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11:59:45 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/12/08-coga-irc
11:59:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:59:48 <Lisa> agenda?
11:59:50 <trackbot> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
11:59:50 <trackbot> Date: 08 December 2022
12:00:09 <Lisa> clear agenda
12:00:22 <Lisa> agenda+  https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list
12:00:59 <Lisa> agenda+ updates (actions next week)
12:01:06 <Lisa> agenda+ do we want to move subgroup meeting
12:05:47 <Lisa> action+ suggestions for content useable. what issues do you have.   suggestions : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit#heading=h.n0fokyoqn5xe    content useable: https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/
12:07:05 <Lisa> agenda+ if time:  actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit
12:07:15 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
12:07:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/08-coga-minutes.html Lisa
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14:49:35 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
14:49:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/08-coga-minutes.html Lisa
14:52:16 <Lisa> regrets: David swallow, Roy, John k, EA, Becca, Abby, Poorima,Aaron
14:52:26 <Lisa> agenda?
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15:02:37 <Lisa> no quarum
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15:03:50 <Lisa> scribe:  julierawe
15:03:53 <Lisa> next item
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15:04:03 <Lisa> borderline quarum
15:04:12 <julierawe> Lisa: This is very small meeting. Borderling quorum. Any decisions should go to the list.
15:04:25 <Lisa> next item
15:04:32 <Lisa> close item 1
15:04:36 <Lisa> next item
15:05:05 <julierawe> Lisa: How did it go with EO?
15:05:18 <julierawe> Kris Anne: Nothing other than what I emailed yesterday.
15:05:26 <julierawe> Kris Anne: Kevin appreciated the feedback.
15:05:43 <julierawe> Kris Anne: The production company had additional footage that was already shot.
15:06:04 <julierawe> Kris Anne: For some of the scenes, we can replace with other footage.
15:06:18 <julierawe> Kris Anne: I think all of the issues Julie brought from COGA can be fixed.
15:06:41 <julierawe> Kris Anne: Fixing Elias having conversation with his daughter, for example.
15:06:59 <Lisa> present+
15:07:01 <julierawe> Kris Anne: We are supposed to get another look at one of the videos. One of the videos we have decided to cut out entirely, but not one that COGA commented on.
15:07:28 <julierawe> Kris Anne: We've been told from the production company that all of the actors had a wonderful time being part of this.
15:07:37 <julierawe> present+
15:07:46 <krisanne> present+
15:07:52 <julierawe> Lisa: Thanks to Julie for organizing the comments.
15:08:05 <Lisa> kris anne: hufe thanks to Julie and coga
15:08:07 <julierawe> Kris Anne: We didn't have much time so thankful for your flexibility.
15:08:09 <Lisa> +1
15:08:29 <Lisa> +1 to thanking julie
15:09:18 <julierawe> Julie: Reiterating concerns about white male for autism video
15:09:41 <julierawe> Kris Anne: Part of the issue with recruiting in general. We gave them the names and genders for the personas we had.
15:10:31 <julierawe> Kris Anne: I know Ian's race and gender was raised as an issue, but given the constraints of the recruitment, this is how this fell into place.
15:10:51 <julierawe> Kris Anne: They do have footage of him speaking his name, some different footage of the kitchen, etc.
15:11:05 <julierawe> Lisa: Any other updates/
15:11:18 <Lisa> next item
15:12:09 <julierawe> Lisa: We're moving this call to Mondays starting in January. 8am West Coast, 11am East Coast.
15:12:30 <julierawe> Lisa: We could keep the subgroup meeting at the same time--11am East Coast on Thursdays.
15:12:55 <julierawe> Lisa: Rashmi, Abbey and Becca can't make it then, but I don't have an obvious slot to move it to.
15:13:14 <julierawe> Lisa: We could move the mental health subgroup to earlier on a Thursday.
15:13:44 <julierawe> Lisa: We could also try to have it the hour before or after the new meeting time on Mondays.
15:14:11 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1n71iOu4QazmnY-nTbQFKO18qIfbXXVwtjTPQswx7w5Q/edit#gid=0
15:14:55 <julierawe> Julie: Do we want to have same time each week for all the subgroups?
15:15:16 <julierawe> Lisa: When we had different times for different subgroups, people could have COGA meetings every day of the week. Also harder to track that way.
15:15:27 <julierawe> Lisa: Easier to remember—same day, same time.
15:15:51 <julierawe> Lisa: One of the problems with having straight after the COGA call is I am very tired by the time we get to the subgroup meeting.
15:16:06 <julierawe> q+
15:16:42 <julierawe> Rashmi: It's 8:45pm for me now
15:16:52 <julierawe> Lisa: I don't like doing any calls after 8pm
15:17:26 <julierawe> Lisa: Julie, do you find it useful to have on the same day?
15:18:47 <julierawe> Julie: Can we have subgroup meet the hour before new COGA meeting on Mondays?
15:19:26 <julierawe> Lisa: Maybe I could attend half of the subgroup meeting and then take a break before the COGA meeting?
15:19:31 <julierawe> Lisa: We could try it
15:19:58 <julierawe> Lisa: We don't have enough people to decide this now. But let's bring it up also in the mental health subgroup meeting.
15:19:59 <Lisa> next item
15:20:13 <Lisa> Q?
15:20:15 <julierawe> q-
15:20:19 <Lisa> ack next
15:20:31 <Lisa> ack next
15:20:35 <Lisa> next item
15:20:49 <Lisa> agenda?
15:21:11 <julierawe> Lisa: I have lost an item on the agenda. What I wanted to do in the bulk of today's meeting is discuss user needs
15:21:13 <julierawe> q+
15:21:36 <Lisa> agenda+ sujections for content useable
15:22:34 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tOZurqOlJ3B3wUQmnxkP4B3PjAb3FiLEP2jIMtpm7lo/copy
15:22:42 <Lisa> rains copy
15:22:48 <julierawe> Julie: I recommend to Rashmi and Kris Anne and others to do Rain's card-sorting exercise
15:23:10 <julierawe> Lisa: the first thing you do is make a copy of Rain's document
15:23:22 <julierawe> Lisa: I'm not going to do it because I might skew the results
15:23:45 <julierawe> Kris Anne: I have added it to my to-do list and will try to get to ti
15:23:50 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1-VdpaYq0qLk0bZYryimWb-VL_tlklX-D1Uvtd2btzrw/edit
15:24:02 <julierawe> Lisa: Reminder of our research survey, please tweet about it
15:24:13 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc4ugu4iWRlEQ84-NWJmaiwtVWkXD1mhdCxB6MMy8N_mT56Bg/viewform?usp=pp_url
15:24:35 <julierawe> Lisa: We've only got 15 responses so far—we could really use more responses to make it useful
15:24:50 <Lisa> text to send it out https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xXjHPCfWm00iAJqmjdwFq_RQ80vKwwxFAoiEGI3NOlM/edit#gid=1485617472
15:25:05 <julierawe> Lisa: Please tweet about it. We also have a spreadsheet with suggested/sample language for sharing on Twitter, LinkedIn, with your workplace, etc
15:25:29 <julierawe> Lisa: EO might be interested in filling it out. They're a very good audience for it. If they don't find it useful, we're doing something wrong.
15:25:29 <Lisa> next item
15:25:33 <Lisa> q?
15:25:41 <Lisa> ack next
15:25:47 <Lisa> next item
15:26:06 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit#
15:26:33 <julierawe> Lisa: Shawn said he uses F1 to search Making Content Usable
15:27:04 <julierawe> Lisa: He really liked it as one document and hates making it expandable sections because it's more steps to read them
15:27:14 <julierawe> Lisa: I don't think we captured that in our user needs
15:27:27 <julierawe> Lisa: It hit home that we haven't got all the user needs
15:27:36 <rashmi> q+
15:27:42 <julierawe> Lisa: There are only 4 of us on the call today
15:28:03 <Lisa> ack next
15:28:16 <julierawe> Rashmi: I want to share my screen
15:28:49 <julierawe> Rashmi: This is a train-ticket booking site,
15:29:04 <julierawe> q+
15:29:46 <julierawe> Rashmi: When I press the "continue" button, it wasn't continuing and I found the error message "Please enter valid captcha"
15:30:07 <julierawe> Rashmi: The error message was very far away from everything else. Proximity needed.
15:31:03 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit#
15:31:09 <julierawe> Rashmi: Also, the control should not be buried under distracting material, such as an ad
15:31:23 <julierawe> Lisa: This is such a good example. Please make a screengrab.
15:31:43 <julierawe> Lisa: For proximity, we have things that are close, but we haven't said where error messages should go.
15:32:24 <julierawe> Lisa: I often get caught up I press "Next" three times and I look for an error message at the top of the page. But a lot of people won't know to look up at the top of the page for the error message so they just keep pressing "Next"
15:32:51 <julierawe> Rashmi: Also, on this page everything was floating/moving
15:33:19 <julierawe> Lisa: The groups of control. This is a perfect example of a pattern we already have for groupings of controls so it's very clear what belongs to what
15:33:28 <julierawe> Lisa: This is an excellent example of what not to do.
15:33:58 <julierawe> Lisa: A new pattern might be where should error messages be
15:34:21 <julierawe> Lisa: Kiki joined us, hi kiki
15:34:47 <Lisa> ack next
15:36:03 <julierawe> Julie: Differences in preferences. Shawn prefers one long, easily searchable scroll. I prefer getting overview and expanding drawers to dig deeper.
15:36:21 <julierawe> Lisa: We have examples of adaptation, personalization, but we didn't include Shawn's preference
15:36:50 <julierawe> Lisa: If you're on the bus, you may want to hit "play," close your eyes and listen
15:37:06 <julierawe> Lisa: It might be something we add to an existing objective or create a new one.
15:37:11 <julierawe> Lisa: Any other suggestions?
15:38:09 <julierawe> Kiki: For people with ADHD or dyslexia, trouble choosing when choice is unguided
15:38:31 <julierawe> Kiki: They should have been asked one question first rather than being given all the choices at once—can be overwhelming
15:38:40 <julierawe> Kiki: So giving structure to choices
15:39:11 <julierawe> Lisa: Do you have research you can share?
15:39:20 <julierawe> Kiki: Not sure I can share
15:39:26 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit#
15:39:38 <julierawe> Kiki: I can try to find other research on it
15:40:17 <julierawe> Lisa: Structured decisionmaking, hierarchy, helping people get ready for tasks
15:40:31 <julierawe> Lisa: You're saying 'Structure a task"
15:40:41 <julierawe> Lisa: Is that always true? Or is that a preference?
15:41:01 <Lisa> annalisis paralisis with adhd
15:41:03 <julierawe> Kiki: Analysis paralysis for people with ADHD — their brain just stops when there are too many choices
15:41:51 <julierawe> Lisa: I'm jotting down this term
15:42:08 <julierawe> Kiki: Where should I drop this into this document?
15:42:40 <julierawe> Lisa: That's great
15:43:29 <julierawe> Lisa: Anything else?
15:43:46 <Lisa> Q?
15:44:04 <julierawe> Lisa: Let's continue this conversation next week when we have more people on the call.
15:44:50 <julierawe> Lisa: We have a following call with the mental health subgroup in 15 minutes. We can break now or is there something people want to bring up before then?
15:44:54 <julierawe> +1
15:45:18 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
15:45:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/08-coga-minutes.html Lisa
15:45:21 <julierawe> Lisa: Thank you, Julie, for scribing
15:45:37 <Lisa> clear agenda
15:45:39 <Lisa> topic: mental health
15:45:42 <julierawe> Thank you all--have a good week!
16:16:39 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bHMw35rSEuThUMa3h2naTXRRJzzAvBYNhdtkUBx7bZ0/edit
16:22:43 <Lisa> add non mental heath suhggestiosn to https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit#
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