IRC log of forms on 2022-11-11
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/11/11-forms-irc
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- RRSAgent, make logs public
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- Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
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- Date: 11 November 2022
- 14:40:24 [Steven]
- Chair: Steven
- 14:40:36 [Steven]
- Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Nov/0005
- 14:41:11 [Steven]
- Previous Meeting: https://www.w3.org/2022/10/21-forms-minutes
- 14:41:21 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:41:21 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/11-forms-minutes.html Steven
- 15:05:47 [Steven]
- Topic: ACTION-2314: Compose text that matches the <control/> discussion for
- 15:05:47 [Steven]
- mirroring (Steven)
- 15:05:47 [Steven]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Nov/0004
- 15:06:03 [Steven]
- Steven: Not sure where Alain is. I'll send him a message.
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- 15:06:58 [Steven]
- Present: Alain, Erik, Steven
- 15:07:06 [Steven]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Nov/0004
- 15:07:19 [Alain]
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- 15:07:22 [Steven]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Nov/0004
- 15:08:43 [Steven]
- Steven: Have a look at that, which records the requirements and decisions we have made to date, and puts questions that need an answer.
- 15:09:09 [Steven]
- ... There's one other question that has arisen for me since then: is the mirroring bi-directional?
- 15:11:45 [Steven]
- Steven: Q1 Shape of the data. Are there restrictions, or is the ref just copied in?
- 15:12:57 [Steven]
- Erik: We don't do anything special. The only restriction is that the control binds to an element, which becomes the root element of the mirroring.
- 15:13:11 [Steven]
- Steven: Is the receiver just an instance?
- 15:14:21 [Steven]
- Erik: Yes, it has to be an instance (in our implementation). Technically you could, like @targetref in submission
- 15:14:44 [Steven]
- ... we didn;t have a need for a sub-instance
- 15:14:49 [Steven]
- s/;/'/
- 15:15:46 [Steven]
- Steven: So this suggests that the <instance/> element should have an @instance element, rather than a @ref.
- 15:16:26 [Steven]
- Alain: Why not an attribute, for instance for a colour picker control.
- 15:17:03 [Steven]
- Erik: We would need to decide how the mirroring would work. A root element on an instance is easier to handle.
- 15:17:46 [Steven]
- ... you do in general bind to an attribute or element in XForms.
- 15:18:24 [Steven]
- ... From the embedded form, you are going to change the text node, so if you are controlling the vlaue, how does the embedded for know what you are bound to?
- 15:19:23 [Steven]
- ... For attributes I'm not sure how to do it, though it would be good to be able to do that.
- 15:20:44 [Steven]
- Steven: If we did allow attributes, would it be allowable to bind an attribute on one side to an element on the other?
- 15:21:56 [Steven]
- Erik: Yes, as long as the embedded form doesn't have children.
- 15:22:24 [Steven]
- Steven: So the answer to Q1 is yes.
- 15:22:46 [Steven]
- Erik; There are binding restrictions in the spec. You can't bind an <input/> to an element with children.
- 15:22:54 [Steven]
- s/;/:/
- 15:23:36 [Steven]
- Steven: That uses special knowledge about the elements. We would need to be able to specify that.
- 15:25:04 [Steven]
- Steven: Q2: DOes the nirroring work in both directions?
- 15:25:10 [Steven]
- s/DO/Do/
- 15:25:40 [Steven]
- Erik: We do both.
- 15:25:52 [Steven]
- ... there is a trick: which direction initially.
- 15:26:14 [Steven]
- ...EG If the embedding is responsible for saving the data.
- 15:26:42 [Steven]
- ... The subform supplies the data
- 15:26:57 [Steven]
- ... the ebedder doesn't have any initial values.
- 15:27:33 [Steven]
- ... Case 2, the outer form does have initial values.
- 15:27:53 [Steven]
- s/ebedder/embedder/
- 15:28:15 [Steven]
- Erik: There needs to be a way to specify.
- 15:29:28 [Steven]
- ... The logic we use is if the embedded form is bound to an an element, and the element contains *any* content* that is used as the initial values. If it *is* empty, it gets the values from the embedder.
- 15:30:01 [Steven]
- Steven: Q3 Do events perform any differently in either forms?
- 15:30:58 [Steven]
- Erik: It's not only bubbling.
- 15:31:52 [Steven]
- ... but I'm not sure how it work.
- 15:33:20 [Steven]
- ... we can explore that.
- 15:36:50 [Steven]
- ... I want to avoid duplicating events.
- 15:37:53 [Steven]
- Alain: How it is implemented should be independent of the notation
- 15:38:22 [Steven]
- ... we should have events as specced.
- 15:38:51 [Steven]
- Erik: I'm not requiring web components, just bearing in mind how they are done there.
- 15:39:33 [Steven]
- Alain: If the embedded form is just a subtree, it should continue to work the same.
- 15:40:24 [Steven]
- Erik: If you embed a form does the embedding form get new stuff; are all the embedded forms events bubbling out?
- 15:40:47 [Steven]
- ... I think it would be better if they didn't.
- 15:42:04 [Steven]
- Steven: Q4 What are the ramifications for xforms-ready.
- 15:42:19 [Steven]
- Alain: We have subform-ready event in XSLT Forms
- 15:43:05 [Steven]
- TOPIC: Declarative Amsterdam
- 15:47:26 [Steven]
- Steven: It went well. I talked at length with the person from Fore, who are the people from Betterforms. We talked about possibilities of convergind.
- 15:47:57 [Steven]
- ... Good turnout, about 75 attendees, from all over the world, even in person. Next year is 2/3 Nov (Thurs/Friday)
- 15:48:04 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 15:48:04 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/11-forms-minutes.html Steven
- 15:51:24 [Steven]
- s/nirroring/mirroring
- 15:52:24 [Steven]
- s/convergind/converging
- 15:52:51 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 15:52:51 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/11-forms-minutes.html Steven
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