Meeting minutes
Publishing Community Group November session: 2022-11-09
Topic 1: recap
<zheng_xu> wolfgang: doing recap of last meeting
Topic 2: counterfeiting TF
<zheng_xu> https://
liisa: starting counterfeit TF - put an issue into Github repo - identify an authentic edition - files are stolen, manipulated and sold - purpose: passive income - find a way to identify files that are not authentic
<liisamk> Issue on the repo: https://
zheng: do you have a plan when the first meeting would be?
liisa: hopefully meet next week and then have follow-up meetings
wendyreid: part of this problem - this might be unique to one platform - Kobo has systems in place to avoid counterfeiting
… case where a book is held on one platform - exclusivity contracts with 1 platform
… self-publishers may also be affected - solution should also be manageable for a self-publishing authors without deep tech expertise
<tzviya> https://
tzviya: another issue 39 that relates to that topic - we should include that in our discussions - problem is not exclusive to one platform
<zheng_xu> https://
zheng: if more members will join this TF, we can launch the TF
Topic 2: Repo issue: 47
<zheng_xu> https://
How to write the OPF of a book containing two or more translations of the same work? #47
wendyreid: came to WG repo first - modifying OPF file for a book that contained several language versions of the same content - too late in the work cycle for EPUB 3.3
… should explore more in detail
… as a reader who wants a book with several translations in it
… able to read + search + manage in the language of my choice
… what are we going to do with content that has several translations in it
… also interlinear text, e.g. opera librettos (original Italian, English, muscial notation at the same time) - how to do that and in an accessible way?
zheng: how do RS handle the several languages inside the OPF - in some RS OPF language info for choosing print fonts -
… do we have more use cases for this issue?
Naomi: long discussion in A11Y TF about A11Y metadata - we do have to note that A11Y Summary and features should be taken into account in this context
tzviya: interlinear - a lot of CSS work on that - classic example: interlinear Bible (Hebrew, English) or prayerbook - in EPUB this doesn't work yet - in OPF corresponding problem: which is the original language
… how can I convey that this is a book with two languages
Naomi: a good example - doc without primary language - EU documentation - a lot of languages, but none is primary - potentially an edge case
wendyreid: distributor reported errors about multiple occurrence of xml:lang or Dublin Core data which would be correct by the standard - if you have got several language versions of a title and a user wants to access it with still a further language
… instruction manuals with many languages - if you are online, you may just download it in your language - we don't need to recreate print solution here
zheng: we do have use case of one book containing several languages, e.g. Bible - XML metadata should be able to handle parallel metadata for title, etc.
… suppose it can be handled in OPF
liisa: a lot of bilingual children's books - different languages on the same page - children's picturebooks in FXL show that
zheng: may we have samples of that
liisa: yes
Naomi: how does ONIX handle this?
<wendyreid> http://
Gregorio: ONIX handles this - you may have textual metadata in several languages
Naomi: we may look at this as a starting point
Gregorio: Publication is in English - you put in descriptive metadata for the Chinese market for marketing purposes in China - but also publications with multiple languages
Naomi: interesting to see whether the retailer that rejected the product, would be able to handle a ONIX file like Gregorio described it
wendyreid: distributors could have a reason for policing metadata - difference between translations of a book and a bilingual book - with a primary language or a target language
… we can't do the same thing as ONIX - in an OPF or JSON - we do have such content in the market so it's relevant to us
zheng: do we have an action item for this? What could be done to identify the gap?
wendyreid: not our business what this one distributor is doing
<zheng_xu> +1 to tzviya
naomi: we want a guidance document for retailers how to handle such stuff, e.g. 3 dc:Title elements - what should be displayed? - ordering or sequence identifiers - this would be what we as CG would expect retailers to do
<Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to suggest mapping to onix
tzviya: hesitate to write a rec for retailers on metadata which are typically ignored - figuring how to handle multiple languages handling in OPF by mapping to ONIX
gautier: on a RS perspective, it's very good to have a use case - in Thorium we will display the language that matches the language setting of the user - if none, we use the first entry
… in some case you get a book as a French book though it also contains Arabic because your setting is French - glad to see that use case and have discussion about it
zheng: map between OPF and ONIX regarding language metadata - test behaviour with different RS
ACTION: Item: Map between OPF and UNIX + Test behavior of different RS
Naomi: would not explore multiple renditions
Topic 3: Update from Ed-TF
<Paul_belfanti> https://
paul: we do have a use case - changed start-time to 10 a.m. EST - Susan Neuhaus started a discussion with a university librarian nd created a use case - Gautier also formulated a use case (Issue 46)
gautier: related to RS - Thorium will implement annotation system - as I user I may use different RS on several gadgets (mobile, Web browser, etc.) - way of annotating a doc that is cross-RS and cross-document
… we are looking at Hypothesis - here you create an account at their web site - I would prefer not to depend on a specific account
paul: would that be a kind of database that may be accessed
gautier: Hypothesis is based on Open Annotations - you have to identify the book across different RS and store your annotations independently
naomi: don't know whether the Ed-TF has looked into the work of the Annotations TF a couple of years ago - could be a good starting-point
<tzviya> https://
<wendyreid> https://
wendyreid: you could de a straight implementation of Web Annotations - there is also readwise.io - but you will need some kind of infrastructure as a serviec to make that happen
<wendyreid> https://
paul: great to hear about work of the Annotation TF -
liisa: other annotation discussions in the Publishing Salon - idea of selling annotations- where would we store more use cases
zheng: discuss that per mail
<tzviya> https://
<Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to talk about issues with anno
tzviya: Annotation WG not TF - Hypothesis based on that work - Apache Annotator is an incubation - ready for use is basically Hypothesis - tough sell to get RS vendors accept interoperable annotations -
… conversation with RS vendors needed
Topic 4: A11Y TF update
A11Y camp organized by LIA - discussed feedback from several countries to A11Y metadata - improve accessibility of MARC/ONIX metadata - survey held on A11Y summary (?)