:33 <pfps> gregg: JSONLD took this up because of input from the internationalization group
17:16:47 <AndyS> q+
17:16:58 <ora> ack ora
17:17:21 <pfps> action: gregg to initiate discussion of text direction
17:17:21 <ghurlbot> Cannot create action. Validation failed. (Invalid user for this repository?)
17:17:30 <pfps> ora: should this be of lower priority for now
17:17:50 <ora> q?
17:17:54 <pfps> gregg: there is a feeling that this cannot be left to too late in the process
17:18:42 <ora> ack TallTed
17:18:59 <pfps> gregg: doing this early will allow for good input from the community
17:19:24 <pfps> tallted: what does backward compatability mean here?
17:19:29 <ora> ack AndyS
17:20:03 <pfps> andys: there are submissions in the area that are backward compatible
17:20:27 <pfps> andys: let's not start everything all at once
17:20:27 <ora> q+
17:20:36 <ora> ack ora
17:21:13 <pfps> ora: we might be able to split into task forces, which allows people to concentrate on what they are interested in
17:21:42 <pfps> ora: smaller groups are more productive
17:21:55 <ktk> q+
17:22:00 <pfps> ora: the groups can report back
17:22:09 <ora> ack ktk
17:22:43 <pfps> adrian: there are a few things that are mechanical, e.g., FPWD
17:23:03 <ora> q+
17:23:06 <ora> ack ora
17:23:14 <pfps> adrian: splitting of some stuff will allow people to concentrate
17:23:32 <pfps> zakim, next agendum
17:23:32 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- First Public Working Drafts of the "modernized" RDF 1.1 specs: Update -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:23:38 <pfps> zakim, open item 4
17:23:38 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- First Public Working Drafts of the "modernized" RDF 1.1 specs: Update -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:24:18 <pfps> pchampin: we now have respec versions of the specs
17:24:26 <AndyS> q+
17:24:40 <pfps> pchampin: we need a decision on whether to publish these as FPWDs
17:24:43 <pfps> q+
17:25:25 <pfps> pchampin: this starts W3C processes, such as patent review
17:25:48 <pfps> q+ to emphasize SOTD for this sort of FPWD
17:26:04 <ora> ack AndyS
17:26:07 <pfps> pchampin: publishing early gives a starting point
17:26:20 <pfps> andys: I agree
17:26:45 <pfps> andys: what quality of HTML do we need for FPWD?
17:26:46 <gkellogg> q+
17:26:53 <ora> ack pfps
17:26:53 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to emphasize SOTD for this sort of FPWD
17:27:13 <pfps> pchampin: specprot warnings do need to be addressed
17:27:26 <gkellogg> s/specprot/specprod/
17:28:08 <pfps> if we publish FPWDs of what we inherit the SOTD should say so
17:28:20 <ora> ack gkellogg
17:28:53 <pfps> gregg: there is an SOTD already in most documents
17:29:10 <pfps> gregg: and that should suffice
17:29:21 <pfps> q+ to ask when specprod is involved
17:29:44 <ora> ack pfps
17:29:44 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to ask when specprod is involved
17:29:54 <pfps> gregg: I can help make specprod happy
17:30:13 <pfps> when do I see output from specprod
17:31:32 <pfps> gregg:  github PRs go through the process
17:32:25 <pfps> gregg: there are two steps - IPR and respec
17:32:41 <ora> q?
17:32:55 <pchampin> q+
17:34:24 <pfps> if you put in a PR then there should be no problem?
17:34:40 <pfps> gregg: except for deep links, yes
17:35:21 <ora> ack pchampin
17:35:29 <pfps> in essence, checks happen early and we will get notificaitons
17:36:09 <pfps> pchampin: editors should evaluate whether to publish right away?
17:36:11 <pfps> q+
17:36:12 <TallTed> q+
17:36:15 <gkellogg> q+
17:36:38 <ora> q?
17:36:40 <pfps> I suggest that editors be given direction to try to publish ASAP
17:36:42 <ora> ack pfps
17:36:53 <ora> ack TallTed
17:37:23 <AndyS> q+
17:37:27 <pfps> tallted: I agree - ask editors to concentrate on getting the documents in shape for FPWD
17:37:34 <ora> ack gkellogg
17:37:58 <TallTed> s/in shape for FPWD/in shape for FPWD, especially correct & current SOTD/
17:38:12 <ora> q+
17:38:14 <pfps> gregg: timelines for RDF and SPARQL documents are offset so they might happen on a different timeline
17:38:16 <ora> ack AndyS
17:38:31 <ora> ack ora
17:38:33 <pfps> gregg: the RDF documents appear in good shape
17:38:50 <pfps> andys: other WG members can submit changes
17:39:03 <pfps> q+ to ask what approval process should be like
17:39:10 <ora> ack pfps
17:39:10 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to ask what approval process should be like
17:39:39 <pfps> what is expected for a PR to be merged
17:40:22 <pfps> gregg: in RDF canonicalization there was a list of people automatically requested to review a PR
17:40:59 <pchampin> q+
17:41:01 <pfps> gregg: so PR proposers should ask for reviews and after a suitable time period merge even if there are no reviews
17:41:07 <ora> ack pchampin
17:41:33 <pfps> pchampin: the editors should decide on the process
17:42:10 <TallTed> q+
17:42:31 <pfps> ora: talk about this next week
17:42:55 <TallTed> q-
17:43:05 <pfps> andys: what is the result?
17:43:29 <pfps> gregg: resolution on whether to publish
17:43:51 <pfps> andys: I want both RDF and SPARQL documents to have FPWD at the same time
17:44:25 <pfps> action: pchampin to coordinate on proposed resolution on FPWD
17:44:26 <ghurlbot> Created -> action #18 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/18
17:44:35 <AndyS> (some SPARQL documents)
17:44:37 <pfps> zakim, next agendum
17:44:37 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- RDF vs. RDF-star conformance ("Weak vs. strong", ...): Approval? -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:44:44 <pfps> zakim, open item 5
17:44:44 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- RDF vs. RDF-star conformance ("Weak vs. strong", ...): Approval? -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:45:04 <pfps> ora: this was discussed earlier
17:45:19 <pfps> ora: I think this is a good idea
17:45:21 <pfps> q+
17:45:35 <ora> ack pfps
17:46:10 <pfps> I'm not opposed but the result of the working group might not need this distinction
17:46:44 <pfps> For example, suppose the WG decides that quoted triples only require changes to surface syntax
17:46:52 <pchampin> q+ to point out that turtle parsing would still need a change
17:47:19 <pfps> ora: if so then the decision is moot, but a decision now would alleviate some concerns
17:47:21 <ora> ack pchampin
17:47:21 <Zakim> pchampin, you wanted to point out that turtle parsing would still need a change
17:47:55 <pfps> pchampin: surface syntax is a change but there still might be a difference between weak and strong compliance
17:47:55 <AndyS> q+
17:47:58 <gkellogg> q+
17:48:19 <ora> ack AndyS
17:48:49 <pfps> andys: looks like a good idea in principle
17:49:25 <pfps> andys: but this might affect decisions made in the future
17:49:37 <ora> ack gkellogg
17:49:38 <pchampin> q+ to mention "allowing new features" / living standard
17:49:42 <pfps> andys: and using this to drive future decisions is bad
17:50:11 <pfps> gregg: syntax changes hit most specifications
17:50:25 <pfps> gregg: the WG hasn't decided on syntax
17:50:45 <ora> q+
17:50:58 <pfps> gregg: level of conformance decisions might make it too easy to dismiss concerns about technical issues
17:51:01 <pfps> +1
17:51:16 <ora> ack pchampin
17:51:16 <Zakim> pchampin, you wanted to mention "allowing new features" / living standard
17:51:27 <ora> q-
17:52:20 <pfps> pchampin: the WG process can decide to permit later streamlined additions of new features
17:52:35 <pfps> pchampin: the WG should start to think about this option
17:53:24 <pfps> ora: we can't make a decision today, but please think about it
17:53:53 <pfps> ora: having this decision in place would help in technical discussions
17:54:08 <pfps> andys: would a written proposal help?
17:54:17 <pfps> ora: if distributed beforehand, yes
17:55:08 <pfps> antoine: the proposal came from elsewhere
17:55:22 <pfps> ora: antoine, do want us to work on a proposal
17:55:29 <pfps> antoine: yes
17:56:02 <pfps> action: ora to work with antoine and others to come up with a proposal for weak and strong compliance
17:56:03 <ghurlbot> Cannot create action. Validation failed. (Invalid user for this repository?)
17:56:26 <ktk> For the meeting minutes: Souri excused himself for todays meeting
17:56:43 <TallTed> regrets: souri
17:56:43 <pchampin> ghurlbot, ora = @rdfguy
17:56:43 <ghurlbot> pchampin, OK.
17:56:45 <AZ> one way is to change "ora" to "AZ"
17:56:50 <pfps> action: rdfguy to work with antoine and others to come up with a proposal for weak and strong compliance
17:56:52 <ghurlbot> Created -> action #19 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/19
17:57:02 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:57:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/09-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:57:10 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
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17:58:19 <TallTed> we might consider levels like SQL conformance (Entry, Intermediate, and Full)
18:03:54 <AndyS> Conformance email is https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2023Feb/0003.html (Full vs Weak)
18:05:50 <AndyS> (W3C archive search does not find it when searching for "weak")
18:06:32 <pchampin> s/agendum 5 -- RDF vs. RDF-star conformance ("Weak vs. strong", ...): Approval? -- taken up [from agendabot]//
18:06:43 <pchampin> s/agendum 4 -- First Public Working Drafts of the "modernized" RDF 1.1 specs: Update -- taken up [from agendabot]//
18:06:48 <pchampin> s/agendum 3 -- Agenda -- taken up [from agendabot]//
18:06:53 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:06:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/09-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
18:07:56 <pchampin> chair: ora
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