14:41:57 RRSAgent has joined #forms 14:41:57 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/12/02-forms-irc 14:41:59 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:41:59 Zakim has joined #forms 14:42:01 Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference 14:42:01 Date: 02 December 2022 14:42:23 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Dec/0001 14:42:38 Chair: Steven 14:42:38 Previous Meeting: https://www.w3.org/2022/11/25-forms-minutes 14:43:00 rrsagent, make minutes 14:43:00 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/02-forms-minutes.html Steven 14:50:20 Alain has joined #forms 14:58:44 ebruchez has joined #forms 14:58:56 Present: Alain, Erik, Steven 15:00:19 Topic: ACTION-2325: Steven and Erik, check the new submit-ready text 15:00:19 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Oct/0009 15:00:24 Erik: Continues 15:00:35 Topic: ACTION-2314: Compose text that matches the discussion for 15:00:35 mirroring (Steven) 15:00:35 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Dec/0000 15:04:35 "Either side can bind to an attribute 15:04:35 (https://www.w3.org/2022/11/11-forms-minutes#t01), 15:04:35 but in that case both have to bind to a text node, 15:04:35 and the embedded form's referenced item must not have children. 15:04:35 QUESTION: And vice versa?" 15:04:50 Alain: I would think so. 15:05:04 Steven: I agree, but I wanted to check we all had the same agreement. 15:05:43 "QUESTION: How do we determine if the embedded form gets initialised from 15:05:43 the referenced data 15:05:43 or from its own data? Use heuristics, or should the element " 15:05:43 specify that? 15:07:12 Steven: I think there is a good reason for the element to specify which direction the initialisation comes from (the current proposal in the spec specifies it from the element) 15:07:28 Erik: Probably better to be explicit. 15:07:47 ... in our implementation, mirroring only happens for complex content. 15:08:16 ... we can also specify that a binding works like 15:10:08 Steven: From what you just described it sounds like there are three values for where initialisation comes from: external, internal, none. 15:10:36 Erik: I think it should be a dynamic, not static. 15:10:41 Steven: Use case? 15:11:55 Erik: Sub-form where the embedded form submits/stores the data; in some cases the outer form already has data, in other cases not. 15:12:13 ... it also depends on when the embedded form gets initialised in the life-cycle 15:13:27 ... sub-forms get initialised during the first refresh. 15:13:36 ... seems to make sense. 15:13:57 ... that's why we need heuristics. 15:14:13 ... to prevent overwriting data. 15:14:52 Steven: That seems then still to need thought about how we specify initialisation.... 15:15:50 ... but that does answer the question about XForms-ready. which happens after the initial refresh. 15:16:51 Erik: The alternative would be to defer xforms-ready until after the sub-forms are ready 15:17:16 Alain: We have a different event for sub-forms, because we use to load sub-forms. 15:19:44 Steven: I have a similar use case with the XForms test suite, where I load a subform with an iframe with an attribute value 15:20:00 Alain: Can you communicate with an iframe. 15:20:08 Steven: I don;t knwo yet. Possibly. 15:20:12 s/;/' 15:20:20 s/knwo/know/ 15:20:48 Alain: It's the way to specify an app with a single page 15:21:44 ... is iframe deprecated? 15:21:54 Steven: Oh! Hadn't heard. 15:22:04 ACTION: Steven to find out if iframe is deprecated. 15:22:05 Created ACTION-2326 - Find out if iframe is deprecated. [on Steven Pemberton - due 2022-12-09]. 15:23:11 "Question: If there is a binding mismatch, an xforms-bind-error is dispatched. 15:23:11 QUESTION: On the embedder side?" 15:23:22 Alain: the parent form 15:23:33 Steven: That was my feeling too. 15:23:40 https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/iframe 15:23:44 Erik: Makes sense. 15:24:10 "QUESTION: Which is better? 15:24:10 1. Events targeted to and perform the same, 15:24:10 and so bubble up from the or in the dispatching 15:24:10 form, 15:24:10 therefore appearing in both forms. 15:24:10 2. The and elements have magic so that if they are 15:24:10 targeted, 15:24:12 the events neither bubble nor capture on the dispatching side. 15:24:12 3. We introduce a new action, say with comparable attributes to 15:24:12 15:24:12 which causes a to happen on the other side of the 15:24:12 interface, 15:24:12 so that the event only appears in the form being signalled to. 15:24:13 4. Something else?" 15:25:58 Steven: I think we agreed that 1. is not desirable. 15:26:50 ... my gut feeling is that 3. is preferable. 15:27:00 Erik: I don't like 3. 15:29:04 ... there are two sides. From the embedded form I have less of a problem. It is clear you want to dispatch an event to the outside. 15:34:26 Steven: I'm trying to find a way to specify it that would allow different implementations. 15:50:31 [Long discussion of implementation techniques, where the scribe was deeply involved] 15:52:58 Alain: We could use the