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15:55:49 <tzviya> zakim, start meeting
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15:59:35 <AvneeshSingh> present+
16:00:18 <wolfgang> present+ wolfgang
16:00:51 <wolfgang> Scribe: wolfgang
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16:01:13 <Naomi> present+
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16:01:59 <wolfgang> Publishing Community Group November session: 2022-11-09
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16:03:28 <wolfgang> Topic 1: recap
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16:03:52 <zheng_xu> wolfgang: doing recap of last meeting
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16:06:16 <wolfgang> Topic 2: counterfeiting TF
16:06:39 <zheng_xu> https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/49
16:07:57 <wolfgang> liisa: starting counterfeit TF - put an issue into Github repo - identify an authentic edition - files are stolen, manipulated and sold - purpose: passive income - find a way to identify files that are not authentic
16:08:25 <liisamk> Issue on the repo: https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/49
16:08:28 <zheng_xu> q+
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16:08:56 <wolfgang> zheng: do you have a plan when the first meeting would be?
16:09:25 <wendyreid> q+
16:09:27 <wolfgang> liisa: hopefully meet next week and then have follow-up meetings
16:09:28 <tzviya> q+
16:10:27 <wolfgang> wendyreid: part of this problem - this might be unique to one problem - Kobo has systems in place to avoid counterfeiting
16:11:08 <wolfgang> ... case where a book is held on one platform - exclusivity contracts with 1 platform
16:11:16 <zheng_xu> q?
16:11:40 <Bill_Kasdorf> s/unique to one problem/unique to one platform/
16:11:42 <liisamk> q+
16:11:47 <wolfgang> ... self-publishers may also be affected - solution should also be manageable for a self-publishing authors without deep tech expertise
16:11:50 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/39
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16:12:29 <Dan_Sanicola> present+
16:12:34 <wolfgang> tzviya: another issue 39 that relates to that topic - we should include that in our discussions - problem is not exclusive to one platform
16:12:37 <zheng_xu> https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/39
16:13:20 <wolfgang> zheng: if more members will join this TF, we can launch the TF
16:13:32 <liisamk> q-
16:13:43 <wolfgang> Topic 2: Repo issue: 47
16:13:50 <zheng_xu> https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/47
16:14:12 <wolfgang>  How to write the OPF of a book containing two or more translations of the same work? #47
16:14:16 <wendyreid> q+
16:15:43 <wolfgang> wendyreid: came to WG repo first - modifying OPF file for a book that contained several language versions of the same content - too late in the work cycle for EPUB 3.3
16:16:00 <wolfgang> ... should explore more in detail
16:16:20 <wolfgang> ... as a reader who wants a book with several translations in it
16:16:53 <wolfgang> ... able to read + search + manage in the language of my choice
16:17:21 <wolfgang> ... what are we going to do with content that has several translations in it
16:18:19 <zheng_xu> q+
16:18:26 <wolfgang> ... also interlinear text, e.g. opera librettos (original Italian, English, muscial notation at the same time) - how to do that and in an accessible way?
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16:19:23 <tzviya> q+
16:20:15 <wolfgang> zheng: how do RS handle the several languages inside the OPF - in some RS OPF language info for choosing print fonts -
16:20:42 <wolfgang> ... do we have more use cases for this issue?
16:21:02 <zheng_xu> q?
16:21:47 <wolfgang> Naomi: long discussion in A11Y TF about A11Y metadata - we do have to note that A11Y Summary and features should be taken into account in this context
16:23:54 <wolfgang> tzviya: interlinear - a lot of CSS work on that - classic example: interlinear Bible (Hebrew, English) or prayerbook - in EPUB this doesn't work yet - in OPF corresponding problem: which is the original language
16:24:00 <Naomi> q+
16:24:15 <wendyreid> q+
16:24:19 <tzviya> ack me
16:24:23 <wolfgang> ... how can I convey that this is a book with two languages
16:24:29 <zheng_xu> q?
16:25:11 <tzviya> ack Naomi
16:25:25 <wolfgang> Naomi: a good example - doc without primary language - EU documentation - a lot of languages, but none is primary - potentially an edge case
16:25:54 <tzviya> ack we
16:26:37 <zheng_xu> q+
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16:27:35 <wolfgang> wendyreid: distributor reported errors about multiple occurrence of xml:lang or Dublin Core data which would be correct by the standard - if you have got several language versions of a title and a user wants to access it with still a further language
16:27:53 <jeff_griggs> present+
16:28:30 <zheng_xu> q?
16:28:38 <zheng_xu> ack zheng_xu
16:28:45 <liisamk> q+
16:28:55 <wolfgang> ... instruction manuals with many languages - if you are online, you may just download it in your language - we don't need to recreate print solution here
16:30:20 <Naomi> q+
16:30:30 <wolfgang> zheng: we do have use case of one book containing several languages, e.g. Bible - XML metadata should be able to handle parallel metadata for title, etc.
16:30:43 <zheng_xu> q?
16:30:49 <wolfgang> ... suppose it can be handled in OPF
16:31:52 <wolfgang> liisa: a lot of bilingual children's books - different languages on the same page - children's picturebooks in FXL show that
16:32:02 <wendyreid> q+
16:32:03 <zheng_xu> q?
16:32:03 <wolfgang> zheng: may we have samples of that
16:32:09 <zheng_xu> ack liisamk
16:32:12 <wolfgang> liisa: yes
16:32:13 <zheng_xu> ack Naomi
16:32:17 <zheng_xu> q?
16:32:30 <wolfgang> Naomi: how does ONIX handle this?
16:32:53 <wendyreid> http://www.onix-codelists.io/codelist/22
16:32:57 <wolfgang> Gregorio: ONIX handles this - you may have textual metadata in several languages
16:33:15 <wolfgang> Naomi: we may look at this as a starting point
16:34:19 <wolfgang> Gregorio: Publication is in English - you put in descriptive metadata for the Chinese market for marketing purposes in China - but also publications with multiple languages
16:35:16 <wolfgang> Naomi: interesting to see whether the retailer that rejected the product, would be able to handle a ONIX file like Gregorio described it
16:35:40 <zheng_xu> q?
16:35:45 <zheng_xu> ack wendyreid
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16:37:59 <wolfgang> wendyreid: distributors could have a reason for policing metadata - difference between translations of a book and a bilingual book - with a primary language or a target language
16:38:23 <zheng_xu> q?
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16:38:49 <wolfgang> ... we can't do the same thing as ONIX - in an OPF or JSON - we do have such content in the market so it's relevant to us
16:39:27 <wolfgang> zheng: do we have an action item for this? What could be done to identify the gap?
16:39:41 <tzviya> q+ to suggest mapping to onix
16:40:01 <wolfgang> wendyreid: not our business what this one distributor is doing
16:40:01 <zheng_xu> q?
16:40:20 <zheng_xu> +1 to tzviya
16:40:48 <gautier> q+
16:41:34 <wolfgang> naomi: we want a guidance document for retailers how to handle such stuff, e.g. 3 dc:Title elements - what should be displayed? - ordering or sequence identifiers - this would be what we as CG would expect retailers to do
16:41:42 <zheng_xu> q?
16:41:47 <zheng_xu> ack tzviya
16:41:47 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to suggest mapping to onix
16:42:13 <Dan_Sanicola> q+
16:42:56 <wolfgang> tzviya: hesitate to write a rec for retailers on metadata which are typically ignored - figuring how to handle multiple languages handling in OPF
16:43:26 <Dan_Sanicola> q-
16:43:54 <tzviya> s/figuring how to handle multiple languages handling in OPF/figuring how to handle multiple languages handling in OPF by mapping to ONIX
16:43:57 <wolfgang> gautier: on a RS perspective, it's very good to have a use case - in Thorium we will display the language that matches the language setting of the user - if none, we use the first entry
16:44:58 <wolfgang> ... in some case you get a book as a French book though it also contains Arabic because your setting is French - glad to see that use case and have discussion about it
16:45:00 <zheng_xu> q?
16:46:12 <wolfgang> zheng: map between OPF and ONIX regarding language metadata - test behaviour with different RS
16:46:19 <Naomi> q+
16:46:50 <wolfgang> Action Item: Map between OPF and UNIX + Test behavior of different RS
16:46:51 <zheng_xu> ack Naomi
16:47:09 <wolfgang> Naomi: would not explore multiple renditions
16:47:28 <wolfgang> Topic 3: Update from Ed-TF
16:48:46 <Paul_belfanti> https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/46
16:49:06 <wolfgang> paul: we do have a use case - changed start-time to 10 a.m. EST - Susan Neuhaus started a discussion with a university librarian nd created a use case - Gautier also formulated a use case (Issue 46)
16:50:38 <zheng_xu> q?
16:50:47 <zheng_xu> ack gautier
16:51:02 <wolfgang> gautier: related to RS - Thorium will implement annotation system - as I user I may use different RS on several gadgets (mobile, Web browser, etc.) - way of annotating a doc that is cross-RS and cross-document
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16:52:19 <Naomi> q+
16:52:22 <wolfgang> ... we are looking at Hypothesis - here you create an account at their web site - I would prefer not to depend on a specific account
16:52:29 <wendyreid> q+
16:52:40 <wolfgang> paul: would that be a kind of database that may be accessed
16:53:29 <wolfgang> gautier: Hypothesis is based on Open Annotations - you have to identify the book across different RS and store your annotations independently
16:53:41 <zheng_xu> q?
16:54:03 <Paul_belfanti> q+
16:54:06 <zheng_xu> ack Naomi
16:54:20 <wolfgang> naomi: don't know whether the Ed-TF has looked into the work of the Annotations TF a couple of years ago - could be a good starting-point
16:54:28 <zheng_xu> ack wendyreid
16:54:29 <liisamk> q+
16:54:46 <tzviya> https://annotator.apache.org/
16:54:52 <wendyreid> https://readwise.io/
16:55:52 <wolfgang> wendyreid: you could de a straight implementation of Web Annotations - there is also readwise.io - but you will need some kind of infrastructure as a serviec to make that happen
16:56:20 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/annotation/
16:56:28 <tzviya> q+ to talk about issues with anno
16:56:36 <wolfgang> paul: great to hear about work of the Annotation TF -
16:56:37 <zheng_xu> ack Paul_belfanti
16:57:26 <wolfgang> liisa: other annotation discussions in the Publishing Salon - idea of selling annotations- where would we store more use cases
16:57:40 <wolfgang> zheng: discuss that per mail
16:58:03 <tzviya> https://annotator.apache.org
16:58:20 <zheng_xu> q?
16:58:25 <zheng_xu> ack liisamk
16:58:29 <zheng_xu> ack tzviya
16:58:29 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to talk about issues with anno
16:59:16 <wolfgang> tzviya: Annotation WG not TF - Hypothesis based on that work - Apache Annotator is an incubation - ready for use is basically Hypothesis - tough sell to get RS vendors accept interoperable annotations -
16:59:43 <wolfgang> ... conversation with RS vendors needed
17:00:02 <wolfgang> Topic 4: A11Y TF update
17:01:49 <wolfgang> A11Y camp organized by LIA - discussed feedback from several countries to A11Y metadata - improve accessibility of MARC/ONIX metadata - survey held on A11Y summary (?)
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17:06:57 <wolfgang> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:06:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/09-publishingcg-minutes.html wolfgang
17:07:47 <wolfgang> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:07:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/09-publishingcg-minutes.html wolfgang
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