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14:36:49 <trackbot> Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
14:36:49 <trackbot> Date: 25 November 2022
14:45:40 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Nov/0009
14:45:53 <Steven> Chair: Steven
14:45:53 <Steven> Previous Meeting: https://www.w3.org/2022/11/11-forms-minutes
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15:00:32 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2325: Steven and Erik, check the new submit-ready text
15:00:32 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Oct/0009
15:00:56 <Steven> Erik: Still to do
15:01:03 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2314: Compose text that matches the <control/> discussion for
15:01:03 <Steven> mirroring (Steven)
15:01:03 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Nov/0008
15:06:06 <Steven> Steven: What happens if the shape of the data on either side is different?
15:06:32 <Steven> Erik: What do you mean by "bind to a text node"?
15:07:29 <Steven> Erik: I'm not sure we agreed to do that, just raised the issue
15:07:45 <Steven> ... about what to do when the two sides bind to something slightly different/.
15:08:59 <Steven> ... for instance if the embedded side is bound to an element content and the embedder is bound to an attribute, then they are mirrored
15:09:41 <Steven> Alain: We could specify how to say in the embedded form that the text is to be in the content of an attribute, or anywhere...
15:10:03 <Steven> ... using a <bind/> element
15:10:55 <Steven> Steven: Standard controls only have two cases: no children, or children
15:11:48 <Steven> Erik: In practise you bind to an attribute or an element.
15:11:55 <Steven> s/ise/ice/
15:12:09 <Steven> Erik: <repeat> is different
15:12:21 <Steven> ... binding to a series of things
15:12:36 <Steven> ... or binding to an atomic value
15:12:48 <Steven> ... a sequence of items
15:13:12 <Steven> ... We support binding to elements, not to other cases, but I agree it would be good to bind to attributes
15:13:18 <Steven> ... also to 'repeated' things
15:14:02 <Steven> ... for instance a tabbed based interface, with repeating over multiple tabs
15:14:40 <Steven> Steven: Is the comclusion that it would be nice to bind attributes, but we dpon't know how to do it?
15:14:47 <Steven> s/com/son/
15:14:52 <Steven> s/son/con/
15:15:28 <Steven> Alain: there might be exceptions if the embedded form has an instance not as a root element.
15:15:50 <Steven> ... or is it ignoring?
15:16:13 <Steven> Erik: Two main use cases: an input field, that really deals with string values.
15:16:52 <Steven> .... 2) subforms that need complex content under the binding, and that couldn;t be bound to an attribute. It wouldn;t make sense,.
15:16:56 <Steven> s/,././
15:17:30 <Steven> Erik: It might be nice to have a mechanism that allowed a subform to do both, not sure if it is needed though
15:18:28 <Steven> Steven: So what should the reaction be if the two sides don't match?
15:18:40 <Steven> Erik: Binding error event?
15:19:08 <Steven> Steven: That's a good answer as far as I'm concerned.
15:21:36 <Steven> Steven: OK, moving to events.
15:22:16 <Steven> Erik: I want to avoid duplication of events.
15:23:36 <Steven> Steven: What about my suggestion of <signal/>
15:24:26 <Steven> Erik: there's a problem with that.
15:44:49 <Steven> [Long discussion about how it works with web components]
15:45:37 <Steven> Steven: Initialisation. You Erik use a heuristic about which side has data at the start
15:45:40 <Steven> Erik: Yes
15:46:07 <Steven> ... complex content is easy
15:46:19 <Steven> ... one side is empty, the other not
15:46:45 <Steven> ... for simple content, it is harder
15:47:25 <Steven> Steven: Maybe an attribute on the interface element saying what should be done?
15:48:29 <Steven> Erik: Maybe other possibilities. Always initialises from the outside, but if the embedded form wants it differently, it then initialises
15:50:40 <Steven> Steven: this also has ramifications about how xforms-ready works on both sides.
15:51:36 <Steven> Alain: We have subforms for performance reasons. We load a subform after xforms ready
15:52:37 <Steven> ... so it has a different dynamic with xforms-ready
15:52:42 <Steven> ... we have that requirement
15:52:51 <Steven> Steven: So we need to think about that too.
15:53:08 <Steven> Topic: AOB
15:54:09 <Steven> [None]
15:54:14 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
15:54:24 <Steven> Present: Alain, Erik, Steven
15:55:07 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:55:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/25-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:55:40 <Steven> Recreating the mising discussion above
15:56:40 <Steven> Erik: web components puts a listener on (effectively) the <control/> element, so the action in the embedded form responds to that but the event bubbles in the embedding form.
15:56:50 <Steven> Steven: Doesn't that mess with the context?
15:57:02 <Steven> Erik: No the context remains the same.
15:57:18 <Steven> Steven: So the <interface/> element has a sort of magic
15:59:04 <Steven> ... it looks like the event was targetted to it, but it wasn't.
15:59:16 <Steven> ... and doesn;t bubble up in the embedded form.
16:00:27 <Steven> s/;/'/
16:01:15 <Steven> Steven: My <signal/> proposal was intended to let the event turn up at the <interface/> element in a normal, non-magic way.
16:01:24 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/25-forms-minutes.html Steven
16:01:51 <Steven> s/mising/missing/
16:03:07 <Steven> s/dpon't/don't/
16:03:23 <Steven> s/;/'/G
16:06:45 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
16:06:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/25-forms-minutes.html Steven
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