IRC log of wot-arch on 2022-11-24
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 11:00:53 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wot-arch
- 11:00:53 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-irc
- 11:01:00 [kaz]
- meeting: WoT Architecture/Profile
- 11:01:01 [ktoumura_]
- ktoumura_ has joined #wot-arch
- 11:03:41 [kaz]
- present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool
- 11:03:57 [kaz]
- present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
- 11:06:57 [kaz]
- agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Architecture_WebConf#Architecture_.2B_Profile_-_Nov_24th.2C_2022
- 11:07:05 [kaz]
- present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
- 11:08:22 [kaz]
- q+
- 11:10:54 [mlagally]
- mlagally has joined #wot-arch
- 11:11:26 [kaz]
- present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura
- 11:11:44 [sebastian]
- sebastian has joined #wot-arch
- 11:11:56 [kaz]
- scribenick: sebastian
- 11:12:08 [sebastian]
- <ML shows the agenda>
- 11:12:15 [kaz]
- q?
- 11:12:46 [kaz]
- ack k
- 11:12:56 [sebastian]
- topic: Testfest preparation
- 11:13:32 [sebastian]
- <MM shares its screen and shows the latest result of the implemnetation report>
- 11:14:28 [sebastian]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/881
- 11:14:45 [sebastian]
- PR that includes the latest IR
- 11:15:17 [sebastian]
- <MM shows the structure and content of the PR>
- 11:15:40 [kaz]
- i|PR that|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/327 wot-profile PR 327 - Implementation Report Update
- 11:15:48 [kaz]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 11:15:52 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 11:15:52 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
- 11:16:32 [kaz]
- q+
- 11:16:49 [sebastian]
- ML: My template follows the same order of asserations as showing up in the spec document
- 11:18:23 [kaz]
- q-
- 11:18:31 [kaz]
- chair: Lagally
- 11:18:33 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 11:18:33 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
- 11:18:46 [sebastian]
- ... developer do not necessary read the spec document
- 11:19:03 [kaz]
- q+
- 11:19:08 [sebastian]
- MM: I can also follow the same approache
- 11:19:22 [kaz]
- s/asserations/assertions/
- 11:19:26 [sebastian]
- <MM shows the pyhton script>
- 11:19:34 [sebastian]
- q?
- 11:19:37 [kaz]
- s/approache/approach/
- 11:20:14 [kaz]
- ack k
- 11:20:48 [sebastian]
- Kaz: I support ML to keep the appearances order of the assertations in the table
- 11:21:04 [kaz]
- s/appearances/appearance/
- 11:21:25 [kaz]
- s/in the table/both in the CSV and the table within the Implementation Report./
- 11:22:14 [sebastian]
- ML: support to merge this PR
- 11:22:41 [kaz]
- i/support to/MM: agree/
- 11:22:47 [kaz]
- i/agree/scribenick: kaz/
- 11:22:56 [kaz]
- i/support/scribenick: sebastian/
- 11:23:24 [sebastian]
- MM: Which I do not understand is that there are automated asserations labeled, however, showing-up in the manuel section
- 11:23:33 [sebastian]
- ... need to fix this
- 11:24:21 [sebastian]
- ML: we should do it later. First do the right sorting of the asseretations
- 11:25:02 [Ege]
- Ege has joined #wot-arch
- 11:25:08 [kaz]
- present+ Ege_Korkan
- 11:25:30 [kaz]
- scribenick: kaz
- 11:25:39 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 11:25:39 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
- 11:26:28 [kaz]
- ml: we're lacking Consumer implementations
- 11:26:54 [kaz]
- i/we're/subtopic: Things vs Consumers/
- 11:27:31 [kaz]
- mm: also validator for implementations
- 11:28:52 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/tree/main/testing/inputs/results wot-profie/testing area
- 11:29:19 [kaz]
- ml: (shows the result of wot-webthing)
- 11:30:30 [kaz]
- ... proxy can passthrough the actions
- 11:30:48 [kaz]
- ... would need another consumer to trigger actions
- 11:30:59 [kaz]
- ... have to know which actions to be handled
- 11:31:02 [Ege]
- q+
- 11:31:19 [kaz]
- ... power-on, power-off, etc.
- 11:31:20 [McCool]
- q+
- 11:31:26 [kaz]
- ack e
- 11:31:38 [kaz]
- ek: we can't do that at the moment
- 11:31:48 [kaz]
- ... but can identify the action
- 11:32:22 [kaz]
- ml: let's think about interoperability
- 11:32:41 [kaz]
- ... one synchronous action and one asynchronous action
- 11:33:12 [kaz]
- ... valid scenario for good coverage
- 11:33:20 [kaz]
- mm: we can think about some test scenario
- 11:33:31 [kaz]
- ... confirming some assertions
- 11:33:48 [kaz]
- q+
- 11:33:51 [kaz]
- ack m
- 11:34:29 [kaz]
- ... would say some focused test scenario would be useful
- 11:34:49 [kaz]
- ml: to see the coverage of implementations
- 11:35:25 [kaz]
- ... why don't we try tha approach?
- 11:35:44 [Ege]
- q+
- 11:36:54 [kaz]
- kaz: several basic questions
- 11:37:09 [kaz]
- ... 1. discussion on moving this result from wot-profile to wot-testing
- 11:38:05 [kaz]
- ... 2. we should once generate the draft implementation report rather than looking at the CSVs directly
- 11:38:22 [kaz]
- mm: looking at the CSVs directly still makes sense
- 11:38:40 [kaz]
- ... we need to add two categories, Things vs Consumers, to the template
- 11:39:10 [kaz]
- ml: would add another column to the CSV template for that purpose
- 11:39:24 [kaz]
- mm: ok
- 11:39:48 [kaz]
- ... we can review it later
- 11:39:49 [kaz]
- q?
- 11:41:15 [kaz]
- kaz: which would be better, (1) having an additional column to identify the category or (2) having two templates (one for Things and another for Consumers)?
- 11:41:17 [kaz]
- ack k
- 11:41:36 [kaz]
- mm: would be easier to have an additional column
- 11:41:43 [McCool]
- q+
- 11:42:02 [kaz]
- ek: do you want to talk about what Consumer is?
- 11:42:24 [McCool]
- s/would be easier to have an additional column/would be easier to have a separate csv for categories/
- 11:42:24 [kaz]
- ... playground can handle query action, etc.
- 11:43:35 [McCool]
- q+
- 11:43:37 [kaz]
- ... for me, Architecture terminology should be understandable
- 11:44:01 [kaz]
- mm: agree
- 11:44:17 [kaz]
- ml: would exclude hybrid Consumer?
- 11:44:37 [kaz]
- q?
- 11:44:39 [kaz]
- ack e
- 11:44:40 [kaz]
- ack m
- 11:44:41 [kaz]
- q+
- 11:46:28 [McCool]
- q+
- 11:46:47 [kaz]
- ack k
- 11:46:55 [kaz]
- kaz: sorry but a bit confused
- 11:46:59 [kaz]
- ... what do we want to do?
- 11:47:32 [kaz]
- mm: even for manual tests, simple test script can cover multiple assertions
- 11:47:41 [kaz]
- ml: automatic testing is not required here
- 11:48:46 [kaz]
- ... McCool, are you generating some scenario so that developers can test multiple assertions?
- 11:49:06 [kaz]
- mm: I can do that but I can't provide concrete codes
- 11:49:18 [kaz]
- ... let's look at the list and see what we can do
- 11:49:21 [kaz]
- q?
- 11:49:23 [kaz]
- ack m
- 11:49:27 [kaz]
- ml: thanks!
- 11:49:47 [kaz]
- ... let's discuss the scenario and script next time
- 11:49:57 [kaz]
- q+
- 11:50:22 [kaz]
- ack k
- 11:50:54 [kaz]
- kaz: just to make sure, McCool, you'll add modification to your tooling to keep the appearance order of the assertions. right?
- 11:50:55 [kaz]
- mm: yes
- 11:51:04 [kaz]
- topic: Architecture
- 11:51:05 [mlagally]
- https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/879
- 11:51:21 [kaz]
- i/ht/subtopic: PR 879/
- 11:51:26 [kaz]
- approved
- 11:51:37 [kaz]
- subtopic: PR 880
- 11:52:04 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/880 PR 880 - fix binding reference in change log
- 11:52:13 [kaz]
- ml: would like to merge this as well
- 11:52:16 [kaz]
- merged
- 11:52:37 [kaz]
- topic: Remaining Issues for CR Transition
- 11:53:26 [kaz]
- ml: will close issues which can be closed
- 11:53:32 [mlagally]
- https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22by+CR+transition%22
- 11:53:39 [kaz]
- q?
- 11:53:40 [kaz]
- q+
- 11:54:11 [kaz]
- kaz: that's kind of too much
- 11:54:16 [mlagally]
- https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22by+CR+transition%22
- 11:54:17 [kaz]
- ... which issues do you mean?
- 11:54:31 [kaz]
- ... labeled as "by CR transition"?
- 11:54:57 [kaz]
- ml: would add "propose to close" now
- 11:55:05 [kaz]
- ... and let's confirm them next week
- 11:55:13 [kaz]
- ack k
- 11:55:55 [kaz]
- topic: CR Exit Criteria
- 11:56:17 [kaz]
- mm: basically, can put it to the publication draft
- 11:56:30 [kaz]
- ... can apply the latest changes to the ED as well
- 11:57:08 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/778 Issue 778 - Generate static HTML version
- 11:57:47 [kaz]
- ml: (adds a comment on applying the change for the exit criteria back to the ED)
- 11:58:26 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/778#issuecomment-1326350735 Lagally's comment
- 11:58:48 [kaz]
- ml: (shows the terminology for "Trusted Environment" within the ED)
- 11:58:58 [kaz]
- -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-architecture/#terminology 3. Terminology
- 11:59:19 [kaz]
- [[
- 11:59:20 [kaz]
- Trusted Environment
- 11:59:20 [kaz]
- Set of devices that assume each other's claims of identity are authentic without proof and allow relatively unrestricted access to one another over a common protected network.
- 11:59:20 [kaz]
- ]]
- 11:59:47 [kaz]
- mm: the easiest solution is simply removing that definition
- 11:59:53 [kaz]
- ml: but we still need clarification
- 12:00:19 [kaz]
- -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-architecture/#sec-security-consideration-trusted-environment-risks 10.4 Trusted Environment Risks
- 12:00:52 [kaz]
- q+
- 12:01:20 [kaz]
- ml: Security and Privacy section is normative. right?
- 12:03:35 [kaz]
- kaz: as the WoT Team Contact, I'm a bit concerned to simply remove this definition given it plays an important role for section 10
- 12:04:00 [kaz]
- ... we could ask TAG and Security guys to quickly review the definition
- 12:04:15 [kaz]
- ... and would suggest we explain the situation to Ralph as well
- 12:04:29 [mlagally]
- proposal: Ask TAG group for review of the terminology definition of a trusted environment in the context of WoT architecture.
- 12:05:55 [kaz]
- ml: who would contact whom?
- 12:06:18 [kaz]
- kaz: would suggest McCool send a message to Ralph CCing team-wot
- 12:06:25 [kaz]
- ... as the starting point
- 12:06:34 [mlagally]
- proposal: Michael McCool will send a message to Ralph Swick to ask TAG group for review of the terminology definition of a trusted environment in the context of WoT architecture.
- 12:07:00 [kaz]
- kaz: can help McCool
- 12:07:14 [mlagally]
- resolution: Michael McCool will send a message to Ralph Swick to ask TAG group for review of the terminology definition of a trusted environment in the context of WoT architecture.
- 12:08:29 [kaz]
- s/kaz: can help McCool//
- 12:08:42 [kaz]
- kaz: can help McCool for that
- 12:09:00 [kaz]
- ... e.g., by pinging Ralph and PLH
- 12:09:05 [kaz]
- [adjourned]
- 12:09:10 [kaz]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 12:09:17 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 12:09:17 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
- 12:12:15 [kaz]
- i/shows the latest result of/subtopic: Profile Implementation Report/
- 12:12:19 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 12:12:19 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
- 12:13:26 [kaz]
- s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/881||
- 12:13:27 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 12:13:27 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
- 12:15:23 [kaz]
- s/topic: Remaining Issues for CR Transition/subtopic: Remaining Issues for CR Transition/
- 12:15:24 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 12:15:24 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
- 12:16:47 [kaz]
- s/topic: CR Exit Criteria/subtopic: CR Exit Criteria/
- 12:18:06 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 12:18:06 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
- 14:01:25 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #wot-arch
- 15:15:39 [Ege]
- Ege has joined #wot-arch