09:54:28 RRSAgent has joined #wot-arch 09:54:28 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/10/27-wot-arch-irc 09:57:17 McCool has joined #wot-arch 09:58:44 meeting: WoT Architecture 09:58:58 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool 10:03:35 ktoumura has joined #wot-arch 10:03:36 sebastian has joined #wot-arch 10:03:58 present+ Michael_Lagally, Kunihiko_Toumura, Sebastian_Kaebisch 10:04:01 chair: Lagally 10:05:41 mlagally has joined #wot-arch 10:06:16 mlagally_ has joined #wot-arch 10:06:39 present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura 10:07:32 scribenick: kaz 10:08:10 q+ 10:09:24 topic: Agenda 10:09:26 ack k 10:09:44 kaz: would suggest we talk about three different topics separately 10:10:35 ... i.e., WoT Architecture, WoT Profile, and the next WG Charter 10:10:49 ... today, we should focus on the WoT Profile and the WoT Architecture 10:10:54 ml: ok 10:11:11 topic: Potential Invited Expert 10:11:29 ml: got an inquiry from an engineer 10:11:55 mm: please note the procedure for IE is different from the one for an invited guest for a meeting 10:12:00 q+ 10:12:37 kaz: please forward the information to team-wot 10:12:38 ack k 10:12:46 topic: Main call resolution 10:12:54 Mizushima has joined #wot-arch 10:13:48 ml: we made a resolution during the main call yesterday on Oct 26 10:13:49 [[ 10:13:50 Use the current Architecture CR draft as the basis of a CR to be finalized tomorrow Oct 27 in the Architecture TF call by merging those PRs currently on the table (PRs 865, 863, 862, 860, 858, 856 and 855) that have unanimous consensus and a call for resolution for CR transition will be made by email immediately after the meeting. If there are no objections within 24 hours of the email the Architecture draft will proceed with CR transition. 10:13:51 ]] 10:14:09 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima 10:14:38 q+ 10:14:44 q+ 10:15:06 ml: wondering about a possible smaller discussion with active participants 10:15:45 mm: we could have an additional Testfest around Dec 12 10:16:10 ... note we can't waste time 10:17:18 kaz: sorry but which spec are we talking about, WoT Architecture or WoT Profiles? 10:18:55 mm: Testfest would be useful for all the specs 10:19:08 kaz: however, it's just a possible method for acceleration 10:19:24 ... we should rather think about the CR/PR transitions for each spec as the milestones 10:19:52 ... so which to start with? 10:20:00 ml: let's start with the WoT Architecture 10:20:13 topic: WoT Architecture 10:20:51 -> https://w3c.github.io/spec-releases/milestones/ Milestone calculator 10:21:25 ml: CR around Dec 15 10:21:34 .. PR around Jan 31 10:21:59 mm: in that case, CR Transition Request to be made around Dec 8 10:22:50 ... think those dates are feasible 10:23:05 ml: ok 10:24:01 ... (updates the schedule MD with the proposed dates) 10:24:52 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/charters/wg-2021-extension-plan.md wg-2021-extension-plan.md 10:25:13 mm: WG resolution to be made earlier 10:25:23 q? 10:25:26 ack k 10:25:27 ack s 10:26:02 ml: getting better understanding about the schedule 10:26:10 present+ Ege_Korkan 10:26:34 i/milestones/subtopic: Schedule/ 10:26:37 q+ 10:27:04 kaz: have you added the WG resolution date to the schedule, Lagally? 10:27:09 ml: let me see 10:28:50 kaz: maybe also "Dec 8, 202" at the latest 10:29:29 subtopic: Remaining PRs 10:29:52 mm: the resolution during the main call was to see the remaining PRs 10:30:13 q? 10:30:15 ack k 10:30:24 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pulls remaining PRs 10:30:46 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/863 PR 863 - Update affiliation 10:30:58 sk: checked with Matthias Kovatch about this 10:31:14 ... would be better to keep his affiliation with Huawei 10:31:31 q+ 10:31:58 ack k 10:32:29 merged 10:33:07 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/865 PR 865 - Adding terminology "WoT Profile" 10:33:15 mm: added some comments 10:33:31 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/865#issuecomment-1293296840 McCool's comments 10:34:04 q+ 10:34:58 ml: another comment from Sebastian about the definition of "out-of-the-box" 10:35:21 q+ 10:35:44 mm: I'm OK with Sebastian's proposed definition for WoT Profile 10:36:13 q+ 10:36:27 sk: a subset of the Thing Description specification which provides additional set of restrictive assertions such that any Consumer which conforms with the those assertions is out-of-the-box interoperable with any Thing which also conforms with those assertions. 10:36:32 ack s 10:36:33 ack s 10:36:46 mm: may have additional assertions than the ones from TD 10:36:51 ack m 10:37:05 sk: TD doesn't say how to deal with the errors 10:37:09 Ege has joined #wot-arch 10:37:30 mm: not just around TD 10:37:34 q? 10:40:03 ack k 10:40:31 kaz: technically, the definition of "WoT Profiles" spec should be extracted from the Abstract section of the "WoT Profiles" spec itself 10:40:45 ... but if the description there is not enough, we need to regenerate some text 10:40:47 q+ 10:40:51 ... and I basically agree with McCool 10:40:56 ack e 10:41:10 ek: assertions around Consumer behaviors 10:41:18 q+ 10:42:36 ack k 10:43:15 kaz: do we really need to talk about the assertion level description for this PR 865 which is simply about the definition of "WoT Profiles" within a few lines? 10:43:18 mm: right 10:43:26 q? 10:43:41 q+ 10:44:05 ack k 10:44:28 ek: agree with the definition itself 10:44:52 sk: OK with the definition for "WoT Profiles" itself 10:45:13 ... should have another definition for "Out-of-box", though 10:45:18 (merged) 10:45:43 q+ 10:45:48 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/856 PR 856 - Additional terminology entry for Web Object 10:46:00 mm: I'm not really sure what "Web Object" here means 10:46:34 q+ 10:46:43 ml: (shoes Toumura-san's diagram) 10:46:59 -> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/w3c/wot-architecture/main/proposals/wot-arch-terms.drawio.svg Toumura-san's diagram on "Things and Consumers" 10:47:05 q? 10:47:08 ack e 10:47:17 ek: what is the difference with "Servient"? 10:47:27 ml: very different 10:47:41 ek: what about a Servient as a gateway? 10:47:44 q+ 10:48:22 q? 10:48:34 ml: Web Object is a broader entity 10:48:41 q+ 10:48:45 ack s 10:48:53 sk: I'm also a bit confused 10:49:06 ... why we call it "Web Object"? 10:49:44 ... which technology do you want to address using that? 10:50:33 q+ 10:51:22 +1 on kaz 10:51:31 +1 on kaz 10:51:34 kaz: I'm OK with adding this kind of new terminology if really needed 10:51:34 brb 10:51:50 ... but the terminology is not really used at all 10:52:24 ml: potentially would be used by the WoT Profiles spec 10:52:37 mm: what about the current situation? 10:52:41 ml: not used yet 10:52:48 ? 10:52:51 s/?// 10:52:57 q? 10:53:00 ack k 10:53:04 ack mc 10:53:06 q+ 10:53:23 s/brb// 10:54:17 q? 10:54:33 kaz: so would suggest we keep it open and see how to deal with the term by which specs 10:54:35 ack k 10:54:50 ek: maybe it would be better to say "WoT Object" 10:55:08 ... "Web Object" sounds too generic to me 10:55:13 ml: ok 10:55:26 (keep opend) 10:55:46 s/opend/opened/ 10:56:01 mm: also not a blocking issue for CR transition 10:56:28 kaz: so we should remove the label of "by CR transition" 10:56:30 q? 10:56:32 ack e 10:57:07 back 10:57:32 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/862 PR 862 - Switch Profile to non-normative section 10:57:57 sk: we have a WD for the WoT Profiles specification 10:58:08 ... should be aligned with the section 7 10:59:01 q+ 10:59:14 -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-architecture/862/efb4cf6...cb302d6.html#wot-profiles Preview - 7.3 Profiles 10:59:15 q? 10:59:17 ack e 10:59:18 q+ 10:59:45 ek: if that section is normative, we need to clarify the assertions from that section 11:00:04 q+ 11:00:54 ack k 11:02:01 kaz: to be clear, it's around section "7.3 Profiles" 11:02:43 ... and given the "WoT Profiles" specification is still a WD, we need to make the section "7.3 Profiles" of the WoT Architecture spec non-normative 11:02:53 subtopic: How to proceed 11:03:20 mm: we need to clarify how to proceed based on the resolution during the main call 11:04:11 ... we can send an email about the current situation to the whole WG 11:05:36 sk: what about PR 862 itself? 11:05:54 kaz: as I've already mentioned 5 mins ago, it should be merged 11:05:55 ml: ok 11:06:15 kaz: we can send an email about the situation to the whole WG based on today's discussion 11:06:30 ml: would like to summarize the situation for that purpose 11:15:08 proposal: Michael L sends an email to the WoT WG and IG with the following content: Following the resolution of the main call we discussed 3 of the PRs and resolved them. We did not get consensus on 862, 860, and would use the current version as CR candidate, unless we receive an objection within 24 hours.. 11:16:15 proposal: Michael L sends an email to the WoT WG and IG with the following content: Following the resolution of the main call we discussed 3 of the PRs and resolved them. We did not get consensus on 862, 860, 858 and 855. Implementing the resolution from the main call yesterday, we would use the current version as CR candidate, unless we receive an objection within 24 hours.. 11:17:16 proposal: Michael L sends an email to the WoT WG and IG with the following content: Following the resolution of the main call we discussed 7 of the PRs and resolved them. We did not get consensus on 862, 860, 858 and 855. Implementing the resolution from the main call yesterday, we would use the current version as CR candidate, unless we receive an objection within 24 hours.. 11:17:56 proposal: Michael L sends an email to the WoT WG and IG with the following content: Following the resolution of the main call we discussed 7 of the PRs and incorporated 3 of them. We did not get consensus on 862, 860, 858 and 855. Implementing the resolution from the main call yesterday, we would use the current version as CR candidate, unless we receive an objection within 24 hours.. 11:18:35 resolution: Michael L sends an email to the WoT WG and IG with the following content: Following the resolution of the main call we discussed 7 of the PRs and incorporated 3 of them. We did not get consensus on 862, 860, 858 and 855. Implementing the resolution from the main call yesterday, we would use the current version as CR candidate, unless we receive an objection within 24 hours.. 11:18:52 [adjourned] 11:18:58 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:18:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/27-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz 11:19:48 rrsagent, make log public 11:19:50 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:19:50 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/27-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz