13:39:38 RRSAgent has joined #wot-td 13:39:38 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-td-irc 13:57:31 meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF 13:57:38 present+ Kaz_Ashimura 13:58:14 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#October_26.2C_2022 14:00:29 rrsagent, make log public 14:00:33 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:00:33 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:01:21 chair: Sebastian/Ege 14:02:43 present+ Ege_Korkan, Jan_Romann 14:03:19 present+ Klaus_Hartke 14:05:48 present+ Michael_Koster 14:05:53 dape has joined #wot-td 14:05:58 present+ Daniel_Peintner 14:06:19 present+ Erich_Barnstedt 14:07:32 topic: Scribe 14:08:26 erichb has joined #wot-td 14:08:45 scribenick; erichb 14:09:13 sebastian_ has joined #wot-td 14:09:14 -> https://www.w3.org/2022/Talks/0322-tools-ka/ Kaz's slides on IRC, FYI 14:09:26 scribenick: Sebastian_Kaebisch 14:09:52 topic: Minutes 14:10:11 q+ 14:10:24 q- 14:10:31 -> https://www.w3.org/2022/10/19-wot-td-minutes.html Oct-19 14:10:56 ege: (goes through the minutes) 14:11:25 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima 14:11:32 present+ Michael_McCool 14:11:38 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:11:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:12:00 McCool_ has joined #wot-td 14:12:34 present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch 14:12:44 i/(goes through/scribenick: kaz/ 14:13:03 approved 14:13:23 topic: Binding 14:14:05 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:14:05 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:14:09 q+ 14:14:30 subtopic: PR 192 14:15:39 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/192 PR 192 - Aligning protocol binding template usage 14:15:54 Minutes were accepted 14:16:15 cris__ has joined #wot-td 14:16:42 q+ 14:16:52 s/Minutes were accepted// 14:17:15 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:17:15 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:18:26 mjk has joined #wot-td 14:18:39 q+ 14:19:22 ack k 14:24:08 Discussion on binding template description ongoing 14:27:30 Wording confusion regarding binding vs. binding template. 14:28:18 q+ 14:30:03 q+ 14:30:57 suggests to add a better description 14:32:20 suggests to have a separate meeting about it. 14:34:21 s//seb:/ 14:34:27 s//kaz:/ 14:34:34 ack k 14:34:37 ack s 14:37:06 brb 14:39:32 back 14:39:34 q? 14:39:39 s/suggests to have a separate meeting about it./would suggest we ask external WoT developers as well about their opinions if the current structure and description of the WoT Binding Templates Note is comprehensive enough. Maybe part of the discussion by the WoT CG and the WoT-JP CG./ 14:39:40 ack c 14:40:09 q+ 14:42:00 q+ 14:42:06 ack s 14:42:28 jkrhb__ has joined #wot-td 14:42:28 ack k 14:43:13 cris: Protocol Binding Templates are a way to describe protocols features in forms, they are not normative in how you use those terms. This is my understanding of the definition given by the group. 14:44:23 ... Profiles, among other goals, wants to further specialize the rules defined in Protocol Binding Templates with stricter mapping between wot operations and protocol keywords. 14:45:22 q+ 14:45:30 i/kaz:/kaz: This PR 192 includes too many changes at once. It would be better to have a smaller PRs, one for the main Binding Templates document, and the others for the sub documents./ 14:45:36 q? 14:45:40 ack mjk 14:46:15 s/wot ope/WoT ope/ 14:46:56 ack mjk 14:49:13 q+ 14:49:33 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:49:33 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:50:08 i/Discussion on binding/scribenick: erichb/ 14:50:22 i/This PR 192 includes/scribenick: kaz/ 14:50:34 i/would suggest we ask/scribenick: kaz/ 14:50:56 s/would suggest we ask/also would suggest/ 14:51:25 i/Protocol Binding Templates are a/scribenick: cris__/ 14:51:31 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:51:31 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:52:11 i/would suggest ex/scribenick: erichb/ 14:52:13 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:52:13 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:52:23 q? 14:53:40 ack k 14:54:20 s/brb// 14:54:22 s/back// 14:54:26 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:54:26 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:57:50 Agree with the idea that there needs to be a general binding template that includes the whole possible vocabulary, and either concrete templates that narrow this down to fixed choices or profiles that do the same. Additionally, more sophisticated clients can interpret options in the form, but we may not want all clients to have this capability. 14:58:05 s/Agree with/mjk: Agree with/ 14:58:09 i/Agree/scribenick: mjk/ 14:58:38 s/want all/want to require all 14:59:03 scribenick: kaz 14:59:29 (Klaus and Erich left) 14:59:51 q+ 14:59:52 ek: any objections about the definition within this PR 192? 14:59:57 ack s 15:00:23 sk: This clarifies the role of Binding Templates 15:00:34 ... but would be better to split the PR into smaller PRs 15:00:49 ... also as Kaz mentioned, getting feedback from the outside would be useful 15:01:24 ... our purpose is providing a nice guideline for developers 15:01:27 ek: ok 15:01:42 ... will do so in the future PRs 15:02:18 ... will ask Klaus as opinion as well later 15:03:14 merged 15:03:26 subtopic: Issue 143 15:03:48 s/subtopic: Issue 143// 15:04:29 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/143 comment added to Issue 143 - "Protocol Binding" vs. "Binding Template" 15:04:51 q? 15:05:06 subtopic: PR 182 15:05:15 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/182 PR 182 - Ontology links 15:05:43 ek: would remove the ontology link 15:06:06 s/ontology/CoAP ontology/ 15:07:07 ... also resolve the merge conflicts 15:07:22 (will be merged after the above modifications) 15:07:55 q+ 15:10:03 https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/159 15:10:20 i|Issue 159|subtopic: Issue 159| 15:10:25 s/https/-> https/ 15:10:48 s/159/159 Issue 159 - CoAP Content-Format vs. contentType/contentCoding 15:11:19 ek: related to the TD PR 1564 15:11:35 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1564 wot-thing-description PR 1564 - explain contentType usage 15:12:25 -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1564.html#sec-response-usage 5.3.4.2.2 Response-related Terms Usage 15:12:44 ek: (skims the table on "Single contentType") 15:13:05 ... would like to follow the approach here 15:13:33 q+ 15:13:59 jkrhb_ has joined #wot-td 15:14:17 ack k 15:14:34 kaz: we should think about how to refer to this information from the Binding Templates side 15:14:36 ek: agree 15:14:43 ca: this PR looks fine 15:15:07 ... but we should refer to this information from the Binding Templates 15:15:30 ack k 15:15:32 ack c 15:15:47 q+ 15:16:33 kaz: btw, this change would not impact implementations. Right? 15:16:57 ack c 15:17:00 q+ 15:17:32 ek: there is no normative assertions here 15:18:37 q+ 15:18:39 ek: right 15:19:05 kaz: from my viewpoint, this PR is very big and adds two big tables with one leading paragraph 15:19:34 ... so probably we need a bit more detailed review to see if there is no assertion to be extracted here 15:19:35 jkrhb_ has joined #wot-td 15:19:42 ack k 15:19:44 ack c 15:19:44 ack c 15:19:45 ack s 15:19:50 sk: agree with Kaz 15:19:57 ... should not add this big change now 15:20:16 ... to avoid potential confusions 15:20:38 ... that said, would suggest we add this kind of clarification itself 15:21:07 ... so let's revisit this later to add further improvement to the WoT Thing Description specification 15:21:39 ... anyway, we should not merge this PR now 15:22:10 ek: ok 15:22:22 topic: Thing Description 15:22:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:22:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 15:22:56 sk: the big news is that we made a resolution for CR transition during the main call 15:23:39 -> https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-minutes.html#r01 Resolution for CR Transition for TD 15:24:13 i/big news/subtopic: CR Transition/ 15:24:22 subtopic: Features at-risk 15:24:42 sk: (shows the SoTD section) 15:25:31 -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#sotd SoTD of the latest TD draft 15:25:39 [[ 15:25:49 Indicating location of security information in body of payload using JSON pointers. sec-body-name-json-pointer, sec-body-name-json-pointer-array, sec-body-name-json-pointer-creatable, and sec-body-name-json-pointer-type. 15:25:49 Indicating location of security information using URI template. td-security-in-query-over-uri and td-security-in-uri-variable. td-security-uri-variables-distinct. 15:25:49 Multilanguage content negotiation. td-ns-multilanguage-content-negotiation and td-ns-multilanguage-content-negotiation-no-multi. 15:25:50 TD Processor bidi isolation. td-processor-bidi-isolation. 15:25:51 TD Producer mixed direction scripts. td-producer-mixed-direction. 15:25:53 Text direction inferencing. td-text-direction-first-strong and td-text-direction-language-tag. 15:25:55 Support for OAuth2 client flow. td-security-oauth2-client-flow and td-security-oauth2-client-flow-no-auth. 15:25:57 Support for OAuth2 device flow. td-security-oauth2-device-flow. 15:25:59 Support for queryallactions operation. td-vocab-op--Form_queryallactions. 15:26:01 ]] 15:26:05 sk: features at-risk above 15:26:13 ... and most likely we would have another Testfest in December 15:26:25 subtopic: PR 1730 15:27:12 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1730 PR 1730 - Update Implementation Report and Prep for CR 15:27:29 mm: (explains the PR) 15:27:45 ... fixed the bugs in the Implementation Report 15:28:17 ... we still need to update the testimonials 15:28:42 ... also be careful about the categorization by code bases 15:29:18 q? 15:29:32 (merged) 15:30:07 subtopic: PR 1733 15:30:32 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1733 PR 1733 - Overview - all TD implementations 15:31:53 sk: need to continue to work on this 15:31:59 subtopic: PR 1732 15:32:19 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1732 PR 1732 - Minor follow-up syntax alignments/fixes 15:32:35 sk: would suggest we merge this 15:32:52 ... but will keep this now 15:32:55 subtopic: 1712 15:33:18 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1712 PR 1712 - Add table numbers and captions using new respec option 15:33:26 ek: need to dig into the script a bit more 15:33:47 sk: (adds a label of "by PR") 15:34:07 s/subtopic: 17/subtopic: PR 17/ 15:34:13 subtopic: PR 1684 15:34:33 ->https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1684 PR 1684 - Fix shacl, context and ontology 15:34:51 ca: have not got much feedback yet 15:35:10 ... why don't we revisit this next time? 15:35:18 sk: next week? 15:35:46 ... would talk about PR 1564 as well 15:36:08 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1564 PR 1564 - explain contentType usage 15:36:58 subtopic: PRs with "Defer to TD 2.0" label 15:37:10 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Defer+to+TD+2.0%22 PRs with "Defer to TD 2.0" label 15:37:17 sk: (quickly skim the list) 15:37:59 subtopic: Issues to be closed 15:38:11 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Defer+to+TD+2.0%22 Issues with "Propose closing" label 15:38:15 q+ 15:38:19 q+ 15:38:43 ack k 15:39:22 kaz: what about the issue on the dependency between TD and Binding? 15:39:32 sk: wanted to keep it open due to your comments 15:39:53 kaz: you can close the original issue and generate another editorial issue based on my comments 15:39:57 sk: ok 15:40:47 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1722 Issue 1722 - Normative assertion points to informative binding template note which is WIP 15:41:54 sk: (copies Kaz's comments within Issue 1722 to another new issue, and closes the original Issue 1722) 15:42:24 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1735 Issue 1735 - Minor editorial changes for PR 15:42:38 sk: what about the other remaining Issues? 15:43:37 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1702 Issue 1702 - Section 8.2: Contradicting and unprecise normative behavioral assertions 15:44:03 ek: design to be strict for the Consumers 15:44:19 ... the Consumers should follow the WoT Thing Description specification 15:44:34 mm: that means we're overlooking something 15:44:59 ... a Consumer is not necessarily a Thing 15:45:20 ... I'm fine with the current situation 15:46:15 (closed) 15:46:22 q+ 15:46:34 ack e 15:46:37 ack k 15:47:14 kaz: just to make sure, Sebastian, you should check with Lagally 15:47:21 mm: right 15:47:40 ... you should mention @mlagally there so that he can reopen the issue if needed 15:47:46 sk: (mentions @mlagally) 15:47:51 jkrhb__ has joined #wot-td 15:48:21 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1674 Issue 1674 - Mention that protocol bindings can also be defined in profiles 15:48:45 q+ 15:49:43 ack k 15:50:48 kaz: maybe we can close this Issue itself, but this implies there are some descriptions on "Protocol Bindings" withing (1) WoT Architecture 1.1, (2) WoT Thing Description 1.1 and (3) WoT Binding Templates 15:51:07 ... we should see the relationship among those descriptions to make sure 15:51:16 sk: yes, so let's keep this open 15:51:43 ... and revisit it again during the Architecture call tomorrow on Oct 27 15:52:19 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1617 Issue 1617 - [OracleReview] 6.3.4 securityDefinitions and security 15:52:43 sk: there is no normative assertions now 15:52:53 s/there is/there are/ 15:52:57 (closed) 15:53:29 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1613 Issue 1613 - [OracleReview] 5.3.3.1 SecurityScheme 15:55:14 mm: There were two assertions 15:55:26 s/assertions/assertions there/ 15:56:33 (closed) 15:57:06 q? 15:57:24 kaz: to make sure, who raised this issue? 15:57:51 ek: Lagally raised a big issue including this 15:58:47 kaz: in that case, we should ask Lagally about if it's OK to make sure 15:59:33 s/sure/sure, though I'm OK with closing those Issues with "[OracleReview]" title./ 16:00:04 sk: (mentions @mlagally within the Issue so that Lagally can reopen it if needed) 16:02:13 subtopic: Next steps for CR transition 16:02:24 sk: how to proceed with CR transition? 16:02:44 kaz: as you did for TD 1.0, you need to submit an Issue for the transition repo 16:02:51 -> https://www.w3.org/Guide/transitions?profile=CR&cr=new Transition guideline 16:03:30 McCool has joined #wot-td 16:06:35 kaz: make sure it would be better to provide the URL of the static HTMl version 16:06:39 [adjourned] 16:06:43 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:06:43 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 16:09:03 i|make sure|-> https://github.com/w3c/transitions transitions repo| 16:13:18 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:13:18 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 18:23:37 Zakim has left #wot-td