IRC log of wot-discovery on 2022-11-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:01:16 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #wot-discovery

15:01:16 [RRSAgent]

logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/11/28-wot-discovery-irc

15:01:20 [kaz]

meeting: WoT Discovery

15:01:58 [kaz]

present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Addison_Philipps, Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura

15:02:05 [kaz]

agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Discovery_WebConf#28_November_2022

15:02:12 [ktoumura]

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15:02:17 [Ege]

https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1750

15:02:18 [Mizushima]

Mizushima has joined #wot-discovery

15:02:59 [kaz]

present+ Fady_Salama

15:03:08 [kaz]

q+

15:04:40 [kaz]

present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima

15:05:12 [kaz]

present+ Andrea_Cimmino

15:05:16 [acimmino]

acimmino has joined #wot-discovery

15:05:37 [addison]

present+ Addison_Phillips

15:06:00 [kaz]

zakim, who is on the call?

15:06:00 [Zakim]

Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Addison_Philipps, Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura, Fady_Salama, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Andrea_Cimmino, Addison_Phillips

15:06:28 [kaz]

present- Addison_Philipps

15:07:10 [Ege]

Topic: Minutes Review

15:07:22 [kaz]

topic: Minutes

15:07:26 [kaz]

s/topic: Minutes//

15:07:36 [kaz]

-> https://www.w3.org/2022/11/21-wot-discovery-minutes.html Nov-21

15:07:52 [Ege]

mm: minutes are approved

15:08:00 [Ege]

topic: Wide Review

15:08:39 [Fady_]

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15:08:55 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/labels/i18n-needs-resolution i18n issues

15:09:02 [Ege]

subtopic: Issue 321

15:09:13 [Ege]

mm: how does this issue look like Addison?

15:09:26 [Ege]

ap: This is fine from my point of view

15:09:29 [kaz]

i|how|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/issues/321 Issue 321 - Registration information timezone handling|

15:10:04 [Ege]

subtopic: issue 320

15:10:29 [Ege]

mm: the ids are also in URLs to identify TDs

15:12:27 [kaz]

i|mm: the|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/issues/320 Issue 320 - Question is id in 7.2.2.1.1 the same as TD id?|

15:12:38 [Ege]

ap: if non ascii chars can be percent escaped, then it is fine. So this is the boundary between URLs and their text representations

15:12:41 [kaz]

s/ids/id's/

15:13:48 [Ege]

ap: do you know what format to expect? If you assume uris, then you can encode. If iri then it would not work

15:13:54 [Ege]

mm: we need better wording around this

15:14:35 [addison]

https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/issues/316

15:14:52 [kaz]

i|https|subtopic: Issue 316|

15:14:56 [kaz]

s/https/-> https/

15:15:20 [kaz]

s/316/316 Issue 316 - Specify Sorting Algorithm/

15:15:40 [kaz]

mm: created a PR

15:15:56 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/441 PR 441 - Use Unicode code points for sorting orders

15:16:09 [kaz]

mm: (goes through the changes)

15:16:19 [kaz]

rrsagent, make log public

15:16:27 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:16:27 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/28-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz

15:16:37 [kaz]

... does this PR address the question?

15:16:42 [kaz]

ap: yes

15:16:51 [kaz]

... but not all the programmers use UTF-8

15:17:19 [kaz]

mm: Unicode should be a more generic term

15:17:35 [kaz]

i/created/scribeick: kaz/

15:17:38 [kaz]

scribenick: Ege

15:17:44 [Ege]

mm: any objections to doing those two things?

15:17:45 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:17:45 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/28-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz

15:17:59 [McCool_]

proposal: merge PR #441 and update CR candidate correspondingly.

15:18:38 [Ege]

mm: (types resolution)

15:18:51 [McCool_]

resolution: merge PR #441 and update CR candidate correspondingly. McCool will create and merge a PR to update the CR candidate.

15:18:58 [Ege]

mm: I hear no objections

15:20:08 [Ege]

mm: that should be the end of internationliozation issues

15:20:23 [addison]

s/internationliozation/internationalization/

15:20:26 [McCool_]

topic: TD i18n issues

15:20:37 [McCool_]

see https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1750

15:20:47 [McCool_]

ege: very specific language we added

15:20:52 [kaz]

i/see /scribenick: McCool_/

15:20:57 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:20:57 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/28-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz

15:21:13 [Ege]

http://plugfest.thingweb.io/playground/#C4EwVgzg9gdg3gKAAQqQIgJYjQLnQVwCcYcIMBbABwBsBTAdQ2AAsARWgMwEN9rgI0AGmSo0AAQDGsYLQAewXEgDaI1KObBglCDgD0ugO5GAdAYDMxqIQDmugEwAGO3cNRgu0LoBuARmM+hVTUkRGCw9DFqLhhrfC5rWkU0LkIAWgBRAHFA8ODxEAxCWglgDFgkwmBqNCC1AF8ggF1hNTRSqsS8NEAWMEApMEBCMCRewDowQFYwQDEwXqHAITBewGYwJEB6MEBGMEAaMEBKMCRAcjBAETBAWjBlreX1nNEQWggJQgxKUvKuvsHe2YWVje39w+OkQAkwIcAOMEA4mDLJB7XaAKjBAacUGgIMUiEwAJ7sDgYGBMMowAR4ULhNAAIy4ZAkAH1LopcbkYZdmLRyJ1[CUT]

15:21:29 [McCool_]

... we have tried to implement this in the playground since we have a visualization capability

15:22:18 [McCool_]

... this assertion however is still needed and we need a means to guess the direction

15:22:20 [kaz]

s/topic: TD/subtopic: TD/

15:22:31 [kaz]

s/see h/-> h/

15:22:48 [McCool_]

... it is optional but people still need to implement this for our spec

15:22:54 [kaz]

s/1750/1750 wot-thing-description Issue 1750 - Implementation of text direction from language tags/

15:22:58 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:22:58 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/28-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz

15:23:09 [McCool_]

ad: we tell people NOT to do this, since, ouch

15:23:16 [McCool_]

... still wrong some of the time

15:23:31 [McCool_]

... if you provide metadata it's better

15:24:08 [McCool_]

... in practice you have first-strong, can use metadata to fix problems, guessing in wrong half the time, so...

15:24:59 [McCool_]

ege: so in the end, if we really need to do language guessing

15:25:08 [McCool_]

... would it be ok to remove this assertion?

15:25:30 [McCool_]

ad: could make spec permissive...

15:25:48 [McCool_]

mm: but still need two implementations even for optional (e.g. permissive) assertions

15:26:05 [McCool_]

ege: would it be ok for us to remove this assertion?

15:26:09 [McCool_]

q?

15:26:11 [McCool_]

q+

15:26:29 [McCool_]

ege: which one should have priority?

15:26:41 [McCool_]

ad: guess by language first, then by first strong

15:26:58 [McCool_]

... there are a number of things about bidi isolation in our documents

15:27:18 [McCool_]

... but this is not really about your spec; is if there is a string in your spec, how to feed it to a display?

15:27:24 [kaz]

ck k

15:27:29 [kaz]

s/ck k//

15:27:30 [kaz]

ack k

15:27:43 [McCool_]

ege: in this case, instead of a full lookup table, can we do a subset?

15:27:55 [McCool_]

... e.g. just the most common RTL languages

15:28:25 [McCool_]

ad: users would appreciate a more complete list, but can use the link provided in the issue

15:28:41 [McCool_]

https://github.com/unicode-org/icu/blob/3654e945b68d5042cbf6254dd559a7ba794a76b3/icu4j/main/classes/core/src/com/ibm/icu/lang/UScript.java#L1337

15:29:58 [McCool_]

mm: what about languages that may be either, i.e. Azeri?

15:30:05 [kaz]

-> https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-scripts i18n wg's page on Languages using right-to-left scripts

15:30:10 [McCool_]

ad: leave it off the list, use first-strong in that case

15:30:54 [McCool_]

mm: is there a CSV file or something?

15:31:07 [McCool_]

ad: no, because recommendation is not to do this...

15:31:10 [McCool_]

m: (sigh)

15:31:36 [kaz]

s/m:/mm:/

15:31:39 [McCool_]

ege: clean solution is to use just metadata

15:32:02 [McCool_]

... but we want to keep backward compatibility

15:32:32 [kaz]

q+

15:32:41 [kaz]

ack mc

15:33:32 [Ege]

kaz: So we need to change the TD 1.1 spec?

15:34:48 [kaz]

ack k

15:34:54 [Ege]

mm: I think Ege only asked for help with implementation

15:35:08 [Ege]

kaz: maybe something editorial, to guide implementors?

15:35:19 [Ege]

mm: that makes sense, Ege can you create a PR about it

15:35:26 [kaz]

i/So we/scribenick: Ege/

15:35:28 [Ege]

mm: Thank you Addision

15:35:36 [kaz]

s/about it/about it?/

15:35:41 [Ege]

s/Addision/Addison

15:35:42 [kaz]

(Addison leaves)

15:35:59 [Ege]

topic: Horizontal View Checklist

15:36:39 [kaz]

-> https://www.w3.org/PM/horizontal/review.html?shortname=wot-discovery Review comment tracker for WoT Discovery

15:37:24 [Ege]

mm: should we fix these red boxes?

15:37:29 [McCool_]

https://labs.w3.org/normative-references/check?url=https://w3c.github.io/wot-discovery/publication/4-cr/Overview.html

15:38:57 [Ege]

mm: we are inspired from Hydra. This is an informative reference though

15:39:34 [kaz]

q+

15:40:25 [kaz]

s/https/-> https/

15:40:26 [Ege]

mm: these are marked but I do not understand it

15:40:43 [kaz]

s/Overview.html/Overview.html Normative references checker for WoT Discovery/

15:41:21 [Ege]

kaz: these are just recommendations from reference checker right?

15:41:31 [Ege]

... so we can review them and decide to apply

15:41:36 [kaz]

s/from r/from the r/

15:41:59 [kaz]

s/decide to apply/decide which suggestion to be applied/

15:44:53 [Ege]

mm: (writes github comment)

15:45:43 [Ege]

mm: would anyone object to changing it to "inspired by"

15:46:02 [kaz]

q?

15:46:05 [kaz]

ack k

15:47:55 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/transitions/issues/465 transition issue 465 - CR Request for Web of Things (WoT) Discovery

15:48:01 [kaz]

q+

15:48:12 [kaz]

ack k

15:49:02 [McCool_]

https://github.com/w3c/transitions/issues/465#issuecomment-1329329272

15:50:30 [McCool_]

proposal: McCool to affect changes to CR snapshot as described in https://github.com/w3c/transitions/issues/465#issuecomment-1329329272 (removing section references via the datatracker, changing "derived from" to "inspired by" for hydra refs, leaving others alone)

15:50:54 [McCool_]

resolution: McCool to affect changes to CR snapshot as described in https://github.com/w3c/transitions/issues/465#issuecomment-1329329272 (removing section references via the datatracker, changing "derived from" to "inspired by" for hydra refs, leaving others alone)

15:51:00 [kaz]

q+

15:51:22 [kaz]

ack k

15:52:00 [Ege]

topic: IANA Registration

15:53:09 [Ege]

mm: we have gotten confirmation but it says that no txt keys are registered

15:53:48 [kaz]

i|we have|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/issues/403 Issue 403 - Refine DNS-SD Name Requirements and IANA Consideration|

15:54:16 [Ege]

kt: there are many pages

15:54:17 [kaz]

q+

15:54:23 [Ege]

mm: ok we find wot in the list

15:55:49 [Ege]

mm: but it is wrong even though I have asked for it in the original request

15:56:14 [Ege]

mm: we can maybe do it right now

15:57:39 [kaz]

i|ok we find|-> https://www.iana.org/assignments/service-names-port-numbers/service-names-port-numbers.xhtml?search=WoT IANA Registry|

15:58:38 [kaz]

q+

15:58:54 [McCool_]

https://www.iana.org/assignments/service-names-port-numbers/service-names-port-numbers.xhtml?search=wot

15:59:18 [Ege]

mm: the problem is not having text keys

16:02:52 [Ege]

mm: we need to close the meetinh

16:02:57 [Ege]

meeting adjourned

16:04:53 [kaz]

ack k

16:05:00 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

16:05:00 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/28-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz

18:13:52 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #wot-discovery