IRC log of forms on 2022-12-02

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14:41:57 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/12/02-forms-irc
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RRSAgent, make logs public
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14:42:01 [trackbot]
Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
14:42:01 [trackbot]
Date: 02 December 2022
14:42:23 [Steven]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Dec/0001
14:42:38 [Steven]
Chair: Steven
14:42:38 [Steven]
Previous Meeting: https://www.w3.org/2022/11/25-forms-minutes
14:43:00 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:43:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/02-forms-minutes.html Steven
14:50:20 [Alain]
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14:58:44 [ebruchez]
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14:58:56 [Steven]
Present: Alain, Erik, Steven
15:00:19 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION-2325: Steven and Erik, check the new submit-ready text
15:00:19 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Oct/0009
15:00:24 [Steven]
Erik: Continues
15:00:35 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION-2314: Compose text that matches the <control/> discussion for
15:00:35 [Steven]
mirroring (Steven)
15:00:35 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Dec/0000
15:04:35 [Steven]
"Either side can bind to an attribute
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(https://www.w3.org/2022/11/11-forms-minutes#t01),
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but in that case both have to bind to a text node,
15:04:35 [Steven]
and the embedded form's referenced item must not have children.
15:04:35 [Steven]
QUESTION: And vice versa?"
15:04:50 [Steven]
Alain: I would think so.
15:05:04 [Steven]
Steven: I agree, but I wanted to check we all had the same agreement.
15:05:43 [Steven]
"QUESTION: How do we determine if the embedded form gets initialised from
15:05:43 [Steven]
the referenced data
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or from its own data? Use heuristics, or should the <interface/> element "
15:05:43 [Steven]
specify that?
15:07:12 [Steven]
Steven: I think there is a good reason for the <interface/> element to specify which direction the initialisation comes from (the current proposal in the spec specifies it from the <control/> element)
15:07:28 [Steven]
Erik: Probably better to be explicit.
15:07:47 [Steven]
... in our implementation, mirroring only happens for complex content.
15:08:16 [Steven]
... we can also specify that a binding works like <input/>
15:10:08 [Steven]
Steven: From what you just described it sounds like there are three values for where initialisation comes from: external, internal, none.
15:10:36 [Steven]
Erik: I think it should be a dynamic, not static.
15:10:41 [Steven]
Steven: Use case?
15:11:55 [Steven]
Erik: Sub-form where the embedded form submits/stores the data; in some cases the outer form already has data, in other cases not.
15:12:13 [Steven]
... it also depends on when the embedded form gets initialised in the life-cycle
15:13:27 [Steven]
... sub-forms get initialised during the first refresh.
15:13:36 [Steven]
... seems to make sense.
15:13:57 [Steven]
... that's why we need heuristics.
15:14:13 [Steven]
... to prevent overwriting data.
15:14:52 [Steven]
Steven: That seems then still to need thought about how we specify initialisation....
15:15:50 [Steven]
... but that does answer the question about XForms-ready. which happens after the initial refresh.
15:16:51 [Steven]
Erik: The alternative would be to defer xforms-ready until after the sub-forms are ready
15:17:16 [Steven]
Alain: We have a different event for sub-forms, because we use <load/> to load sub-forms.
15:19:44 [Steven]
Steven: I have a similar use case with the XForms test suite, where I load a subform with an iframe with an attribute value
15:20:00 [Steven]
Alain: Can you communicate with an iframe.
15:20:08 [Steven]
Steven: I don;t knwo yet. Possibly.
15:20:12 [Steven]
s/;/'
15:20:20 [Steven]
s/knwo/know/
15:20:48 [Steven]
Alain: It's the way to specify an app with a single page
15:21:44 [Steven]
... is iframe deprecated?
15:21:54 [Steven]
Steven: Oh! Hadn't heard.
15:22:04 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven to find out if iframe is deprecated.
15:22:05 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2326 - Find out if iframe is deprecated. [on Steven Pemberton - due 2022-12-09].
15:23:11 [Steven]
"Question: If there is a binding mismatch, an xforms-bind-error is dispatched.
15:23:11 [Steven]
QUESTION: On the embedder side?"
15:23:22 [Steven]
Alain: the parent form
15:23:33 [Steven]
Steven: That was my feeling too.
15:23:40 [ebruchez]
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/iframe
15:23:44 [Steven]
Erik: Makes sense.
15:24:10 [Steven]
"QUESTION: Which is better?
15:24:10 [Steven]
1. Events targeted to <control/> and <interface/> perform the same,
15:24:10 [Steven]
and so bubble up from the <control/> or <interface/> in the dispatching
15:24:10 [Steven]
form,
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therefore appearing in both forms.
15:24:10 [Steven]
2. The <interface/> and <control/> elements have magic so that if they are
15:24:10 [Steven]
targeted,
15:24:12 [Steven]
the events neither bubble nor capture on the dispatching side.
15:24:12 [Steven]
3. We introduce a new action, say <signal/> with comparable attributes to
15:24:12 [Steven]
<dispatch/>
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which causes a <dispatch/> to happen on the other side of the
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interface,
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so that the event only appears in the form being signalled to.
15:24:13 [Steven]
4. Something else?"
15:25:58 [Steven]
Steven: I think we agreed that 1. is not desirable.
15:26:50 [Steven]
... my gut feeling is that 3. is preferable.
15:27:00 [Steven]
Erik: I don't like 3.
15:29:04 [Steven]
... there are two sides. From the embedded form I have less of a problem. It is clear you want to dispatch an event to the outside.
15:34:26 [Steven]
Steven: I'm trying to find a way to specify it that would allow different implementations.
15:50:31 [Steven]
[Long discussion of implementation techniques, where the scribe was deeply involved]
15:52:58 [Steven]
Alain: We could use the <form/> element we already have.
15:53:42 [Steven]
Erik: I will write an email with some examples
15:54:06 [Steven]
ACTION: Erik to write an email proposing a method for events
15:54:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2327 - Write an email proposing a method for events [on Erik Bruchez - due 2022-12-09].
15:54:20 [Steven]
ACTION: Alain to write an email froposing the use of <form/>
15:54:20 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2328 - Write an email froposing the use of <form/> [on Alain Couthures - due 2022-12-09].
15:55:05 [Steven]
[ADJOURN]
15:55:15 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:55:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/02-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:57:37 [Steven]
s/froposing/proposing
15:57:39 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:57:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/02-forms-minutes.html Steven
17:06:20 [Zakim]
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