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11:00:53 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-irc
11:01:00 <kaz> meeting: WoT Architecture/Profile
11:01:01 <ktoumura_> ktoumura_ has joined #wot-arch
11:03:41 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool
11:03:57 <kaz> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
11:06:57 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Architecture_WebConf#Architecture_.2B_Profile_-_Nov_24th.2C_2022
11:07:05 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
11:08:22 <kaz> q+
11:10:54 <mlagally> mlagally has joined #wot-arch
11:11:26 <kaz> present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura
11:11:44 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot-arch
11:11:56 <kaz> scribenick: sebastian
11:12:08 <sebastian> <ML shows the agenda>
11:12:15 <kaz> q?
11:12:46 <kaz> ack k
11:12:56 <sebastian> topic: Testfest preparation
11:13:32 <sebastian> <MM shares its screen and shows the latest result of the implemnetation report>
11:14:28 <sebastian> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/881
11:14:45 <sebastian> PR that includes the latest IR
11:15:17 <sebastian> <MM shows the structure and content of the PR>
11:15:40 <kaz> i|PR that|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/327 wot-profile PR 327 - Implementation Report Update
11:15:48 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
11:15:52 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:15:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
11:16:32 <kaz> q+
11:16:49 <sebastian> ML: My template follows the same order of asserations as showing up in the spec document
11:18:23 <kaz> q-
11:18:31 <kaz> chair: Lagally
11:18:33 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:18:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
11:18:46 <sebastian> ... developer do not necessary read the spec document
11:19:03 <kaz> q+
11:19:08 <sebastian> MM: I can also follow the same approache
11:19:22 <kaz> s/asserations/assertions/
11:19:26 <sebastian> <MM shows the pyhton script>
11:19:34 <sebastian> q?
11:19:37 <kaz> s/approache/approach/
11:20:14 <kaz> ack k
11:20:48 <sebastian> Kaz: I support ML to keep the appearances order of the assertations in the table
11:21:04 <kaz> s/appearances/appearance/
11:21:25 <kaz> s/in the table/both in the CSV and the table within the Implementation Report./
11:22:14 <sebastian> ML: support to merge this PR
11:22:41 <kaz> i/support to/MM: agree/
11:22:47 <kaz> i/agree/scribenick: kaz/
11:22:56 <kaz> i/support/scribenick: sebastian/
11:23:24 <sebastian> MM: Which I do not understand is that there are automated asserations labeled, however, showing-up in the manuel section
11:23:33 <sebastian> ... need to fix this
11:24:21 <sebastian> ML: we should do it later. First do the right sorting of the asseretations
11:25:02 <Ege> Ege has joined #wot-arch
11:25:08 <kaz> present+ Ege_Korkan
11:25:30 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
11:25:39 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:25:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
11:26:28 <kaz> ml: we're lacking Consumer implementations
11:26:54 <kaz> i/we're/subtopic: Things vs Consumers/
11:27:31 <kaz> mm: also validator for implementations
11:28:52 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/tree/main/testing/inputs/results wot-profie/testing area
11:29:19 <kaz> ml: (shows the result of wot-webthing)
11:30:30 <kaz> ... proxy can passthrough the actions
11:30:48 <kaz> ... would need another consumer to trigger actions
11:30:59 <kaz> ... have to know which actions to be handled
11:31:02 <Ege> q+
11:31:19 <kaz> ... power-on, power-off, etc.
11:31:20 <McCool> q+
11:31:26 <kaz> ack e
11:31:38 <kaz> ek: we can't do that at the moment
11:31:48 <kaz> ... but can identify the action
11:32:22 <kaz> ml: let's think about interoperability
11:32:41 <kaz> ... one synchronous action and one asynchronous action
11:33:12 <kaz> ... valid scenario for good coverage
11:33:20 <kaz> mm: we can think about some test scenario
11:33:31 <kaz> ... confirming some assertions
11:33:48 <kaz> q+
11:33:51 <kaz> ack m
11:34:29 <kaz> ... would say some focused test scenario would be useful
11:34:49 <kaz> ml: to see the coverage of implementations
11:35:25 <kaz> ... why don't we try tha approach?
11:35:44 <Ege> q+
11:36:54 <kaz> kaz: several basic questions
11:37:09 <kaz> ... 1. discussion on moving this result from wot-profile to wot-testing
11:38:05 <kaz> ... 2. we should once generate the draft implementation report rather than looking at the CSVs directly
11:38:22 <kaz> mm: looking at the CSVs directly still makes sense
11:38:40 <kaz> ... we need to add two categories, Things vs Consumers, to the template
11:39:10 <kaz> ml: would add another column to the CSV template for that purpose
11:39:24 <kaz> mm: ok
11:39:48 <kaz> ... we can review it later
11:39:49 <kaz> q?
11:41:15 <kaz> kaz: which would be better, (1) having an additional column to identify the category or (2) having two templates (one for Things and another for Consumers)?
11:41:17 <kaz> ack k
11:41:36 <kaz> mm: would be easier to have an additional column
11:41:43 <McCool> q+
11:42:02 <kaz> ek: do you want to talk about what Consumer is?
11:42:24 <McCool> s/would be easier to have an additional column/would be easier to have a separate csv for categories/
11:42:24 <kaz> ... playground can handle query action, etc.
11:43:35 <McCool> q+
11:43:37 <kaz> ... for me, Architecture terminology should be understandable
11:44:01 <kaz> mm: agree
11:44:17 <kaz> ml: would exclude hybrid Consumer?
11:44:37 <kaz> q?
11:44:39 <kaz> ack e
11:44:40 <kaz> ack m
11:44:41 <kaz> q+
11:46:28 <McCool> q+
11:46:47 <kaz> ack k
11:46:55 <kaz> kaz: sorry but a bit confused
11:46:59 <kaz> ... what do we want to do?
11:47:32 <kaz> mm: even for manual tests, simple test script can cover multiple assertions
11:47:41 <kaz> ml: automatic testing is not required here
11:48:46 <kaz> ... McCool, are you generating some scenario so that developers can test multiple assertions?
11:49:06 <kaz> mm: I can do that but I can't provide concrete codes
11:49:18 <kaz> ... let's look at the list and see what we can do
11:49:21 <kaz> q?
11:49:23 <kaz> ack m
11:49:27 <kaz> ml: thanks!
11:49:47 <kaz> ... let's discuss the scenario and script next time
11:49:57 <kaz> q+
11:50:22 <kaz> ack k
11:50:54 <kaz> kaz: just to make sure, McCool, you'll add modification to your tooling to keep the appearance order of the assertions. right?
11:50:55 <kaz> mm: yes
11:51:04 <kaz> topic: Architecture
11:51:05 <mlagally> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/879
11:51:21 <kaz> i/ht/subtopic: PR 879/
11:51:26 <kaz> approved
11:51:37 <kaz> subtopic: PR 880
11:52:04 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/880 PR 880 - fix binding reference in change log
11:52:13 <kaz> ml: would like to merge this as well
11:52:16 <kaz> merged
11:52:37 <kaz> topic: Remaining Issues for CR Transition
11:53:26 <kaz> ml: will close issues which can be closed
11:53:32 <mlagally> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22by+CR+transition%22
11:53:39 <kaz> q?
11:53:40 <kaz> q+
11:54:11 <kaz> kaz: that's kind of too much
11:54:16 <mlagally> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22by+CR+transition%22
11:54:17 <kaz> ... which issues do you mean?
11:54:31 <kaz> ... labeled as "by CR transition"?
11:54:57 <kaz> ml: would add "propose to close" now
11:55:05 <kaz> ... and let's confirm them next week
11:55:13 <kaz> ack k
11:55:55 <kaz> topic: CR Exit Criteria
11:56:17 <kaz> mm: basically, can put it to the publication draft
11:56:30 <kaz> ... can apply the latest changes to the ED as well
11:57:08 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/778 Issue 778 - Generate static HTML version
11:57:47 <kaz> ml: (adds a comment on applying the change for the exit criteria back to the ED)
11:58:26 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/778#issuecomment-1326350735 Lagally's comment
11:58:48 <kaz> ml: (shows the terminology for "Trusted Environment" within the ED)
11:58:58 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-architecture/#terminology 3. Terminology
11:59:19 <kaz> [[
11:59:20 <kaz> Trusted Environment
11:59:20 <kaz> Set of devices that assume each other's claims of identity are authentic without proof and allow relatively unrestricted access to one another over a common protected network.
11:59:20 <kaz> ]]
11:59:47 <kaz> mm: the easiest solution is simply removing that definition
11:59:53 <kaz> ml: but we still need clarification
12:00:19 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-architecture/#sec-security-consideration-trusted-environment-risks 10.4 Trusted Environment Risks
12:00:52 <kaz> q+
12:01:20 <kaz> ml: Security and Privacy section is normative. right?
12:03:35 <kaz> kaz: as the WoT Team Contact, I'm a bit concerned to simply remove this definition given it plays an important role for section 10
12:04:00 <kaz> ... we could ask TAG and Security guys to quickly review the definition
12:04:15 <kaz> ... and would suggest we explain the situation to Ralph as well
12:04:29 <mlagally> proposal: Ask TAG group for review of the terminology definition of a trusted environment in the context of WoT architecture.
12:05:55 <kaz> ml: who would contact whom?
12:06:18 <kaz> kaz: would suggest McCool send a message to Ralph CCing team-wot
12:06:25 <kaz> ... as the starting point
12:06:34 <mlagally> proposal: Michael McCool will send a message to Ralph Swick to ask TAG group for review of the terminology definition of a trusted environment in the context of WoT architecture.
12:07:00 <kaz> kaz: can help McCool
12:07:14 <mlagally> resolution: Michael McCool will send a message to Ralph Swick to ask TAG group for review of the terminology definition of a trusted environment in the context of WoT architecture.
12:08:29 <kaz> s/kaz: can help McCool//
12:08:42 <kaz> kaz: can help McCool for that
12:09:00 <kaz> ... e.g., by pinging Ralph and PLH
12:09:05 <kaz> [adjourned]
12:09:10 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
12:09:17 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:09:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
12:12:15 <kaz> i/shows the latest result of/subtopic: Profile Implementation Report/
12:12:19 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:12:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
12:13:26 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/881||
12:13:27 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:13:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
12:15:23 <kaz> s/topic: Remaining Issues for CR Transition/subtopic: Remaining Issues for CR Transition/
12:15:24 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:15:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
12:16:47 <kaz> s/topic: CR Exit Criteria/subtopic: CR Exit Criteria/
12:18:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:18:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/24-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
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