11:02:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-arch
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11:03:27 <kaz> meeting: WoT Architecture/Profile
11:04:04 <ktoumura> ktoumura has joined #wot-arch
11:07:06 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool, Tomoaki_Mizushim
11:07:17 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
11:07:19 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot-arch
11:07:22 <kaz> present- Tomoaki_Mizuhim
11:07:55 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
11:08:25 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Architecture_WebConf#Architecture_.2B_Profile_-_Dec_8th.2C_2022
11:08:26 <kaz> topic: Minutes
11:08:36 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2022/12/07-wot-profile-minutes.html Dec-7
11:08:38 <kaz> approved
11:08:52 <kaz> topic: Agenda
11:09:09 <kaz> ml: Architecture: DTLS assertion, Test CSV
11:09:46 <kaz> ... Profile: WD, Testfest prep
11:10:45 <kaz> ... anything else?
11:10:46 <kaz> none
11:10:52 <kaz> topic: Architecture
11:10:58 <kaz> subtopic: PR 886
11:11:35 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/886 PR 886 - Revise (D)TLS-1-2 assertions
11:11:45 <kaz> mm: DTLS 1.2 is at risk
11:12:24 <kaz> -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-architecture/886/f2284ce...mmccool:fc228d7.html#sec-security-consideration-secure-transport diff - 10.5 Secure Transport
11:12:39 <kaz> s/1.2/1.3/
11:13:01 <kaz> mm: but should say "DTLS 1.2 SHOULD be supported"
11:13:12 <kaz> ... don't want to seay "MUST" here, though
11:13:27 <kaz> ... need to live with "SHOULD"
11:13:48 <kaz> s/"DTLS/"at least DTLS/
11:14:01 <kaz> ... what's your opinion?
11:15:10 <kaz> kaz: 2 options here
11:15:35 <kaz> ... opt 1. wait for the CR transition approval tomorrow, and explain this change after that for PR transition
11:16:05 <kaz> ... opt 2. explain this change within the CR transition request itself TODAY (=before the approval)
11:16:12 <kaz> mm: opt 1 sounds better
11:16:19 <kaz> ... but we need to add this change anyway
11:16:37 <kaz> ... there are 4 assertions related to this change
11:17:32 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/886/files files changed
11:17:40 <kaz> ml: also think it would be better to wait
11:18:15 <kaz> mm: we'll apply this change for Proposed REC then
11:18:35 <kaz> ... please don't merge this until then
11:18:50 <kaz> ml: (adds comments)
11:18:56 <kaz> zakim, who is on the call?
11:18:56 <Zakim> Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool, Tomoaki_Mizushim, Tomoaki_Mizushima
11:19:07 <kaz> present- Tomoaki_Mizushim
11:19:15 <kaz> present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura
11:19:32 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/886#issuecomment-1342561039 Lagally's comments
11:19:52 <kaz> subtopic: PR 884
11:20:07 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/884 PR 884 - Testing CSV cleanup
11:20:17 <kaz> mm: all the assertions for Architecture are manual
11:20:31 <kaz> ml: would merge this
11:20:45 <kaz> merged
11:21:18 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
11:21:22 <kaz> topic: Profile
11:21:28 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:21:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/08-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
11:21:57 <kaz> subtopic: PR 334
11:22:07 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/334 PR 334 - WIP: Provide example in the new introduction section
11:22:17 <kaz> mm: not for the CR but for the WD
11:22:37 <kaz> s/334/314/
11:22:40 <kaz> s/334/31/
11:23:10 <kaz> i|not for|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/314 PR 314 - Allow auto security scheme for other permitted security schemes|
11:23:19 <kaz> mm: HTTP has automatic negotiation
11:23:38 <kaz> ... so implementation is trivial
11:24:17 <kaz> ml: please add your comment on the PR
11:24:47 <kaz> s|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/314 PR 314 - WIP: Provide example in the new introduction section||
11:24:57 <kaz> s/subtopic: PR 334/subtopic: PR 314/
11:25:03 <kaz> subtopic: WD
11:25:11 <kaz> mm: will work on the ReSpec errors
11:25:25 <kaz> ... shouldn't too much left over
11:26:06 <kaz> ml: would expect some help for implementations
11:26:15 <kaz> mm: let's start with tools
11:26:38 <kaz> ... if any problems, may need to handle it next week
11:26:44 <kaz> ... anyway let me try
11:26:57 <kaz> subtopic: Profile Testfest prep
11:27:07 <kaz> ml: not really prepared for presentation...
11:27:14 <kaz> ... but testing implementations
11:27:15 <kaz> q+
11:27:50 <kaz> ack k
11:28:27 <kaz> kaz: we need to clarify the requirements/expectations for the testing first based on the W3C Process
11:28:29 <kaz> ml: ok
11:28:56 <kaz> ... let's capture the requirements on a README.md
11:29:19 <kaz> ... (creates a README.md under wot-profile/testing area)
11:31:02 <kaz> kaz: the title should be "Profile testing for CR/PR transition"
11:31:27 <kaz> ... the purpose of checking the implementability of each feature defined by the spec
11:33:25 <kaz> ... if there are assertions which define the behavior of a Consumer, we need to see that
11:33:39 <kaz> ... on the other hand, if there are assertions which define the behavior of a Thing, we need to see that
11:33:41 <kaz> mm: yes
11:34:28 <kaz> ... so it depends on the defined assertions
11:35:15 <kaz> kaz: it implies that if there is any mismatch between the behavior of the Consumer and the behavior of the Thing, we need to fix the assertions themselves
11:35:17 <kaz> mm: right
11:35:39 <kaz> ... the purpose of testing includes checking that kind of problems
11:36:01 <kaz> ml: (describes that kind of basic policy and requirements)
11:37:15 <kaz> ... (mentions validation of TDs against assertions)
11:37:39 <kaz> kaz: note that TD validation based on the JSON Schema is just a method to achieve the goal
11:37:58 <kaz> ... the main purpose is again the assertions defined by the spec itself
11:38:29 <kaz> mm: yes, including both the manually tested assertions and automatically tested assertions
11:38:50 <kaz> ml: ok
11:39:19 <kaz> ... regarding the TD related to testing, all the TDs should have been validated against the TD spec
11:40:31 <kaz> mm: if you have webhook interface, the TD is provided by a Thing
11:40:44 <kaz> ... and to be consumed by a Consumer
11:41:08 <kaz> ... what is still missing is categorization of assertions
11:41:32 <kaz> ... someone need to look into all the assertions and categorize them
11:42:49 <kaz> ml: (look into the wot-webthing-comparison.csv)
11:42:59 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/blob/main/testing/wot-webthing-comparison.csv wot-webthing-comparison.csv
11:43:08 <kaz> mm: can you go back to inputs?
11:43:37 <kaz> ... categories.csv is currently empty
11:43:47 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/blob/main/testing/inputs/categories.csv categories.csv
11:44:08 <kaz> mm: we need to categories which assertions are which (Consumer/Thing)
11:44:29 <kaz> ... the trouble is manual.csv
11:44:52 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/blob/main/testing/manual.csv manual.csv
11:45:17 <kaz> mm: don't like a big table like this because we tend to miss some of the lines/fields
11:45:35 <kaz> q+
11:46:55 <kaz> ack k
11:47:10 <kaz> kaz: data validation is rather preparation for the test
11:47:34 <kaz> ... the test itself should start with categorization of Thing vs Consumer as McCool said
11:48:15 <kaz> ... we should split the README.md into two sections, 1. preparation including data validation and 2. testing including data categorization
11:48:27 <kaz> s/preparation for the/pre-processing for the/
11:49:37 <kaz> ml: (adds "for details (of the data validation), see instructions in the Testfest README")
11:50:17 <kaz> ... (then goes back to manual.csv)
11:50:50 <kaz> s/manual.csv/wot-webthing-comparison.csv/
11:51:07 <kaz> ... maybe we need some naming convention
11:51:43 <kaz> mm: need to identify each assertion as Thing, Consumer or both
11:52:23 <kaz> i|maybe we|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/blob/main/testing/wot-webthing-comparison.csv wot-webthing-comparison.csv
11:53:00 <kaz> q?
11:53:03 <kaz> q+
11:53:44 <kaz> ack k
11:54:14 <kaz> kaz: why don't we simply add a column to identify which assertion is for Thing, Consumer of both?
11:54:17 <kaz> mm: yeah
11:54:26 <kaz> ... we need to add a column anyway
11:54:39 <kaz> s/to identify/to manual.csv to identify/
11:54:45 <kaz> ml: ok
11:55:01 <kaz> ... let's not add files to identify the categories then
11:55:24 <kaz> mm: so we'll use an additional column to identify the category
11:55:28 <kaz> ml: right
11:56:22 <kaz> s/an additional column/categories.csv/
11:57:05 <kaz> mm: we can avoid to make people confused with manual.csv by that approach
11:57:07 <kaz> kaz: ok
11:57:15 <kaz> s/avoid to make/avoid making/
11:58:07 <kaz> s/we need to add a column anyway/we need to identify the categories anyway, but.../
11:58:33 <kaz> s/... we need/mm: we need/
11:58:39 <kaz> s/mm: yeah//
11:58:44 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
11:58:50 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:58:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/08-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
11:59:31 <kaz> ml: after that we should verify Thing assertions and Consumer assertions respectively
11:59:34 <kaz> q?
11:59:35 <kaz> q+
11:59:57 <kaz> mm: we need two implementations for each assertion
12:00:30 <kaz> ... do we need actual pairs?
12:02:30 <kaz> kaz: the original expectation is checking the implementability of each assertion
12:03:19 <kaz> ... so the expectation and requirement of the spec assertions is "a specific pair of a Thing and a Consumer interact with each other like this", we need to have a pair at once
12:04:04 <kaz> ... but if the spec says "the Thing in general provides something like this" and "the Consumer handles the TD like this" separately, we can check those assertions separately
12:04:08 <kaz> q?
12:04:10 <kaz> ack k
12:04:30 <kaz> mm: I'll work on the categorization
12:04:34 <kaz> kaz: tx!
12:04:37 <kaz> [adjourned]
12:04:52 <kaz> s/categorization/categorization then/
12:04:57 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:04:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/08-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz