Meeting minutes
Propose 'text-spacing: space-first' (trim-start-except-first-line) as a normal behavior
https://
Eric: There are many typography conventions
xfq: this issue is about the default behavior
[xfq explains text-spacing and the issue]
xfq: the OP proposes 'text-spacing: space-first' as a normal behavior
https://
huijing: trim-start will be the best for the typographic conventions, but it cannot be the default behavior because of compat issues
Eric: If so, space-first is better than space-start
… authors can change the value themselves
huijing: agreed
… Many default values in CSS are wrong
… authors need to change them
Eric: I won't object
xfq: OK
… I'll reply to the CSS issue
Bobby: is this a new value?
xfq: this is not a new value, but no browsers has implemented this yet
Eric: I agree with Florian's summary
Bobby: paragraphs may start with two ideographic spaces (U+3000)
https://
xfq: see https://
… "Modify `hanging-punctuation: first` to hang a paragraph-initial ideographic space as well."
xfq: FYI - https://
… 0.125ic, i.e., 0.125 em for Han characters
… https://
Go through the pull request list
https://
https://github.com/w3c/clreq/pull/513
xfq: the TF charter ends in April
… updated the charter
… Markup fixes
… Update the end date from 2023 to 2025
… Update a few links
… Add the WHATWG to the list of relevant groups
… any comments?
Bobby: "the languages of China"
… let's be more precise
xfq: what about changing it to "Simplified and Traditional Chinese"?
Eric: OK
Bobby: what about adding accessibility to the Scope/Deliverables section?
Eric: I can make comments, but don't have time to write the docs myself
… I don't object to working on this
Bobby: Taiwanese Braille is actually splitting Chinese characters into Bopomofo
Eric: Mainland Chinese Braille splits Chinese characters into pinyin
[Discuss the history of browser support for Braille]
Eric: we have a Guobiao standard for Braille in Mainland China
Bobby: Murata Makoto is also working on ruby accessibility
xfq: Regarding accessibility, do you want to work on e-books accessibility or general web pages accessibility?
Bobby: general web pages
xfq: OK, then we will have a borader scope
Bobby: I'd like to connect i18n and a11y groups
… Raise language-specific accessibility requirements
… This is a good direction
xfq: We (W3C China) are also going to hold an accessibility conference this year
… You are also welcome to participate
Bobby: I participated last year, the amount of information was very large
… Many engineers talked about a lot of interesting things, which are more down-to-earth than many speakers in Taiwan
xfq: any other comments on the TF charter?
[silence]
xfq: I'll update the PR
https://github.com/w3c/clreq/pull/508
All: agreed to merge
https://github.com/w3c/clreq/pull/501
xfq: see https://
… let's change it back
Zhengyu: will do
https://github.com/w3c/clreq/pull/492
xfq: there are several unresolved comments
… 1. https://
Zhengyu: the scope of 'non-Chinese' is too wide
… What we have discussed so far in the document can only cover a small part of 'non-Chinese'
… There are some rules that may not work for many Middle Eastern and South Asian scripts
xfq: Is there a specific example?
Zhengyu: South Asian scripts and Latin typesetting rules are not the same
… and Middle Eastern RTL scripts
… Japanese also does not work
… Korean might work, but I'm not sure
Bobby: Can we add a note explaining 'non-Chinese'?
… explain that 'non-Chinese' does not include certain scripts and writing systems
xfq: 'text-orientation: upright' might not work for writing systems that derive from the former Brahmi script
Eric: The basic unit of text is not even clear
xfq: There are also some writing systems that have their own punctuation marks, and the rules we use here for Western scripts cannot be applied to them
Zhengyu: Mongolian does not work either
… the rules for 'Chinese and Western Mixed Texts' and 'Chinese and Mongolian Mixed Texts' are not the same
… We can't even make an comparison, we need a whole new set of rules to describe it
Eric: we talk about 'Western text' because it's more common than other scripts
[Discuss why we chose the word 'Western text' initially]
xfq: I'll discuss with Richard
Bobby: There are a lot of typesetting cases for Chinese and Western Mixed Texts, so we are more sure about their typesetting rules
Zhengyu: Richard didn't seem to object to 'Western', but he objected to 'European'.
xfq: If we use 'Western', the Cyrillic script may be excluded
[Discuss the Chinese terminology]
… the second unresolved comment: https://
Eric: let's file a separate issue for this
Go through the issue list
https://
https://github.com/w3c/clreq/issues/514
Eric: I agree with mentioning italic in the document
Zhengyu: I don't think 'font-style: italic' should make all font faces slope, it is Western-centrism
… Italic font faces in Western texts are sloped, but for other scripts, the font face should not be artificially sloped.
… this is a design mistake
… I hope we can correct this mistake
Bobby: I agree
… unless we use 'font-style: oblique'
https://
[Discuss the image ^]
Eric: I just wrote a comment - https://
huijing: italic is per character, not per sentence
Eric: Chinese maps use sloped font faces
Eric: Names of rivers and mountains are sloped
Eric: The names of the mountains are sloped to the right, and the names of the rivers are sloped to the left
xfq: Results are inconsistent across browsers ^
[Discuss https://
[Discuss I18N/CSS calls]
Next teleconference time
February 21 (Tuesday), 19:00-20:00 (UTC+8)
Happy Chinese New Year!