13:21:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rqtf
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13:21:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:21:39 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
13:21:39 <trackbot> Date: 18 January 2023
13:21:43 <jasonjgw> chair: jasonjgw
13:21:48 <jasonjgw> present+
13:22:10 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Proposed upcoming joint meeting - planning and discussion.
13:22:10 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Revising the RQTF Work Statement.
13:22:10 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Web of Things: APA Working Group review.
13:22:10 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Web of Things: accessible recovery expectations.
13:22:10 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Task Force publications.
13:22:12 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Miscellaneous topics.
13:22:20 <jasonjgw> zakim, clear agenda
13:22:20 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:22:29 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Proposed upcoming joint meeting - planning and discussion.
13:22:29 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Revising the RQTF Work Statement.
13:22:29 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Web of Things: APA Working Group review.
13:22:29 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Web of Things: accessible recovery expectations.
13:22:29 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Task Force publications.
13:22:32 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Miscellaneous topics.
13:52:50 <janina> janina has joined #rqtf
13:53:06 <janina> agenda?
13:53:32 <janina> present+
13:55:32 <Joshue10_> Joshue10_ has joined #rqtf
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13:58:36 <MichaelC> present+
13:59:16 <scott_h> present+
13:59:50 <Joshue10_> present+
14:00:08 <Joshue108_> Joshue108_ has joined #rqtf
14:00:22 <Joshue108_> q?
14:00:27 <Joshue108_> agenda?
14:00:51 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
14:00:51 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Proposed upcoming joint meeting - planning and discussion. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:01:13 <Joshue108_> MC: Does intro..
14:01:34 <Joshue108_> MC: I spoke with the APA chairs about this - we have a mix of blind and deaf people present
14:01:47 <Joshue108_> It would be good to have someone sighted on the call sharing the docs
14:01:56 <Joshue108_> Ideally not the sribe
14:02:16 <Joshue108_> s/sribe/scribe
14:02:24 <Joshue108_> MC: Responses?
14:02:33 <Joshue108_> Could anyone take this up?
14:02:41 <Joshue108_> scribe: Joshue108_
14:02:55 <Joshue108_> +1 to MC
14:03:36 <Joshue108_> SN: I can do it today
14:03:57 <Joshue108_> Whoever is taking minutes cant screen share.
14:04:26 <Joshue108_> MC: Follow the links when we get into the document
14:04:58 <Joshue108_> JOC: We need a scribe and a screen sharer
14:05:25 <Joshue108_> JS: Are our call cluttered? Should we have transcriptions on in Zoom?
14:05:31 <Joshue108_> MC: Yeah people can turn them off.
14:05:53 <Joshue108_> JS: Regarding joint meeting for this time next week - COGA and other parties
14:06:08 <MichaelC>  s/instigated/initiated/
14:06:44 <Joshue108_> There is an interest in methodological considerations and how work is done at W3C
14:06:52 <Joshue108_> Agenda still in progress
14:07:07 <Joshue108_> JW: Anything else?
14:07:30 <Joshue108_> JS: Not since I sent something this morning - Lisa will now be offline until next week
14:07:45 <Joshue108_> Some of this may come last minute
14:08:07 <Joshue108_> Lisa will invite people from COGA - there will be others from AGWG
14:08:52 <Joshue108_> We can work out how we can co-ordinate
14:09:06 <Joshue108_> We have lots of experts here in this group, as well as in COGA
14:09:32 <Joshue108_> We want to co-ordinate and work effectively
14:09:46 <Joshue108_> New agenda may not happen until early next week
14:10:17 <Joshue108_> We can work out details for other groups in email etc
14:10:46 <Joshue108_> JW: Any comments?
14:11:11 <Joshue108_> SH: Would it be helpful if I outlined the current process?
14:11:26 <Joshue108_> <Scott gives overview>
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14:12:02 <Joshue108_> JS: This is what Lisa wanted us to work on
14:12:06 <SteveNoble> present+
14:12:32 <Joshue108_> JS:A general overview would be very helpful
14:13:22 <Joshue108_> JS: We may examine keywords and find new things
14:13:24 <Joshue108_> JW: I agree
14:14:11 <Joshue108_> JW: I can also help out with that - keywords are a good start
14:14:30 <Joshue108_> SH: But not the be all and end all
14:14:39 <Joshue108_> JS: We can reiterate the process
14:15:27 <Joshue108_> JW: We can do that
14:15:54 <Joshue108_> Collecting combined expertise drawing on the field for good coverage is important
14:16:42 <Joshue108_> JW: We can take what is found in other groups into consideration
14:16:49 <Joshue108_> JOC: +1 from me
14:17:06 <Joshue108_> SH: I'll kick that off
14:17:08 <Joshue108_> agenda?
14:17:20 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
14:17:20 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Revising the RQTF Work Statement. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:17:46 <Joshue108_> JW: I know there is work being done, any update?
14:18:02 <Joshue108_> JS: There is a request for us to re-read it
14:18:23 <Joshue108_> Its useful for someone new but it may be good as is, or indeed need update
14:18:40 <Joshue108_> APA is rechartering - we would like to list deliverables over the next two years
14:18:45 <MichaelC> q+
14:18:51 <Joshue108_> RQTF doesn't do normative specs
14:19:11 <Joshue108_> But this is a fairly lightweight request
14:19:27 <Joshue108_> JS: We'd like to finish the charter and forward to Michael and W3C management etc
14:19:40 <Joshue108_> ack m
14:19:58 <Joshue108_> MC: I've had a look, dont see a need to change it
14:20:12 <Joshue108_> Shadi used to update work statements more that me
14:20:25 <Joshue108_> JW: If it looks good to you that is encouraging
14:20:50 <Joshue108_> Unless there are other comments we can bring it back for review in two weeks
14:21:05 <MichaelC> q+
14:21:13 <Joshue108_> JS: Good plan, but we are looking at elevating Maturity model to its own TF
14:22:07 <Joshue108_> This work will be moved out of RQTF - early to mid Feb
14:22:25 <Joshue108_> q?
14:22:26 <MichaelC> ack me
14:22:31 <Joshue108_> ack m
14:23:06 <Joshue108_> MC: Points out that whoever is sharing the screen should follow the relevant link and share on screen
14:23:14 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
14:23:14 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Web of Things: APA Working Group review. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:23:48 <Joshue108_> JW: There are two agenda for this - first regarding working group review, and then recovery strategies for these devices
14:24:28 <Joshue108_> JS: Have we the link to share it, the email?
14:24:29 <Joshue108_> SN: Yes
14:25:20 <Joshue108_> JS: <gives background on Gottfrieds Phd review of WoT>
14:25:46 <Joshue108_> agenda?
14:27:03 <Joshue108_> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2023Jan/0000.html
14:27:18 <Joshue108_> JS: Should we just forward this to MichaelMc in WoT group?
14:27:22 <Joshue108_> q?
14:28:16 <Joshue108_> JW: Dont know much about the Matter standard. It is an open spec - about the protocols and standards used for devices
14:29:10 <Joshue108_> JS: Is this a path for taking middleware out of the equation?
14:29:41 <Joshue108_> JW: It might -but my understanding is that WoT based controllers would be attached over this protocol
14:29:55 <Joshue108_> There are questions of configuration and how discovery happens
14:30:10 <Joshue108_> JS: <Gives overview of how it happens>
14:30:44 <Joshue108_> JS: Camera or QR a bar code - install that - it hopefully helps you connect to the device - usually a miserable experience
14:31:33 <Joshue108_> Once that is done - the control of these devices - whether Google, Amazon or Apple - if Matter takes the place of that in between app - this would be great
14:31:45 <Joshue108_> SN: Gotta drop
14:32:44 <Joshue108_> JOC: Gives recap - sounds like a good overview
14:32:46 <Joshue108_> q?
14:33:39 <Joshue108_> JOC: This could potentially standardise the space from an accessibility perspective
14:33:41 <Joshue108_> JS: Yes
14:34:12 <Joshue108_> RK: Are you saying because Matter is becoming more standardized - is that me, the human, in the way may help to standardize the process?
14:34:25 <Joshue108_> JS: Yes, it may be space that Matter occupies
14:34:41 <Joshue108_> JW: I'll look into it.
14:34:55 <Joshue108_> RK: I've already done testing with Matter on Android and iPhone
14:35:05 <Joshue108_> They dont interact with each other
14:35:22 <Joshue108_> You need to register them seperatatly - there may be some nice a11y there
14:35:28 <Joshue108_> RK: I'm in support of this.
14:35:54 <Joshue108_> JS: You mean because you configure it on one, it doesn't work in another?
14:36:08 <Joshue108_> RK: Yes, you need to config both seperately
14:36:20 <Joshue108_> JS: If you put in a new device does Matter add it?
14:36:48 <Joshue108_> RK: Yes, I think its the human interaction piece  but thats my hope that its the function
14:37:06 <Joshue108_> JS: Great - we can figure this out
14:37:19 <Joshue108_> JW: I'll do some research
14:37:33 <Joshue108_> JS: We can follow up with WoT - no time crunch at the mo.
14:38:26 <Joshue108_> JW: We can talk again in two weeks
14:38:39 <Joshue108_> q?
14:38:47 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
14:38:47 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Web of Things: accessible recovery expectations. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:39:10 <Joshue108_> JW: This is review of conversation from last week
14:39:38 <Joshue108_> Wireless interference can push these devices off the network.
14:39:53 <Joshue108_> They need to be positioned properly
14:39:58 <janina> q+
14:40:10 <Joshue108_> ack jan
14:40:28 <Joshue108_> JS: They are sometimes 80211 - mentioned in advertising.
14:40:42 <Joshue108_> They can still fail
14:41:54 <Joshue108_> <gives overview of her experience resetting these devices after a power output>
14:42:43 <Joshue108_> SH: There is another example, I've a smart clock - that gives me message fail - but gives me no sense of what the error is.
14:42:49 <Joshue108_> There is an order to rebooting
14:43:00 <Joshue108_> We should try to capture some of this.
14:43:08 <Joshue108_> q?
14:43:49 <Joshue108_> JW: Question - say a device is reset, looses connection etc - what are the expectations about re-connection attempts?
14:44:00 <Joshue108_> Do configs in memory survive?
14:44:19 <Joshue108_> How persistent and robust are these protocols?
14:44:42 <Joshue108_> Maybe the Matter standard addresses that.
14:44:55 <Joshue108_> SH: We could explore and add it to our user requirements doc.
14:46:05 <Joshue108_> JS: Regarding failure recovery scenarios - the devices that phone home, Nest etc - may be trying to do this with previous network data that may not be valid
14:46:27 <Joshue108_> Waiting longer may not be an option
14:48:38 <Joshue108_> JOC: Sounds like there is a need for persistent protocols in some contexts but not in others
14:48:54 <Joshue108_> JS: <gives and example of where engineering thinking is going>
14:48:56 <Joshue108_> q?
14:49:28 <Joshue108_> JW: <Gives overview of potential protocols>
14:50:23 <Joshue108_> We need potentially local network based access even when the larger network is out
14:50:57 <Joshue108_> JS: There are data pushes from phone home devices to CDN services
14:51:53 <Joshue108_> <More discussion on devices>
14:52:07 <Joshue108_> JW: Will we open a wiki?
14:52:48 <Joshue108_> SH: yup
14:53:19 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
14:53:19 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Task Force publications. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:54:06 <Joshue108_> JOC: Just to add the WoT Architecture review wiki page could be a good place for this https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/WoT_Architecture_review
14:54:20 <Joshue108_> SH: We had a discussion last week
14:54:42 <Joshue108_> Its not really clear that we are looking at Collab tools relating to documents etc
14:54:54 <Joshue108_> Michael made this point last week.
14:55:13 <Joshue108_> JW: The document does define scope well - is this an issue with messaging?
14:55:18 <Joshue108_> SH: Yes
14:55:21 <Joshue108_> MC: Yes
14:55:45 <Joshue108_> JW: We can rework it and invite review
14:55:46 <Joshue108_> q?
14:56:48 <Joshue108_> JW: Lets bring it back in two weeks
14:56:58 <Joshue108_> Add citations etc
14:58:03 <Joshue108_> SH: Agreed
14:58:04 <janina> janina has left #rqtf
14:58:40 <Joshue108_> RK: I asked about the range from texting to speaking. How much part of the speaking do you envisage for this type of platform?
14:59:05 <Joshue108_> JW: Two weeks (we have a joint meeting thing next week)
14:59:53 <Joshue108_> MC: We should add questions of this sort to the messaging etc
15:00:15 <Joshue108_> JW: Thanks all
15:00:25 <Joshue108_> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:00:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/18-rqtf-minutes.html Joshue108_