19:54:42 RRSAgent has joined #aria-at 19:54:46 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/02/02-aria-at-irc 19:54:56 rrsagent, make log public 19:55:20 MEETING: ARIA and Assistive Technologies Community Group 19:55:30 CHAIR: Matt King 19:55:34 present+ 19:55:40 rrsagent, make minutes 19:55:41 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/02-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King 20:00:20 Sam_PAC has joined #aria-at 20:06:52 michael_fairchild has joined #aria-at 20:08:51 TOPIC: Testing Update for APG support tables 20:09:34 howard-e has joined #aria-at 20:09:42 Two sets of data done for jaws for 4 of first 5 plans. 20:10:16 SAssessment of NVDA shows that we don't need to update the NVDA data. 20:10:37 Dillon will provde the 2nd second data set for toggle with jaws 2023. 20:10:47 James will follow up with Dillon. 20:11:26 Matt: are there any conflicts we need to resolve? 20:11:44 James: No conflicts. 20:12:11 We were able to resolve the prior conflicts without additional input. 20:14:14 Matt: should we publish now? 20:17:25 Next Steps: 1. Howard land the PR for reports page that will eliminate extra rows on reports page 20:17:43 2. Land APG PR that Alex is working on for the changes to APG Support table that were requested 20:18:07 3. Get Dylans update to toggle data 20:18:21 4. Then publish all 5 reports to the reports page 20:18:40 5. The Matt makes PR to APG to add support tables to Link, Label, and Alert 20:19:00 Then we will be ready to share the APG preview with Apple and Vispero that will include the support tables for all 5 plans 20:19:53 TOPIC: Next three plans: Preview Slider, Dialog, Menu Navigation Button 20:20:04 MK: How is the testing on these going? 20:20:25 JS: We've completed the testing with JAWS 2023, but no other SR yet. 20:20:42 JS: We need to get a second tester to go through the test plans with JAWS 2023 20:24:09 MK: For VO, the Preview slider is already passing 100% of our tests, so does not need to be retested 20:24:53 MK: Next to do is to get the second set of JAW data, and then decide if we want to update the test plan data for these three with VO 20:25:24 MK: This seems like it would be great to have Louis perform these test if he is available. Bocoup is that possible? 20:25:49 Howard: It would be best to wait until the new PM comes on board, before engaging Louis 20:26:28 JS: We have plenty to do over the next week, so we can decide in next weeks meeting 20:26:57 TOPIC: Plan for sizing and prioritizing testing backlog 20:28:05 MK: When we tell the world about the new AT Support tables, and have 65 support pages, the first question people will ask is "When will we get some more?" 20:29:38 MK: We need to set expectations with the broader community, but also would be good to apply pressure to the AT Vendors. We will need to check in with the AT vendors regarding this plan before we make it public 20:30:00 MK: Right now we have a blank slate about how to approach this. I have discussed this with James a little 20:31:44 jongund has joined #aria-at 20:31:44 JS: To schedule additional test plans, we suspect we will want to look at the 16 and determine what state those are in. Some are ready to go into test queue, some need updates, some may need to add some assertions related to mode switching. 20:32:18 JS: The two question I have is, do we want to keep the 16 plans we have previously prioritized, or revisit the whole list and create new priorities? 20:32:36 present+ jongund 20:32:59 MK: I think we should reopen the discussion of the entire list of test plans and get some input from the community as to what to prioritize 20:33:18 SCRIBE+ 20:38:53 JS: The most important next step is to come up with the list of the plans, and their status. Then we can decide what plans are next in part based on how much work they need to be ready to test 20:39:21 JS: We also need a list of examples that aren't currently targeted by an existing test plan 20:40:03 MK: It appears to me that there will be significant value in chasing some more low hanging fruit. However, we can't avoid the more complicated ones, because they will likely have a higher value to the community 20:40:33 MK: We should involve the SR developers in these discussions. I think we should target 1 or 2 more complicated ones 20:40:48 JS: I agree 20:41:22 MK: Should we use a google sheet to share the test plans and their status with the community? 20:41:29 JS: Yes that works for us 20:42:16 MK: It seems to me that we need to make some progress on this fairly soon, to have these answers ready when people start review the first examples in the APG 20:43:37 JS: We will look into and see what we come up with 20:44:00 TOPIC: Communications of APG support table availability 20:45:08 MK: I think this is a big deal. I'm trying to figure out some communication post for inside Meta about this projects progress. I've started writing a section on WCAG, and realized these support tables are a game changer for WCAG 20:46:33 MK: I feel like once we get some comprehensive data, WCAG can use our APG support tables as the official standard. That seems to me like it is something worth talking about in a public way 20:47:10 MF: I think that there is a opportunity to work with the authors of WCAG 3.0 20:51:31 MF: We should work with the working group to make WCAG clearer to understand 20:54:25 MK: I think we should write a W3C blog post to communicate to tell the world what these updates mean, include testimonals, get some statements from various stakeholders. Then have this post supported by a more technical post on the Bocoup blog, that explains they have been doing on a technical level. James should we post on the PACs website? 20:54:38 JS: Yes we can discuss that internally 20:55:55 MK: I think 5 is enough support tables to show the world what this all means, especially since Radio button is included 20:56:16 MK: Do others agree this is a good way to tell the world? 20:56:21 JS: Yes 20:56:26 MF: Yes I think its a good idea 20:56:45 MK: Mike and Howard we can discuss this with Boaz 20:57:27 MK: I will take the lead on this and figure out who will do the writing. I can be the author for the W3C post, 20:58:14 MK: We can discuss how to get other people involved over the coming weeks. I imagine Vispero would love to give some testimonials especially about the work they have performed as a result of these test plans 21:00:18 JG: I can perform the additional testing for Slider and Menu button 21:01:06 rrsagent, make minutes 21:01:08 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/02-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King 21:19:36 jongund has joined #aria-at 21:37:58 jongund has joined #aria-at 21:39:57 jongund has joined #aria-at 22:06:19 jongund has joined #aria-at 22:23:29 jongund has joined #aria-at 22:43:59 jongund has joined #aria-at 23:15:33 jugglnmike has joined #aria-at