IRC log of wot-profile on 2022-10-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

10:59:22 [RRSAgent]

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10:59:22 [RRSAgent]

logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-profile-irc

10:59:27 [kaz]

meeting: WoT Profile

11:01:12 [kaz]

present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Michael_Lagally

11:01:16 [kaz]

chair: Lagally

11:02:04 [mlagally]

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11:02:40 [Mizushima]

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11:03:24 [Ege]

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11:03:31 [kaz]

present+ Ege_Korkan

11:05:09 [sebastian]

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11:06:48 [kaz]

present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch, Tomoaki_Mizushima

11:07:15 [Ege]

scribenick: Ege

11:07:38 [sebastian]

+1

11:08:38 [Ege]

mm: I would focus on urgent topics

11:08:45 [Ege]

sk: I agree with michael mccool

11:08:52 [kaz]

q|

11:08:54 [kaz]

q+

11:08:58 [kaz]

s/q|//

11:09:02 [Ege]

mm: we have 3-4 PRs to handle

11:10:12 [Ege]

kaz: I would prefer to talk about the updating the schedule of the arch specification first

11:10:27 [kaz]

q+

11:10:30 [sebastian]

https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/charters/wg-2021-extension-plan.md

11:10:38 [kaz]

i/I would focus/topic: Agenda/

11:10:40 [Ege]

mm: For the interest of time, we can skip the minutes today

11:10:52 [Ege]

ml: I would prefer to do the review since they will be published

11:11:34 [Ege]

kaz: regarding the main call agenda, we should create a resolution for the profile work regarding the reverting of the previous resolution

11:12:30 [Ege]

topic: Minutes Review

11:12:50 [kaz]

s/regarding the main call agenda/regarding the WoT Profile topic itself/

11:13:31 [Ege]

ml: anything to be changed?

11:13:53 [Ege]

ml: we can publish

11:14:04 [Ege]

subtopic: Minutes of 20.10.2022

11:14:31 [kaz]

q=

11:14:33 [kaz]

q+

11:15:10 [kaz]

s/q=//

11:15:17 [Ege]

kaz: The minutes are not about the profile, we can review them tomorrow

11:15:25 [Ege]

ml: true, we can do it tomorrow

11:15:40 [Ege]

topic: Profile Contributions and Issues

11:15:58 [Ege]

ml: no new issues except one and one new pr

11:16:10 [kaz]

s/a resolution for the profile work regarding the reverting of the previous resolution/a clear resolution about the WoT Profile work during the main call today, because we want to revert the previous resolution./

11:17:34 [kaz]

s/I would prefer to talk about the updating the schedule of the arch specification first/If we want to use this "WoT Profile" call for the discussion on "WoT Architecture", we once need to see the updated schedule for the WoT Architecture spec first, and then make a resolution for reusing this slot for the Architecture discussion./

11:17:38 [Ege]

sk: now there are 3 profile implementations

11:17:44 [kaz]

present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura

11:17:51 [Ege]

ml: now the topic about going for REC

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11:18:04 [kaz]

rrsagent, make log public

11:18:07 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

11:18:09 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz

11:18:17 [Ege]

mm: We can change the proposal to say 3 weeks now

11:18:32 [Ege]

ml: we should mainly do architecture topics

11:19:48 [mlagally]

proposal: The main focus of the architecture TF for the next 1-2 weeks is to achieve CR status of the architecture spec, so the profile call slots are temporarily primarily used for architecture. To ensure rapid progress of the Profile specification, the Profile work continues asynchronously on github / email, with on-demand discussion in the architecture calls, in case of any blocking issue.

11:20:07 [kaz]

q+

11:20:44 [Ege]

ka: I am ok with the proposal but we should look at the schedule to see if we can make it for CR transition if we use this profile slot for architecture

11:20:53 [kaz]

s/ka:/kaz:/

11:20:54 [Ege]

mm: we need cr resolution this week

11:21:21 [Ege]

mm: today basically

11:21:32 [Ege]

ml: what is the alternative?

11:21:48 [kaz]

i/anything to be changed/subtopic: Minutes of 19.10.2022/

11:22:28 [Ege]

mm: there is a chance that we cannot get the extension, my AC rep would not support it

11:22:33 [kaz]

i|anything to be changed|-> https://www.w3.org/2022/10/19-wot-profile-minutes.html Oct-19|

11:22:42 [Ege]

ml: what would that mean?

11:22:52 [Ege]

mm: we cannot carry over CR to a next charter

11:23:11 [Ege]

mm: we have some slack at the end of january but we need that to take into change requests into account

11:23:25 [Ege]

ml: in the worst case, we end up with another WD

11:23:48 [Ege]

mm: no it would be a complete failure of the WG if that happens

11:23:53 [sebastian]

q+

11:23:55 [Ege]

mm: we need to get these out of the door

11:24:01 [Ege]

q?

11:24:03 [Ege]

ack k

11:24:08 [sebastian]

ack s

11:24:21 [mlagally]

proposal: The main focus of the architecture TF for the next 1-2 weeks is to achieve CR status of the architecture spec, so the profile call slots are temporarily primarily used for architecture. To ensure rapid progress of the Profile specification, the Profile work continues asynchronously on github / email, with on-demand discussion in the architecture calls, in case of any blocking issue.

11:24:33 [kaz]

s/I am ok with the proposal but we should look at the schedule to see if we can make it for CR transition if we use this profile slot for architecture/I'm OK with the proposal above itself, but we should quickly skim the updated publication schedule to see if it's really feasible for us to finalize the WoT Architecture spec if we use this WoT Profile call for the discussion on WoT Architecture, e.g., for 4 times./

11:24:43 [mlagally]

resolution: The main focus of the architecture TF for the next 1-2 weeks is to achieve CR status of the architecture spec, so the profile call slots are temporarily primarily used for architecture. To ensure rapid progress of the Profile specification, the Profile work continues asynchronously on github / email, with on-demand discussion in the architecture calls, in case of any blocking issue.

11:24:54 [kaz]

q?

11:25:19 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

11:25:19 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz

11:25:41 [Ege]

topic: Issues

11:25:58 [kaz]

i|we need cr|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/charters/wg-2021-extension-plan.md updated publication schedule|

11:25:58 [Ege]

ml: here are the ones to close

11:26:34 [Ege]

ml: there are none with close or defer label, none with close next week

11:27:01 [Ege]

ml: we have some housekeeping issues

11:27:18 [kaz]

q?

11:28:09 [kaz]

s/Profile Contributions and Issues/WoT Profile discussion/

11:28:21 [Ege]

ml: we have an issue about logilab+siemens tdd

11:28:26 [kaz]

s/topic: Issues/topic: WoT Architecture discussion/

11:28:35 [Ege]

ek: Michael McCool should move the events folder input to the data inputs

11:28:42 [kaz]

s/here are the/subtopic: Issues/

11:28:45 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

11:28:45 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz

11:29:02 [Ege]

subtopic: issue 864

11:29:20 [Ege]

mm: we can turn it into an informative statement

11:29:46 [Ege]

mm: if we get implementations, we can add an informative explanation

11:29:50 [kaz]

s/subtopic: Issues/here are the/

11:30:08 [kaz]

i|ones to close|subtopic: Issues|

11:30:10 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

11:30:10 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz

11:30:33 [Ege]

topic: PR 858

11:30:44 [Ege]

ml: this is about the implementation report

11:30:49 [Ege]

ml: do we have a rendered version

11:31:14 [kaz]

i|we can turn|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/864 Issue 864 - arch-security-consideration-avoid-direct unclear|

11:31:41 [Ege]

mm: we have 15 implementation descriptions

11:31:49 [kaz]

i|this is about|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/858 PR 858 - Prep for CR, finalize IR and document at-risk items|

11:31:52 [Ege]

q+

11:32:14 [Ege]

mm: I have added a statement about using older inputs

11:32:34 [kaz]

i|this is about|-> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/mmccool/wot-architecture/pull/858.html Preview of the spec|

11:32:37 [Ege]

mm: we have decided months ago to use old inputs for compatability testing

11:32:51 [kaz]

i|this is about|-> https://cdn.statically.io/gh/w3c/wot-architecture/a1aecbf83fcd5a20e8e06c226edf454f90ecf729/testing/report11.html Draft Implementation Report|

11:33:22 [Ege]

ml: This makes sense for TD but not for arch

11:33:27 [Ege]

mm: I can remove it, no problem

11:37:35 [Ege]

ml: about the contributor list

11:37:50 [kaz]

q+

11:38:01 [Ege]

mm: these are just implementation descriptions

11:38:39 [Ege]

ml: we have information about the contributing member in 80% of them, would be nice to have in all

11:38:50 [Ege]

ack e

11:39:02 [dape]

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11:39:09 [Ege]

ml: do you know who did the echonet implementation?

11:39:14 [Ege]

kaz: we can check it offline

11:40:45 [kaz]

s/it offline/the details offline later/

11:41:09 [Ege]

mm: we can update it as soon as I have the information

11:41:17 [kaz]

ack k

11:41:45 [sebastian]

q+

11:43:06 [Ege]

ml: we need to show that enough companies are implementing it

11:44:15 [kaz]

q+

11:44:19 [kaz]

ack s

11:44:41 [Ege]

mm: for details, I would not ask implementers to say the usefullness of each feature, which are more than 400 in the TD

11:44:57 [Ege]

sk: siemens has multiple implementations with different developer teams

11:46:53 [kaz]

ack k

11:46:58 [Ege]

kaz: the report does not have to be perfect at this transition

11:47:05 [Ege]

ml: has the report change since last time

11:47:20 [Ege]

mm: Not much, two assertions that are not about privacy and security are at risk

11:47:40 [kaz]

s/the report does not have to be perfect at this transition/please remember that what is required for the CR stage is getting sufficient implementations based on the draft Implementation Report./

11:48:53 [Ege]

mm: In case some assertions are not implemented, we can follow the instructions in the document

11:48:54 [kaz]

s/draft Implementation Report./draft Implementation. So the Implementation Report doesn't have to be perfect at this stage. The more important is clarifying the "features at-risk" so that we clearly state them within the SoTD section of the CR draft./

11:49:22 [Ege]

mm: there are PRs that can change the text, I will adapt my tool. If they are not critical, I think we can defer them to the CR period

11:51:06 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/855 PR 855 - Clarify interaction affordance binding mechanisms

11:51:18 [kaz]

-> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/855.html Preview

11:51:29 [Ege]

subtopic: PR about adding profile to protocol bindings

11:52:30 [Ege]

q+

11:52:34 [kaz]

s/subtopic: PR about adding profile to protocol bindings//

11:52:37 [Ege]

ml: anyone have concerns

11:52:44 [kaz]

i|there are|subtopic: PR 855|

11:53:03 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

11:53:03 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz

11:54:32 [McCool_]

q+

11:54:34 [McCool_]

q?

11:55:16 [sebastian]

https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/860

11:55:52 [dape]

q+

11:56:12 [kaz]

q+

11:56:14 [kaz]

ack ege

11:56:16 [kaz]

ack mc

11:56:38 [Ege]

ek: allowing protocol bindings to happen via profiles is breaking the design

11:56:48 [Ege]

... it is not clear what a profile can be

11:57:22 [Ege]

mm: I have a proposal in one of the profile

11:58:30 [McCool_]

q+

11:59:22 [Ege]

dp: I want to mention Sebastian's contribution, just saying that it is a set of assertions is too open

11:59:30 [kaz]

ack d

11:59:39 [dape]

ack dape

11:59:43 [kaz]

ack mc

12:00:26 [Ege]

ml: I have a PR to add a definition

12:00:33 [Ege]

ml: also, a Thing is always with a TD

12:01:07 [kaz]

ack k

12:01:17 [kaz]

kaz: @@@

12:02:05 [kaz]

s/@@@/We have to clarify whether we need to add (normative) changes to the specification text or not before moving the main call./

12:02:23 [Ege]

kaz: can we finish the PRs in tomorrow?

12:02:29 [Ege]

sk: if we focus on these, yes

12:02:45 [dape]

q?

12:02:47 [Ege]

ml: let's do it asynchronously

12:03:03 [kaz]

s/main call./main call. If we need to, unfortunately, we once postpone the CR transition resolution for Architecture today, and should continue the discussion during the Architecture call tomorrow./

12:04:56 [kaz]

s/tomorrow./tomorrow. After the finalization during the Architecture call tomorrow, we can make another resolution by email, etc., if needed./

12:04:58 [kaz]

[adjourned]

12:05:07 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

12:05:07 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz

14:00:02 [Mizushima]

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