18:05:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
18:05:06 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/01/05-aria-irc
18:05:07 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
18:05:08 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
18:05:15 <jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
18:05:15 <agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
18:05:16 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2b92a902-1365-4ea0-8c68-9f8ae2106fe3/20230105T130000
18:05:16 <agendabot> clear agenda
18:05:16 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3ClLfRj
18:05:16 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3Zk4LYe
18:05:18 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates
18:05:21 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Clarify use case for aria-rowindex on cell/gridcell elements https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1853
18:05:24 <agendabot> agenda+  -> ARIA ACT Rules review https://github.com/w3c/aria/discussions/1850  - still only have 1 group review.
18:05:32 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Change aria-errormessage to ID reference list https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1802
18:05:32 <agendabot> agenda+  -> [normative][author] clarify widget in trees can only be group and treeitem https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1793  - what is the status of this?
18:05:34 <agendabot> agenda+  -> aria-haspopup at button should not change role https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/51
18:05:37 <agendabot> agenda+  -> 1.3 blocking issues https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A%22ARIA+1.3%22+sort%3Acreated-asc+label%3A1.3-Blocking+
18:05:47 <jamesn> regrets+ ValerieYoung
18:08:20 <jamesn> regrets+ SarahHigley
18:09:51 <MichaelC> present+
18:09:54 <MichaelC> scribe+
18:10:01 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
18:10:01 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3ClLfRj -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:11:09 <MarkMcCarthy> MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria
18:11:10 <Adam_Page> Adam_Page has joined #aria
18:12:38 <MichaelC> accname#179
18:12:54 <MichaelC> jamesn: agenda for next week
18:12:57 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
18:12:57 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3Zk4LYe -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:14:20 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/pull/158
18:14:23 <MichaelC> MichaelC to review
18:15:00 <MichaelC> scott: should we review stale PRs?
18:15:12 <MichaelC> jamesn: it´s a lot...
18:15:19 <MichaelC> but yeah, we gotta catch up
18:16:18 <MichaelC> will discuss with Valerie
18:16:28 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
18:16:28 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:17:00 <MichaelC> jamesn: any topics?
18:17:21 <MichaelC> scott: aria-haspopup - there´s been more discussion in thread
18:18:20 <MichaelC> we need to make some final decisions on it
18:18:56 <MichaelC> jamesn: for next week then
18:20:05 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1024
18:20:27 <MichaelC> scott: getting mixed feedback
18:20:33 <MichaelC> some people like it, some hate it
18:20:53 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
18:20:53 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- -> Clarify use case for aria-rowindex on cell/gridcell elements https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1853 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:21:25 <MichaelC> scott: defer, no action since last discussion
18:21:32 <MichaelC> zakim, close this item
18:21:32 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
18:21:33 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:21:33 <Zakim> 5. -> ARIA ACT Rules review https://github.com/w3c/aria/discussions/1850  - still only have 1 group review. [from agendabot]
18:21:37 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
18:21:37 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- -> ARIA ACT Rules review https://github.com/w3c/aria/discussions/1850  - still only have 1 group review. -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:21:47 <MichaelC> jamesn: only 1 review so far
18:21:52 <MichaelC> from Scott
18:21:59 <MichaelC> need people to look at these
18:22:13 <MichaelC> they´ll get added to a11y evaluation tools
18:22:25 <MichaelC> we want to know they´re good
18:22:34 <MichaelC> a quick thumbs up will help validate
18:22:40 <MichaelC> <volunteers>
18:22:55 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
18:22:55 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- -> Change aria-errormessage to ID reference list https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1802 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:23:19 <MichaelC> s/<volunteers>/<Adam & Cynthia volunteer>/
18:23:48 <MichaelC> james: any other reviewers?
18:24:00 <MichaelC> adam: will
18:24:21 <MichaelC> jamesn: we´ll look at tracking PR state through process better
18:24:46 <MichaelC> adam: will aria-errormessage start working?
18:25:02 <MichaelC> jamesn: well, will be in API; another question whether AT will support
18:25:20 <MichaelC> people working around by using aria-describedby, which isn´t great
18:26:22 <MichaelC> scott: maybe browser could detect aria-describedby and aria-errormessage reference the same thing, drop it on describeby
18:26:29 <MichaelC> cyns: will chat with Aaron
18:27:00 <MichaelC> jamesn: using aria-describedby for error messages is an anti-pattern
18:27:12 <MichaelC> scott: but it´s the only way up to now authors had
18:27:31 <MichaelC> jamesn: means users can´t turn off descriptions because of vital error messages
18:27:44 <MichaelC> scott: +1, want to move away from that, but also address duplicate messages in transition
18:27:56 <MichaelC> james: or AT do?
18:28:06 <MichaelC> cyns: if AT looking at markup, which is less often now
18:28:26 <MichaelC> jamesn: should be able to use both
18:28:32 <MichaelC> cyns: not sure all platforms have both
18:28:45 <MichaelC> jamesn: issues filed against ATs?
18:28:48 <MichaelC> cyns: can find out
18:29:53 <MichaelC> jamesn: would like a list of ARIA features implemented by browsers but not handled well by AT
18:30:01 <MichaelC> maybe deprecate features that aren´t getting updatek
18:30:10 <MichaelC> s/updatek/uptake/
18:32:26 <Adam_Page> present+
18:32:27 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
18:32:27 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- -> [normative][author] clarify widget in trees can only be group and treeitem https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1793  - what is the status of this? -- taken up [from
18:32:30 <Zakim> ... agendabot]
18:32:54 <MichaelC> jamesn: defer til right participants present
18:32:58 <MichaelC> zakim, close this item
18:32:58 <Zakim> agendum 7 closed
18:32:58 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:32:58 <Zakim> 8. -> aria-haspopup at button should not change role https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/51 [from agendabot]
18:32:59 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
18:32:59 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- -> aria-haspopup at button should not change role https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/51 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:33:50 <MichaelC> jamesn: appears to be concurrence with proposal
18:34:19 <MichaelC> there´s an old PR related to this I´ll merge or something
18:34:43 <MichaelC> proposal for next week´s discussion - @@
18:34:52 <MichaelC> scott: even if it were to go away, we want it fixed
18:35:21 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
18:35:21 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- -> 1.3 blocking issues https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A%22ARIA+1.3%22+sort%3Acreated-asc+label%3A1.3-Blocking+ -- taken up [from
18:35:24 <Zakim> ... agendabot]
18:35:39 <MichaelC> jamesn: defer for better quorum
18:36:24 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
18:36:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/05-aria-minutes.html MichaelC
18:37:03 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
18:37:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/05-aria-minutes.html MichaelC
18:39:39 <MichaelC> present+ Scott_O´Hara, Siri, Mark_McCarthy, Cyns, JamesN
18:39:51 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
18:39:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/05-aria-minutes.html MichaelC
18:41:26 <MichaelC> zakim, end meeting
18:41:26 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been MichaelC, Adam_Page, Scott_O´Hara, Siri, Mark_McCarthy, Cyns, JamesN
18:41:28 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:41:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/05-aria-minutes.html Zakim
18:42:05 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, MichaelC; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
18:42:05 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
18:44:34 <MichaelC> rrsagent, bye
18:44:34 <RRSAgent> I see no action items