IRC log of publishingcg on 2022-11-09
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:55:42 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/11/09-publishingcg-irc
- 15:55:49 [tzviya]
- zakim, start meeting
- 15:56:23 [zheng_xu]
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- present+
- 16:00:18 [wolfgang]
- present+ wolfgang
- 16:00:51 [wolfgang]
- Scribe: wolfgang
- 16:00:55 [gautier]
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- 16:01:13 [Naomi]
- present+
- 16:01:28 [tzviya]
- present+
- 16:01:34 [gautier]
- present+
- 16:01:59 [wolfgang]
- Publishing Community Group November session: 2022-11-09
- 16:02:16 [jamesY]
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- 16:02:46 [zheng_xu]
- present+
- 16:03:09 [gpellegrino]
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- 16:03:28 [wolfgang]
- Topic 1: recap
- 16:03:41 [gpellegrino]
- present+
- 16:03:43 [jamesY]
- present+
- 16:03:52 [zheng_xu]
- wolfgang: doing recap of last meeting
- 16:03:56 [wendyreid]
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- 16:04:00 [liisamk]
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- 16:04:04 [liisamk]
- present+
- 16:05:36 [Bill_Kasdorf]
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- 16:05:39 [wendyreid]
- present+
- 16:05:44 [Bill_Kasdorf]
- present+
- 16:06:16 [wolfgang]
- Topic 2: counterfeiting TF
- 16:06:39 [zheng_xu]
- https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/49
- 16:07:57 [wolfgang]
- liisa: starting counterfeit TF - put an issue into Github repo - identify an authentic edition - files are stolen, manipulated and sold - purpose: passive income - find a way to identify files that are not authentic
- 16:08:25 [liisamk]
- Issue on the repo: https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/49
- 16:08:28 [zheng_xu]
- q+
- 16:08:31 [Paul_belfanti]
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- 16:08:39 [Paul_belfanti]
- present+
- 16:08:56 [wolfgang]
- zheng: do you have a plan when the first meeting would be?
- 16:09:25 [wendyreid]
- q+
- 16:09:27 [wolfgang]
- liisa: hopefully meet next week and then have follow-up meetings
- 16:09:28 [tzviya]
- q+
- 16:10:27 [wolfgang]
- wendyreid: part of this problem - this might be unique to one problem - Kobo has systems in place to avoid counterfeiting
- 16:11:08 [wolfgang]
- ... case where a book is held on one platform - exclusivity contracts with 1 platform
- 16:11:16 [zheng_xu]
- q?
- 16:11:40 [Bill_Kasdorf]
- s/unique to one problem/unique to one platform/
- 16:11:42 [liisamk]
- q+
- 16:11:47 [wolfgang]
- ... self-publishers may also be affected - solution should also be manageable for a self-publishing authors without deep tech expertise
- 16:11:50 [tzviya]
- https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/39
- 16:12:16 [Dan_Sanicola]
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- 16:12:29 [Dan_Sanicola]
- present+
- 16:12:34 [wolfgang]
- tzviya: another issue 39 that relates to that topic - we should include that in our discussions - problem is not exclusive to one platform
- 16:12:37 [zheng_xu]
- https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/39
- 16:13:20 [wolfgang]
- zheng: if more members will join this TF, we can launch the TF
- 16:13:32 [liisamk]
- q-
- 16:13:43 [wolfgang]
- Topic 2: Repo issue: 47
- 16:13:50 [zheng_xu]
- https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/47
- 16:14:12 [wolfgang]
- How to write the OPF of a book containing two or more translations of the same work? #47
- 16:14:16 [wendyreid]
- q+
- 16:15:43 [wolfgang]
- wendyreid: came to WG repo first - modifying OPF file for a book that contained several language versions of the same content - too late in the work cycle for EPUB 3.3
- 16:16:00 [wolfgang]
- ... should explore more in detail
- 16:16:20 [wolfgang]
- ... as a reader who wants a book with several translations in it
- 16:16:53 [wolfgang]
- ... able to read + search + manage in the language of my choice
- 16:17:21 [wolfgang]
- ... what are we going to do with content that has several translations in it
- 16:18:19 [zheng_xu]
- q+
- 16:18:26 [wolfgang]
- ... also interlinear text, e.g. opera librettos (original Italian, English, muscial notation at the same time) - how to do that and in an accessible way?
- 16:18:39 [Zakim]
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- 16:19:23 [tzviya]
- q+
- 16:20:15 [wolfgang]
- zheng: how do RS handle the several languages inside the OPF - in some RS OPF language info for choosing print fonts -
- 16:20:42 [wolfgang]
- ... do we have more use cases for this issue?
- 16:21:02 [zheng_xu]
- q?
- 16:21:47 [wolfgang]
- Naomi: long discussion in A11Y TF about A11Y metadata - we do have to note that A11Y Summary and features should be taken into account in this context
- 16:23:54 [wolfgang]
- tzviya: interlinear - a lot of CSS work on that - classic example: interlinear Bible (Hebrew, English) or prayerbook - in EPUB this doesn't work yet - in OPF corresponding problem: which is the original language
- 16:24:00 [Naomi]
- q+
- 16:24:15 [wendyreid]
- q+
- 16:24:19 [tzviya]
- ack me
- 16:24:23 [wolfgang]
- ... how can I convey that this is a book with two languages
- 16:24:29 [zheng_xu]
- q?
- 16:25:11 [tzviya]
- ack Naomi
- 16:25:25 [wolfgang]
- Naomi: a good example - doc without primary language - EU documentation - a lot of languages, but none is primary - potentially an edge case
- 16:25:54 [tzviya]
- ack we
- 16:26:37 [zheng_xu]
- q+
- 16:27:13 [jeff_griggs]
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- 16:27:35 [wolfgang]
- wendyreid: distributor reported errors about multiple occurrence of xml:lang or Dublin Core data which would be correct by the standard - if you have got several language versions of a title and a user wants to access it with still a further language
- 16:27:53 [jeff_griggs]
- present+
- 16:28:30 [zheng_xu]
- q?
- 16:28:38 [zheng_xu]
- ack zheng_xu
- 16:28:45 [liisamk]
- q+
- 16:28:55 [wolfgang]
- ... instruction manuals with many languages - if you are online, you may just download it in your language - we don't need to recreate print solution here
- 16:30:20 [Naomi]
- q+
- 16:30:30 [wolfgang]
- zheng: we do have use case of one book containing several languages, e.g. Bible - XML metadata should be able to handle parallel metadata for title, etc.
- 16:30:43 [zheng_xu]
- q?
- 16:30:49 [wolfgang]
- ... suppose it can be handled in OPF
- 16:31:52 [wolfgang]
- liisa: a lot of bilingual children's books - different languages on the same page - children's picturebooks in FXL show that
- 16:32:02 [wendyreid]
- q+
- 16:32:03 [zheng_xu]
- q?
- 16:32:03 [wolfgang]
- zheng: may we have samples of that
- 16:32:09 [zheng_xu]
- ack liisamk
- 16:32:12 [wolfgang]
- liisa: yes
- 16:32:13 [zheng_xu]
- ack Naomi
- 16:32:17 [zheng_xu]
- q?
- 16:32:30 [wolfgang]
- Naomi: how does ONIX handle this?
- 16:32:53 [wendyreid]
- http://www.onix-codelists.io/codelist/22
- 16:32:57 [wolfgang]
- Gregorio: ONIX handles this - you may have textual metadata in several languages
- 16:33:15 [wolfgang]
- Naomi: we may look at this as a starting point
- 16:34:19 [wolfgang]
- Gregorio: Publication is in English - you put in descriptive metadata for the Chinese market for marketing purposes in China - but also publications with multiple languages
- 16:35:16 [wolfgang]
- Naomi: interesting to see whether the retailer that rejected the product, would be able to handle a ONIX file like Gregorio described it
- 16:35:40 [zheng_xu]
- q?
- 16:35:45 [zheng_xu]
- ack wendyreid
- 16:37:21 [Daihei_]
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- 16:37:28 [Daihei_]
- present+
- 16:37:59 [wolfgang]
- wendyreid: distributors could have a reason for policing metadata - difference between translations of a book and a bilingual book - with a primary language or a target language
- 16:38:23 [zheng_xu]
- q?
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- 16:38:33 [Daihei__]
- present+
- 16:38:49 [wolfgang]
- ... we can't do the same thing as ONIX - in an OPF or JSON - we do have such content in the market so it's relevant to us
- 16:39:27 [wolfgang]
- zheng: do we have an action item for this? What could be done to identify the gap?
- 16:39:41 [tzviya]
- q+ to suggest mapping to onix
- 16:40:01 [wolfgang]
- wendyreid: not our business what this one distributor is doing
- 16:40:01 [zheng_xu]
- q?
- 16:40:20 [zheng_xu]
- +1 to tzviya
- 16:40:48 [gautier]
- q+
- 16:41:34 [wolfgang]
- naomi: we want a guidance document for retailers how to handle such stuff, e.g. 3 dc:Title elements - what should be displayed? - ordering or sequence identifiers - this would be what we as CG would expect retailers to do
- 16:41:42 [zheng_xu]
- q?
- 16:41:47 [zheng_xu]
- ack tzviya
- 16:41:47 [Zakim]
- tzviya, you wanted to suggest mapping to onix
- 16:42:13 [Dan_Sanicola]
- q+
- 16:42:56 [wolfgang]
- tzviya: hesitate to write a rec for retailers on metadata which are typically ignored - figuring how to handle multiple languages handling in OPF
- 16:43:26 [Dan_Sanicola]
- q-
- 16:43:54 [tzviya]
- s/figuring how to handle multiple languages handling in OPF/figuring how to handle multiple languages handling in OPF by mapping to ONIX
- 16:43:57 [wolfgang]
- gautier: on a RS perspective, it's very good to have a use case - in Thorium we will display the language that matches the language setting of the user - if none, we use the first entry
- 16:44:58 [wolfgang]
- ... in some case you get a book as a French book though it also contains Arabic because your setting is French - glad to see that use case and have discussion about it
- 16:45:00 [zheng_xu]
- q?
- 16:46:12 [wolfgang]
- zheng: map between OPF and ONIX regarding language metadata - test behaviour with different RS
- 16:46:19 [Naomi]
- q+
- 16:46:50 [wolfgang]
- Action Item: Map between OPF and UNIX + Test behavior of different RS
- 16:46:51 [zheng_xu]
- ack Naomi
- 16:47:09 [wolfgang]
- Naomi: would not explore multiple renditions
- 16:47:28 [wolfgang]
- Topic 3: Update from Ed-TF
- 16:48:46 [Paul_belfanti]
- https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/46
- 16:49:06 [wolfgang]
- paul: we do have a use case - changed start-time to 10 a.m. EST - Susan Neuhaus started a discussion with a university librarian nd created a use case - Gautier also formulated a use case (Issue 46)
- 16:50:38 [zheng_xu]
- q?
- 16:50:47 [zheng_xu]
- ack gautier
- 16:51:02 [wolfgang]
- gautier: related to RS - Thorium will implement annotation system - as I user I may use different RS on several gadgets (mobile, Web browser, etc.) - way of annotating a doc that is cross-RS and cross-document
- 16:51:35 [gpellegrino]
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- 16:52:19 [Naomi]
- q+
- 16:52:22 [wolfgang]
- ... we are looking at Hypothesis - here you create an account at their web site - I would prefer not to depend on a specific account
- 16:52:29 [wendyreid]
- q+
- 16:52:40 [wolfgang]
- paul: would that be a kind of database that may be accessed
- 16:53:29 [wolfgang]
- gautier: Hypothesis is based on Open Annotations - you have to identify the book across different RS and store your annotations independently
- 16:53:41 [zheng_xu]
- q?
- 16:54:03 [Paul_belfanti]
- q+
- 16:54:06 [zheng_xu]
- ack Naomi
- 16:54:20 [wolfgang]
- naomi: don't know whether the Ed-TF has looked into the work of the Annotations TF a couple of years ago - could be a good starting-point
- 16:54:28 [zheng_xu]
- ack wendyreid
- 16:54:29 [liisamk]
- q+
- 16:54:46 [tzviya]
- https://annotator.apache.org/
- 16:54:52 [wendyreid]
- https://readwise.io/
- 16:55:52 [wolfgang]
- wendyreid: you could de a straight implementation of Web Annotations - there is also readwise.io - but you will need some kind of infrastructure as a serviec to make that happen
- 16:56:20 [wendyreid]
- https://www.w3.org/annotation/
- 16:56:28 [tzviya]
- q+ to talk about issues with anno
- 16:56:36 [wolfgang]
- paul: great to hear about work of the Annotation TF -
- 16:56:37 [zheng_xu]
- ack Paul_belfanti
- 16:57:26 [wolfgang]
- liisa: other annotation discussions in the Publishing Salon - idea of selling annotations- where would we store more use cases
- 16:57:40 [wolfgang]
- zheng: discuss that per mail
- 16:58:03 [tzviya]
- https://annotator.apache.org
- 16:58:20 [zheng_xu]
- q?
- 16:58:25 [zheng_xu]
- ack liisamk
- 16:58:29 [zheng_xu]
- ack tzviya
- 16:58:29 [Zakim]
- tzviya, you wanted to talk about issues with anno
- 16:59:16 [wolfgang]
- tzviya: Annotation WG not TF - Hypothesis based on that work - Apache Annotator is an incubation - ready for use is basically Hypothesis - tough sell to get RS vendors accept interoperable annotations -
- 16:59:43 [wolfgang]
- ... conversation with RS vendors needed
- 17:00:02 [wolfgang]
- Topic 4: A11Y TF update
- 17:01:49 [wolfgang]
- A11Y camp organized by LIA - discussed feedback from several countries to A11Y metadata - improve accessibility of MARC/ONIX metadata - survey held on A11Y summary (?)
- 17:06:32 [jeff_griggs]
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- 17:06:57 [wolfgang]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 17:06:57 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/09-publishingcg-minutes.html wolfgang
- 17:07:47 [wolfgang]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 17:07:47 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/09-publishingcg-minutes.html wolfgang
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- rrsagent, make logs public
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