– DRAFT –
Publishing Community Group, Education Task Force Telecon

<tzviya> date: 2022-11-16

Discuss/plan for outreach to Open Annotations WG re use case submitted by Gautier Chomel https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/46 https://www.w3.org/annotation/ https://annotator.apache.org/ https://readwise.io/

Paul-first agenda item, at pub meeting group we discussed Gautier's annotations use case, suggested reaching out to annotation work group
… in order to make a universal solution, ereaders should participate and that isn't likely...
… trying to figure out what is a viable way forward for Gautier's use case

<Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to clarify

<tzviya> https://www.w3.org/annotation/

Tzviya the web annotations group grew out of the open annotations group. But nothing has happened to the best of my knowledge in the last 5 years

There are was an attempt at open annotations for epub that never took off
… this has been tried before, the spec exists, we may want to start there..
… this is about implementation not about new spec

Paul is the reality that we are up against a wall here?

Tzviya: not a wall, but we don't need to start with spec. The work is with implementation. We can start with Thorium and other readers. This is larger than education.
… it comes up in every single discussion we have in EPUB, does the committee want to take this on

thanks Tzviya!

Gauthier: I want to be able to store my annotations in a place that I choose, like my dropbox so I can use them in my different operating systems...

<tzviya> see https://www.w3.org/TR/annotation-model

what I need is to create a base of notes that are linked to one single source...

Need-name: We have the structure but if we don't allow internal annotations we may lose something.

Laurent: there are many web systems for annotations, there is a matter of interactivity, the web isn't the same as for books...

Laurent: we need to work on something that is interoperable

Tzviya: Why are you bringing this up in the Education TF?
… the protocol exists in a web annotations model, until there is something that holds all epubs, that can't exist

Gautier: I brought this to the EdTF because it is one reason academics prefer web pages and PDFs to Epubs
… if I want to make notes in an epub, I am stuck. I can make notes outside the publication. I believe there is a gap in the usage for education communities that needs to be address through annotation.

Paul: I feel a little bit at a loss about the next step. Once Thorium is finished, maybe we can take it to the other reader systems. What is a reasonable next step?

Tzviya: We are trying to accomplish a few things here, trying to incorporate Zotero and web annotations...

Tzviya: I don't know if annotations will solve the problems for text books. If what we're trying to accomplish is interopterability... is the problem ZZotero or addressability within epub as a whole

Gautier: to make epub work the way PDFs and HTML work

Tzviya: What is the use case for Epub vs PDF/HTML

Gautier: accessibility

Tzviya: Journal article or book?

Gautier: Book

Gautier: I have a better reading experience with Epub, but a lower User Experience. I would like to be able to only use Epubs and Webpage and get rid of PDFs In my research, but I don't have a working solution.

Tzviya: You would like to be able to choose your annotation tool inside the epub?

Laurent: or use the annotation tool within the Epub

Laurent: we could try to reach an agreement with other systems?

Tzviya: I don't this this would work because people were offered this at one time with Apache-annotator

Gautier: maybe this can stay open, and we can reach out to Thorium

Paul: That sounds good. When you have an implementation maybe we can circle back

Paul: Next agenda item: are the any new use cases

sueneu: had interviews - ppl missing page numbers in EPUBs - looking for some way of citation

Susan: I'm working on a Use Case around page numbers but not sure how to prodeed

Tzviya: The locators task for is working on a way to add locators/pagination she will reach out to Wendy. Things we have tried haven't been well received.

Paul: I have conversations going that I think will result in use cases, they are taking some time to resolve into use cases

Tzviya: I also have something and am looking for time to write it up.

Paul: The frustrating thing about this is not having many use cases to discuss.

Paul: Hopefully by the new year we will have a collection of Use Cases to plug into

Susan: Is there a slack channel?

Tzviya: We could create a publishing slack channel withing the W3c Slack

Paul: I could reach out to Ralph?

Tzviya: : I'll reach out

<sueneu> s/Patchy/Apache

<sueneu> s/suggeted/suggested/