13:55:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pcg-ed
13:55:34 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/11/02-pcg-ed-irc
13:59:24 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pcg-ed
13:59:56 <Bill_Kasdorf> nobody's on the Zoom--I must have an outdated link.
14:00:17 <Bill_Kasdorf> never mind, hi, Charles!
14:00:17 <Paul_Belfanti> zakim, start meeting
14:00:17 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:00:18 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Paul_Belfanti
14:00:27 <Paul_Belfanti> present+
14:02:03 <Paul_Belfanti> Meeting: Publishing Community Group, Education Task Force Telecon Date: 02 November, 2022 Chair: Paul Belfanti
14:02:30 <Paul_Belfanti> Apologies, Zoom has decided to install updates...
14:07:45 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #pcg-ed
14:07:49 <CharlesL> present+
14:07:49 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
14:08:04 <CharlesL> agenda?
14:08:26 <sue-neu> sue-neu has joined #pcg-ed
14:09:05 <Paul_Belfanti> scribenick: sue-neu
14:09:30 <CharlesL> agenda+ Review use case submitted by Gautier Chomel https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/46
14:09:30 <CharlesL> agenda+ Review additional use cases (if any)
14:09:30 <CharlesL> agenda+ Discuss challenges/progress on creating use cases
14:09:30 <CharlesL> agenda+ Other business as time permits
14:09:44 <CharlesL> agenda?
14:09:57 <CharlesL> zakim, next item
14:09:57 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Review use case submitted by Gautier Chomel https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/46 -- taken up [from CharlesL]
14:11:39 <sue-neu> Paul - here we are at the first agenda item, Gautier did a use case, so let's look at it here
14:12:38 <sue-neu> We should come up with a protocol for reviewing these..
14:12:49 <sue-neu> ...I don't think this is going to be an unknown topic here
14:13:41 <sue-neu> Bill he did a very good job structuring this
14:13:59 <sue-neu> Paul, this is very epub focused, and our scope is broader than that
14:14:16 <sue-neu> perhaps we can add "or website"
14:14:37 <sue-neu> Bill Can you make annotations on a website? You can bookmark a web page...
14:15:17 <sue-neu> Charles a third-party host might be a solution
14:15:28 <CharlesL> https://web.hypothes.is/
14:15:53 <sue-neu> Bill like a third party product?
14:16:18 <sue-neu> Paul we can add some comments to this, and the next step is to bring this to the publishing community
14:16:36 <sue-neu> I think this is ready for incubation, I'll get it on the list for the next meeting
14:17:02 <sue-neu> Bill, there are things people are looking at, like locators, that could relate to this.
14:17:10 <sue-neu> addressability is the problem
14:17:23 <sue-neu> Paul what do you mean by addressability?
14:17:44 <sue-neu> Bill the ability to point to a particular resource, we have CFI in Epub
14:18:19 <sue-neu> Charles mentioned hypothesis of outside website in Use Case comments
14:18:32 <CharlesL> zakim, take up next item
14:18:32 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Review additional use cases (if any) -- taken up [from CharlesL]
14:18:39 <sue-neu> Paul, we have no Use Cases, so we can talk about getting more
14:19:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> s/a particular resource/a location within a particular resource/
14:19:05 <sue-neu> I'm hopeful I'll be able to connect, but it's clearly going to be time consuming to find the right person who is ready and willing
14:20:34 <sue-neu> I'm afraid the response would be too big if I post this on LinkedIN
14:20:55 <sue-neu> SUSAN: I've had two good interviews
14:21:01 <sue-neu> I'm still collating the data
14:21:26 <sue-neu> I spoke to a librarian who manages digital collections
14:21:35 <sue-neu> And an ebook producer consultant
14:22:01 <Bill_Kasdorf> Sue, were those education-focused?
14:22:12 <sue-neu> Bill, yes.
14:22:19 <Bill_Kasdorf> Excellent!
14:22:25 <sue-neu> I can share my Miro board with the data
14:22:47 <sue-neu> She had a lot to say!
14:23:15 <sue-neu> Yes, she works for a University
14:23:28 <sue-neu> Graduate level clinical students. She helps them with their research
14:24:46 <sue-neu> Sue's Miro board with interview data
14:24:50 <sue-neu> https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVPHmhWnk=/?share_link_id=441991812353
14:25:14 <sue-neu> Charles are journals worth looking into?
14:26:06 <sue-neu> Bill most journals are online or use PDF, I'm doing a presentation on accessibility, and I make the point that a journal article is just html
14:26:32 <sue-neu> I have a slide about What's so good about epub? I go line by line for six or eight advantages
14:27:00 <sue-neu> I get acomment "What about PDFs"? and I point out that it isn't as accessible as epub
14:28:06 <sue-neu> Bill I'm a member if Jats4r ? working group, working on Jax xml which is the linqua franca of journal publishing. I am on the accessibility task force.
14:29:15 <sue-neu> I'm meeting with a physics based group that manages a server full of articles, highly visible, and will be talking with them about accessibility.
14:29:17 <sue-neu> He
14:29:38 <sue-neu> He's another good intervie candidate — what obsticles are you finding?
14:29:57 <sue-neu> The biggest obstacle with journal articles is that the writers just want PDFs
14:30:50 <sue-neu> Bill -I've got a slide that says "my journal readers want a PDF because that's what journal articles should look like"
14:31:36 <sue-neu> Charles: that brings up another use case, DSO offices, students are asking for PDFs of a single chapter. What we need to be able to do is split up content in smaller pieces
14:32:00 <sue-neu> ...there is probably a blind person who doesn't want a PDF
14:32:30 <sue-neu> Bill there are probably html entities that are just chapters? Is it possible to pull those out
14:33:09 <sue-neu> Charles if you had a server, you could send a link to the student that extracts only that chapter
14:33:39 <sue-neu> Paul: that sounds like a problem that can be solved with technology that exists today
14:34:18 <sue-neu> Charles what I keep hearing from DSO offices is that it is easy to take a chapter out of a PDF, but not an EPUB
14:35:23 <sue-neu> Typically when the DSO department gets a request from a student they ask for the PDF from the publisher
14:35:58 <sue-neu> Paul the DSO offices usually just ask for the raw data and they do the heavy lifting
14:36:38 <Paul_Belfanti> DSO = Disability Services Office
14:36:40 <sue-neu> Bill just extracting that html file might not be sufficient, there may be images and fonts, especially if diacriticals are required
14:37:20 <sue-neu> Charles to make it more broad, when extracting a chapter from an EPUB we would want the flexibility to make it a web page
14:37:30 <sue-neu> Students don't know how to deal with epubs
14:37:59 <sue-neu> Bill, they probably all have Kindles or Kobos but don't realize it started as an epub
14:38:17 <sue-neu> Charles: I will try to write up that use case today
14:38:34 <sue-neu> Paul, this was a good meeting
14:38:41 <Bill_Kasdorf> s/diacriticals/diacriticals or special scripts/
14:39:31 <sue-neu> Susan: I like this time, too
14:40:09 <CharlesL> rrsagent, make logs public
14:40:24 <CharlesL> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:40:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/02-pcg-ed-minutes.html CharlesL
14:41:42 <CharlesL> regrets+ Tzviya, Rick
14:41:45 <CharlesL> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:41:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/02-pcg-ed-minutes.html CharlesL
14:41:49 <sue-neu> s/a particular resource/a location within a particular resource/
14:42:03 <CharlesL> chair: Paul
14:42:07 <CharlesL> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:42:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/02-pcg-ed-minutes.html CharlesL
14:43:20 <CharlesL> trackbot, end meeting
14:43:56 <CharlesL> rrsagent, bye
14:43:56 <RRSAgent> I see no action items