IRC log of coga on 2022-12-08
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 11:59:45 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #coga
- 11:59:45 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/12/08-coga-irc
- 11:59:47 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 11:59:48 [Lisa]
- agenda?
- 11:59:50 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
- 11:59:50 [trackbot]
- Date: 08 December 2022
- 12:00:09 [Lisa]
- clear agenda
- 12:00:22 [Lisa]
- agenda+ https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list
- 12:00:59 [Lisa]
- agenda+ updates (actions next week)
- 12:01:06 [Lisa]
- agenda+ do we want to move subgroup meeting
- 12:05:47 [Lisa]
- action+ suggestions for content useable. what issues do you have. suggestions : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit#heading=h.n0fokyoqn5xe content useable: https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/
- 12:07:05 [Lisa]
- agenda+ if time: actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit
- 12:07:15 [Lisa]
- RRSAgent, publish minutes
- 12:07:15 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/08-coga-minutes.html Lisa
- 12:42:24 [ShawnT]
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- 14:39:21 [Lisa]
- Lisa has joined #Coga
- 14:49:35 [Lisa]
- RRSAgent, publish minutes
- 14:49:35 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/08-coga-minutes.html Lisa
- 14:52:16 [Lisa]
- regrets: David swallow, Roy, John k, EA, Becca, Abby, Poorima,Aaron
- 14:52:26 [Lisa]
- agenda?
- 14:54:40 [rashmi]
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- 15:00:20 [ShawnT]
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- 15:02:37 [Lisa]
- no quarum
- 15:02:49 [julierawe]
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- 15:03:50 [Lisa]
- scribe: julierawe
- 15:03:53 [Lisa]
- next item
- 15:04:03 [krisanne]
- krisanne has joined #coga
- 15:04:03 [Lisa]
- borderline quarum
- 15:04:12 [julierawe]
- Lisa: This is very small meeting. Borderling quorum. Any decisions should go to the list.
- 15:04:25 [Lisa]
- next item
- 15:04:32 [Lisa]
- close item 1
- 15:04:36 [Lisa]
- next item
- 15:05:05 [julierawe]
- Lisa: How did it go with EO?
- 15:05:18 [julierawe]
- Kris Anne: Nothing other than what I emailed yesterday.
- 15:05:26 [julierawe]
- Kris Anne: Kevin appreciated the feedback.
- 15:05:43 [julierawe]
- Kris Anne: The production company had additional footage that was already shot.
- 15:06:04 [julierawe]
- Kris Anne: For some of the scenes, we can replace with other footage.
- 15:06:18 [julierawe]
- Kris Anne: I think all of the issues Julie brought from COGA can be fixed.
- 15:06:41 [julierawe]
- Kris Anne: Fixing Elias having conversation with his daughter, for example.
- 15:06:59 [Lisa]
- present+
- 15:07:01 [julierawe]
- Kris Anne: We are supposed to get another look at one of the videos. One of the videos we have decided to cut out entirely, but not one that COGA commented on.
- 15:07:28 [julierawe]
- Kris Anne: We've been told from the production company that all of the actors had a wonderful time being part of this.
- 15:07:37 [julierawe]
- present+
- 15:07:46 [krisanne]
- present+
- 15:07:52 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Thanks to Julie for organizing the comments.
- 15:08:05 [Lisa]
- kris anne: hufe thanks to Julie and coga
- 15:08:07 [julierawe]
- Kris Anne: We didn't have much time so thankful for your flexibility.
- 15:08:09 [Lisa]
- +1
- 15:08:29 [Lisa]
- +1 to thanking julie
- 15:09:18 [julierawe]
- Julie: Reiterating concerns about white male for autism video
- 15:09:41 [julierawe]
- Kris Anne: Part of the issue with recruiting in general. We gave them the names and genders for the personas we had.
- 15:10:31 [julierawe]
- Kris Anne: I know Ian's race and gender was raised as an issue, but given the constraints of the recruitment, this is how this fell into place.
- 15:10:51 [julierawe]
- Kris Anne: They do have footage of him speaking his name, some different footage of the kitchen, etc.
- 15:11:05 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Any other updates/
- 15:11:18 [Lisa]
- next item
- 15:12:09 [julierawe]
- Lisa: We're moving this call to Mondays starting in January. 8am West Coast, 11am East Coast.
- 15:12:30 [julierawe]
- Lisa: We could keep the subgroup meeting at the same time--11am East Coast on Thursdays.
- 15:12:55 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Rashmi, Abbey and Becca can't make it then, but I don't have an obvious slot to move it to.
- 15:13:14 [julierawe]
- Lisa: We could move the mental health subgroup to earlier on a Thursday.
- 15:13:44 [julierawe]
- Lisa: We could also try to have it the hour before or after the new meeting time on Mondays.
- 15:14:11 [Lisa]
- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1n71iOu4QazmnY-nTbQFKO18qIfbXXVwtjTPQswx7w5Q/edit#gid=0
- 15:14:55 [julierawe]
- Julie: Do we want to have same time each week for all the subgroups?
- 15:15:16 [julierawe]
- Lisa: When we had different times for different subgroups, people could have COGA meetings every day of the week. Also harder to track that way.
- 15:15:27 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Easier to remember—same day, same time.
- 15:15:51 [julierawe]
- Lisa: One of the problems with having straight after the COGA call is I am very tired by the time we get to the subgroup meeting.
- 15:16:06 [julierawe]
- q+
- 15:16:42 [julierawe]
- Rashmi: It's 8:45pm for me now
- 15:16:52 [julierawe]
- Lisa: I don't like doing any calls after 8pm
- 15:17:26 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Julie, do you find it useful to have on the same day?
- 15:18:47 [julierawe]
- Julie: Can we have subgroup meet the hour before new COGA meeting on Mondays?
- 15:19:26 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Maybe I could attend half of the subgroup meeting and then take a break before the COGA meeting?
- 15:19:31 [julierawe]
- Lisa: We could try it
- 15:19:58 [julierawe]
- Lisa: We don't have enough people to decide this now. But let's bring it up also in the mental health subgroup meeting.
- 15:19:59 [Lisa]
- next item
- 15:20:13 [Lisa]
- Q?
- 15:20:15 [julierawe]
- q-
- 15:20:19 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 15:20:31 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 15:20:35 [Lisa]
- next item
- 15:20:49 [Lisa]
- agenda?
- 15:21:11 [julierawe]
- Lisa: I have lost an item on the agenda. What I wanted to do in the bulk of today's meeting is discuss user needs
- 15:21:13 [julierawe]
- q+
- 15:21:36 [Lisa]
- agenda+ sujections for content useable
- 15:22:34 [Lisa]
- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tOZurqOlJ3B3wUQmnxkP4B3PjAb3FiLEP2jIMtpm7lo/copy
- 15:22:42 [Lisa]
- rains copy
- 15:22:48 [julierawe]
- Julie: I recommend to Rashmi and Kris Anne and others to do Rain's card-sorting exercise
- 15:23:10 [julierawe]
- Lisa: the first thing you do is make a copy of Rain's document
- 15:23:22 [julierawe]
- Lisa: I'm not going to do it because I might skew the results
- 15:23:45 [julierawe]
- Kris Anne: I have added it to my to-do list and will try to get to ti
- 15:23:50 [Lisa]
- https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1-VdpaYq0qLk0bZYryimWb-VL_tlklX-D1Uvtd2btzrw/edit
- 15:24:02 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Reminder of our research survey, please tweet about it
- 15:24:13 [Lisa]
- https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc4ugu4iWRlEQ84-NWJmaiwtVWkXD1mhdCxB6MMy8N_mT56Bg/viewform?usp=pp_url
- 15:24:35 [julierawe]
- Lisa: We've only got 15 responses so far—we could really use more responses to make it useful
- 15:24:50 [Lisa]
- text to send it out https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xXjHPCfWm00iAJqmjdwFq_RQ80vKwwxFAoiEGI3NOlM/edit#gid=1485617472
- 15:25:05 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Please tweet about it. We also have a spreadsheet with suggested/sample language for sharing on Twitter, LinkedIn, with your workplace, etc
- 15:25:29 [julierawe]
- Lisa: EO might be interested in filling it out. They're a very good audience for it. If they don't find it useful, we're doing something wrong.
- 15:25:29 [Lisa]
- next item
- 15:25:33 [Lisa]
- q?
- 15:25:41 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 15:25:47 [Lisa]
- next item
- 15:26:06 [Lisa]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit#
- 15:26:33 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Shawn said he uses F1 to search Making Content Usable
- 15:27:04 [julierawe]
- Lisa: He really liked it as one document and hates making it expandable sections because it's more steps to read them
- 15:27:14 [julierawe]
- Lisa: I don't think we captured that in our user needs
- 15:27:27 [julierawe]
- Lisa: It hit home that we haven't got all the user needs
- 15:27:36 [rashmi]
- q+
- 15:27:42 [julierawe]
- Lisa: There are only 4 of us on the call today
- 15:28:03 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 15:28:16 [julierawe]
- Rashmi: I want to share my screen
- 15:28:49 [julierawe]
- Rashmi: This is a train-ticket booking site,
- 15:29:04 [julierawe]
- q+
- 15:29:46 [julierawe]
- Rashmi: When I press the "continue" button, it wasn't continuing and I found the error message "Please enter valid captcha"
- 15:30:07 [julierawe]
- Rashmi: The error message was very far away from everything else. Proximity needed.
- 15:31:03 [Lisa]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit#
- 15:31:09 [julierawe]
- Rashmi: Also, the control should not be buried under distracting material, such as an ad
- 15:31:23 [julierawe]
- Lisa: This is such a good example. Please make a screengrab.
- 15:31:43 [julierawe]
- Lisa: For proximity, we have things that are close, but we haven't said where error messages should go.
- 15:32:24 [julierawe]
- Lisa: I often get caught up I press "Next" three times and I look for an error message at the top of the page. But a lot of people won't know to look up at the top of the page for the error message so they just keep pressing "Next"
- 15:32:51 [julierawe]
- Rashmi: Also, on this page everything was floating/moving
- 15:33:19 [julierawe]
- Lisa: The groups of control. This is a perfect example of a pattern we already have for groupings of controls so it's very clear what belongs to what
- 15:33:28 [julierawe]
- Lisa: This is an excellent example of what not to do.
- 15:33:58 [julierawe]
- Lisa: A new pattern might be where should error messages be
- 15:34:21 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Kiki joined us, hi kiki
- 15:34:47 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 15:36:03 [julierawe]
- Julie: Differences in preferences. Shawn prefers one long, easily searchable scroll. I prefer getting overview and expanding drawers to dig deeper.
- 15:36:21 [julierawe]
- Lisa: We have examples of adaptation, personalization, but we didn't include Shawn's preference
- 15:36:50 [julierawe]
- Lisa: If you're on the bus, you may want to hit "play," close your eyes and listen
- 15:37:06 [julierawe]
- Lisa: It might be something we add to an existing objective or create a new one.
- 15:37:11 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Any other suggestions?
- 15:38:09 [julierawe]
- Kiki: For people with ADHD or dyslexia, trouble choosing when choice is unguided
- 15:38:31 [julierawe]
- Kiki: They should have been asked one question first rather than being given all the choices at once—can be overwhelming
- 15:38:40 [julierawe]
- Kiki: So giving structure to choices
- 15:39:11 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Do you have research you can share?
- 15:39:20 [julierawe]
- Kiki: Not sure I can share
- 15:39:26 [Lisa]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit#
- 15:39:38 [julierawe]
- Kiki: I can try to find other research on it
- 15:40:17 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Structured decisionmaking, hierarchy, helping people get ready for tasks
- 15:40:31 [julierawe]
- Lisa: You're saying 'Structure a task"
- 15:40:41 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Is that always true? Or is that a preference?
- 15:41:01 [Lisa]
- annalisis paralisis with adhd
- 15:41:03 [julierawe]
- Kiki: Analysis paralysis for people with ADHD — their brain just stops when there are too many choices
- 15:41:51 [julierawe]
- Lisa: I'm jotting down this term
- 15:42:08 [julierawe]
- Kiki: Where should I drop this into this document?
- 15:42:40 [julierawe]
- Lisa: That's great
- 15:43:29 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Anything else?
- 15:43:46 [Lisa]
- Q?
- 15:44:04 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Let's continue this conversation next week when we have more people on the call.
- 15:44:50 [julierawe]
- Lisa: We have a following call with the mental health subgroup in 15 minutes. We can break now or is there something people want to bring up before then?
- 15:44:54 [julierawe]
- +1
- 15:45:18 [Lisa]
- RRSAgent, publish minutes
- 15:45:18 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/08-coga-minutes.html Lisa
- 15:45:21 [julierawe]
- Lisa: Thank you, Julie, for scribing
- 15:45:37 [Lisa]
- clear agenda
- 15:45:39 [Lisa]
- topic: mental health
- 15:45:42 [julierawe]
- Thank you all--have a good week!
- 16:16:39 [Lisa]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bHMw35rSEuThUMa3h2naTXRRJzzAvBYNhdtkUBx7bZ0/edit
- 16:22:43 [Lisa]
- add non mental heath suhggestiosn to https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit#
- 18:00:29 [Zakim]
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