12:59:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-uc
12:59:53 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/01/31-wot-uc-irc
13:01:09 <mlagally> mlagally has joined #wot-uc
13:01:23 <mlagally> zakim, who is on the call
13:01:23 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the call', mlagally
13:01:35 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura
13:01:35 <mlagally> zakim, who is here
13:01:35 <Zakim> mlagally, you need to end that query with '?'
13:01:45 <kaz> meeting: WoT Use Cases
13:01:57 <mlagally> Hi Kaz, dial-in from the Wiki does not work, can you please provide here?
13:02:11 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-uc
13:04:27 <mlagally> thanks - seems nobody can hear me
13:05:58 <kaz> present+ Michael_Lagally, Tomoaki_Mizushima
13:07:00 <Ege> Ege has joined #wot-uc
13:07:06 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot-uc
13:07:21 <McCool> hey all, webex in calendar entries is not working
13:07:25 <McCool> what are we using?
13:07:40 <McCool> what Ege said :)
13:10:48 <McCool> scribenick: McCool
13:12:25 <kaz> q+
13:12:34 <kaz> q?
13:12:53 <kaz> present+ Ege_Korkan, Michael_McCool
13:13:06 <McCool> topic: Agenda
13:13:24 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/IG_UseCase_WebConf#Jan_31st.2C_2023
13:13:24 <kaz> q?
13:13:26 <kaz> q+ Ege
13:13:28 <kaz> ack e
13:13:48 <McCool> mm: suggest we add a discussion of how to use the results of the use case analysis
13:14:41 <McCool> kaz: probably several policies, including how to transfer, and how to discuss in TF
13:14:58 <McCool> ml: ok, added the agenda
13:15:09 <McCool> topic: Minutes
13:15:13 <kaz> ack k
13:15:17 <McCool> ml: from 10 January 2023
13:15:22 <kaz> q+
13:15:48 <kaz> i|from|-> https://www.w3.org/2023/01/10-wot-uc-minutes.html Jan-10|
13:15:51 <kaz> ack k
13:17:09 <McCool> ml: any objections to publishing?
13:17:17 <McCool> ... hearing none, let's publish
13:17:24 <McCool> topic: Contributions
13:17:52 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pulls PRs
13:17:54 <McCool> ml: have new use case, uc and requirements process, requirements field in template
13:18:16 <kaz> subtopic: PR 207
13:18:24 <McCool> subtopic: PR #207 Smart Agriculture - Pest Control
13:18:30 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/207 PR 207 - Add a new use case of for smart agriculture-pest control
13:19:21 <McCool> ml: is a new person, seems the PR goes directly into the main doc
13:19:34 <McCool> .. submitters are three people from ETRI
13:20:25 <kaz> s/subtopic: PR 207//
13:21:03 <McCool> mm: so involves drones, remote sensing
13:21:22 <McCool> ... question if drones are automated, in which case there will be additional edge computing requirements
13:21:58 <kaz> q+
13:22:24 <McCool> ml: there is analysis in the cloud
13:22:38 <McCool> mm: not sure that covers real time control of flight path, though
13:23:33 <kaz> q?
13:25:03 <McCool> kaz: this is related to discussion on policy; how do we extract requirements?  How do we identify additional requirements, such as in this case real-time control?
13:25:11 <McCool> q+
13:25:48 <McCool> kaz: we already have section 3 after section 2, wonder if it would make sense to use section 3 as a requirements section
13:26:05 <McCool> ... keep this section, do requirements separately
13:26:21 <mlagally> q+
13:26:29 <kaz> ack k
13:26:36 <Mizushima> +1 kaz
13:26:58 <kaz> ack mc
13:28:46 <McCool> mm: think we should focus on the use case for now, and decide whether to merge it or ask them to add a few things
13:29:24 <McCool> ... I personally think edge computing is a technical detail that should be added
13:30:18 <McCool> ml: think this use case does really go deep down into implementation, so we can extract the edge computing requirement later
13:30:22 <McCool> mm: agree
13:30:46 <McCool> ml: suggest we merge it then, ok except for a minor typo
13:30:58 <McCool> mm: agree; also ok with merging directly into the doc
13:31:39 <McCool> ... probably also need to update the acks section with org, etc.
13:32:08 <McCool> ml: I think this is their second contribution, so they might already be there; yes, they are
13:32:27 <McCool> ... well, two of them; will have to add the third one
13:33:03 <McCool> ... how about we ask them to add the person to the acks and fix the typo
13:33:25 <kaz> q?
13:33:28 <kaz> ack ml
13:33:29 <McCool> kaz: or we could just merge it and make some quick fixes
13:34:30 <McCool> topic: Requirements
13:35:30 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/blob/main/REQUIREMENTS/requirements-template.md requirements-template.md
13:36:00 <kaz> q+
13:36:30 <McCool> ml: we have a template
13:36:30 <Ege> q+
13:36:38 <McCool> mm: seems missing technical needs
13:37:09 <kaz> ack k
13:37:10 <McCool> kaz: should say why we need a specific feature
13:37:13 <McCool> q+
13:37:35 <McCool> ege: we are modifying this document, but I also have a PR updating this document
13:38:26 <McCool> ... is it us who write the requirements, or external submitters?
13:38:44 <kaz> s/should say why we need a specific feature/basically agree, and think we should describe why we need a specific feature based on concrete use case(s), e.g., precise time synchronization between multiple devices,  rather than just referring to the relates use cases./
13:38:54 <kaz> q?
13:38:55 <kaz> ack e
13:39:09 <McCool> ... now we are getting input from people using the use case template, now we are using another?
13:39:30 <McCool> ml: use case is from user perspective, requirements is from a technical perspective and details
13:39:30 <kaz> i|we are|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/193 PR 193 - Add new requirement fields for the template|
13:40:00 <McCool> ege: some details we may not be able to extract from use cases if they do not give them
13:40:26 <McCool> ml: I suspect these people may not know all the details of what is needed
13:40:48 <McCool> ... use case is about satisfying user needs
13:40:48 <kaz> q+
13:41:09 <McCool> ege: ok, but that does not provide enough detail for us to act on it
13:41:42 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster
13:44:16 <McCool> mm: two things, policy and process
13:44:32 <Ege> +1 to kaz
13:44:54 <McCool> .. first of all, think external contributors to requirements makes sense; already doing for use cases, overall doc is IG doc, is not binding on WG
13:45:21 <Ege> q+
13:45:29 <McCool> ... second, I think a separate list of requirements is useful, since may have to pull from multiple use cases, and don't want to modify original use cases
13:46:01 <McCool> kaz: think we should also ask people to still add requirements to individual use cases as well
13:46:39 <McCool> ege: note template also allows "flexible" as an answer if it is not know, e.g. the specific protocol
13:46:41 <kaz> q?
13:46:43 <kaz> ack mc
13:46:46 <kaz> ack k
13:46:48 <kaz> ack e
13:46:48 <McCool> s/know/known/
13:46:49 <Ege> ack e
13:46:50 <kaz> q+
13:46:58 <McCool> q+
13:47:39 <McCool> ml: if it is a separate document, ok with duplicating sections; but not fond of copy-paste in general
13:47:48 <McCool> kaz: we can add this kind of information later
13:48:58 <mlagally> q+
13:49:01 <kaz> ack k
13:49:21 <McCool> ... we should start with abstract-level information
13:49:35 <McCool> mm: ok if a lot of fields are empty, it's better than overlooking something
13:49:53 <McCool> ml: expect users to write use cases, technical people to write requirements
13:49:54 <kaz> s/later/later, because protocol requirements and content type requirements would be useful to the Binding Templates spec./
13:50:01 <Ege> q+
13:50:03 <kaz> s/we should/However, we should/
13:50:21 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:50:22 <McCool> ... and along with that, would like to add a "business need" point to the requirements document
13:50:25 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:50:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/31-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
13:50:52 <kaz> chair: Lagally
13:51:13 <kaz> s/Hi Kaz, dial-in from the Wiki does not work, can you please provide here?//
13:51:24 <kaz> s/thanks - seems nobody can hear me//
13:51:25 <McCool> mm: business is not really a requirement, it's a motivation
13:51:32 <McCool> ... maybe we handle it separately
13:51:35 <kaz> q?
13:51:41 <kaz> ack mc
13:51:44 <kaz> ack ml
13:51:45 <kaz> ack e
13:51:47 <kaz> s/hey all, webex in calendar entries is not working//
13:51:51 <McCool> ... although there might be needs for business, e.g. to monetize a service
13:51:58 <kaz> s/what are we using?//
13:52:07 <kaz> s/what Ege said :)//
13:52:11 <kaz> q+
13:52:15 <McCool> ege: not sure this should be in the use case document
13:52:22 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:52:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/31-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
13:52:45 <McCool> ... if someone submits a business-motivated case, would expect them to provide detailed requirements
13:52:57 <McCool> q?
13:52:59 <McCool> q+
13:53:17 <McCool> ege: what can we do with the use case we just discussed, for example?
13:53:44 <McCool> ... what particular protocol is needed?
13:53:56 <McCool> ml: so do we have video formats in the specs?
13:54:43 <McCool> kaz: can understand Ege's concern, but we should not just ask people to submit concrete, perfect requirements; but ask them for collaboration and to continue to discuss and clarify them
13:55:01 <McCool> ... how to achieve that goal is the question
13:55:12 <Ege> q+
13:55:23 <McCool> ... template is fine and useful, but some contributors may have a hard time filling it out
13:55:43 <kaz> ack k
13:55:43 <McCool> ... we should clarify our policy to ask all
13:56:47 <kaz> zakim, close the queue
13:56:47 <Zakim> ok, kaz, the speaker queue is closed
13:57:01 <kaz> q?
13:57:03 <kaz> ack m
13:57:09 <McCool> mm: first, think we should merge ege's PR on template
13:57:28 <McCool> ... second, agree with kaz that gathering requirements is a process, need to keep people engaged
13:58:09 <McCool> ... third, business motivations can be used as a filter after requirements are gathered, e.g. we can see what use cases motivated which requirement and who proposed the use cases
13:58:57 <McCool> ml: ok, regarding the template, suggest put in a branch and make a PR, will ask for comments
13:59:32 <kaz> i|ok, reg|Ege:  +1 to kaz. we have to extract the requirements and if this is not possible (collaboration problems), the use case is simply not considered|
13:59:40 <McCool> mm: let's do policy discussion in next call
13:59:43 <kaz> i/Ege:/scribenick: kaz/
13:59:46 <McCool> ml: ok, in two weeks
13:59:56 <kaz> i/ok/scribenick: McCool/
14:00:11 <kaz> [adjourned]
14:00:16 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:00:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/31-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz