IRC log of wot-profile on 2023-01-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:00:23 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wot-profile
12:00:27 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/01/11-wot-profile-irc
12:03:11 [ryuichi]
ryuichi has joined #wot-profile
12:03:33 [mlagally]
mlagally has joined #wot-profile
12:03:35 [Mizushima]
Mizushima has joined #wot-profile
12:04:10 [kaz]
meeting: WoT Architecture/Profile
12:04:24 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool
12:06:34 [kaz]
present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
12:11:15 [McCool]
McCool has joined #wot-profile
12:11:49 [McCool]
scribenick: McCool
12:14:01 [McCool]
topic: Minutes
12:14:14 [McCool]
ml: minutes from Dec 22 meeting
12:14:18 [kaz]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/index.php?title=WG_WoT_Architecture_WebConf&action=edit&section=17
12:14:55 [kaz]
i|minutes|-> https://www.w3.org/2022/12/22-wot-arch-minutes.html Dec-22 Architecture minutes|
12:15:10 [McCool]
ml: note this was a combined arch/profiles meeting
12:15:31 [McCool]
ml: as it was all architecture, let's review it in the arch call tomorrow
12:15:46 [McCool]
topic: WD Publication
12:15:48 [kaz]
q+
12:15:56 [McCool]
ml: made a resolution, where are we with publication?
12:16:17 [McCool]
kaz: unfortunately, was not able to publish during holiday
12:16:23 [kaz]
ack k
12:17:03 [McCool]
... still also working on CR publications, but Profile WD also not done
12:17:09 [McCool]
topic: Schedule
12:17:38 [McCool]
mm: will be proposing a 4mo extension today, to May 31
12:18:27 [McCool]
mm: for Profiles, to get to PR would need CR in first two weeks of March at latest
12:19:09 [McCool]
... however, have 2wk internal WG review, so end of Feb need CR candidate
12:19:50 [McCool]
mm: with other things going on, probably 4 to 5 meetings
12:21:58 [McCool]
ml: (captures some notes in agenda wiki)
12:22:08 [McCool]
ml: what about a testfest?
12:22:20 [McCool]
mm: probably don't need one for other specs, but ok to focus on profile
12:22:42 [McCool]
... but we should resolve any descoping prior and have a clear WD
12:23:55 [McCool]
topic: Contributions
12:24:04 [McCool]
ml: some new PRs
12:24:29 [McCool]
ml: PR #346
12:24:52 [McCool]
... add clarification on server behavior for webhooks
12:25:24 [McCool]
ml: feel it is a useful clarification, says consumer provides both client and server behavior
12:25:56 [McCool]
mm: feel it does address the issues cited and should be merged
12:26:10 [McCool]
ml: concur, let's merge
12:27:02 [kaz]
i/PR #346/subtopic: PR 346/
12:27:16 [McCool]
ml: rest is WIP; what about #314?
12:27:18 [kaz]
i|PR #346|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/346 PR 346 - Add clarification on server behavior of webhook consumer|
12:27:29 [McCool]
mm: I need some time to catch up on the comments on #314
12:27:33 [kaz]
i|#314|subtopic: PR 314|
12:27:50 [dape]
dape has joined #wot-profile
12:27:52 [McCool]
topic: Testfest results
12:28:03 [kaz]
i|#314|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/314 PR 314 - Allow auto security scheme for other permitted security schemes|
12:28:58 [mlagally]
https://cdn.statically.io/gh/w3c/wot-profile/main/testing/report.html
12:29:08 [McCool]
ml: (generates rendered version of report)
12:29:19 [McCool]
q?
12:29:30 [kaz]
present+ Daniel_Peintner
12:29:57 [kaz]
s/https/-> https/
12:30:11 [McCool]
ml: let's look at the at-risk items in the report
12:30:23 [kaz]
s/html/html Rendered version of the draft Implementation Report for WoT Profile|
12:30:35 [kaz]
s/Profile|/Profile/
12:30:44 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
12:30:48 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:30:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/11-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:32:45 [McCool]
mm: should also look at categories, e.g. TD ones can in theory be automatically validated
12:33:04 [dape]
q+
12:33:05 [McCool]
... profile-abstract-1 also might have two sub-assertions
12:35:44 [McCool]
ml: then there is the a11y assertions
12:36:03 [McCool]
mm: these are relatively easy to satisfy, we just need people to state
12:37:11 [McCool]
dape: don't think we can say node-wot satisfies this...
12:37:41 [McCool]
mm: to be clear, node-wot is a framework for building things, we want to evaluate these on concrete Thing implementations
12:37:56 [McCool]
... so would be on, say, a coffee machine
12:38:09 [McCool]
dape: but from point of view of node-wot would never fulfill
12:38:31 [McCool]
... so hard to give it a "pass" from node-wot
12:38:46 [McCool]
ml: it is also a conditional requirement, IF you have a deployment
12:39:12 [McCool]
... that may be used by users with disabilities
12:39:30 [McCool]
... so a coffee machine built with node-wot can be compliant
12:39:38 [kaz]
present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
12:40:26 [McCool]
mm: again, node-wot by itself is not an implementation
12:40:43 [McCool]
dape: right, we need someone else *using* node-wot to be able to report on this
12:41:04 [kaz]
q+
12:41:18 [kaz]
ack d
12:41:44 [sebastian]
sebastian has joined #wot-profile
12:42:01 [McCool]
kaz: understand point, but want to understand dape's position; is like browser, provides general framework
12:42:54 [kaz]
ack k
12:43:12 [McCool]
... so should somehow consider node-wot an implementation
12:43:24 [kaz]
q+
12:43:47 [kaz]
ack k
12:44:21 [kaz]
s/not an implementation/not an implementation of "WoT Thing" or "WoT Consumer"/
12:45:44 [kaz]
s/an implementation/an implementation of WoT, though WoT by itself is not an implementation of "WoT Thing" or "WoT Consumer"./
12:45:59 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
12:46:03 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:46:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/11-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:46:57 [kaz]
s/again, node-wot by itself is not an implementation of "WoT Thing" or "WoT Consumer"/again, node-wot by itself is not an implementation/
12:47:00 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:47:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/11-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:47:32 [McCool]
ml: for all security schemes, is a problem
12:47:40 [kaz]
s/is like browser/is like Chromium for browser implementations/
12:47:40 [McCool]
mm: most probably it is oAuth
12:47:43 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:47:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/11-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:48:03 [McCool]
dape: yes, problem is schemes that require human input
12:49:10 [McCool]
mm: we could remove the security schemes that require human input... but keep e.g. the oAuth flows (I believe client) that don't
12:49:27 [McCool]
ml: let's create an issue to look into this
12:49:56 [McCool]
mm: I can do, will have to engage with Ben, since I think the code flow requirement came from Ben
12:50:16 [McCool]
... but will also think about how this relates to bearer tokens
12:50:59 [kaz]
s/oAuth/OAuth/
12:52:29 [McCool]
mm: security bootstrapping has PRs under discussion
12:53:01 [McCool]
... I think we need to clean up discovery vs. normal operation "auto"
12:53:07 [kaz]
chair: Lagally
12:53:09 [McCool]
ml: links
12:56:08 [McCool]
mm: we need to add some structure here to capture test results for each table row
12:56:25 [McCool]
... since it is unlikely that a single TD will have all of these link types, nor is it expected
12:56:42 [McCool]
... but we would expect a set of TDs that would "cover" these
12:57:07 [kaz]
q+
12:57:30 [McCool]
... suggest making child assertions for each row
12:57:40 [kaz]
ack k
12:58:15 [McCool]
kaz: would be good to improve the spec itself...
12:58:50 [McCool]
mm: in TD, table rows can be marked as assertions, but the format is different here
12:59:18 [McCool]
... but will see if I can figure out how to mark these up with at-risk formatting, etc.
13:00:42 [McCool]
... similar issue for media types
13:00:44 [kaz]
s/would be good to improve the spec itself.../agree that is important, and it would be nicer to improve the spec itself based on that structural clarification./
13:00:48 [kaz]
q+
13:01:01 [kaz]
q-
13:01:37 [kaz]
[adjourned]
13:01:42 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:01:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/11-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:01:54 [kaz]
present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura
13:01:56 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:01:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/11-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz