11:04:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-profile
11:04:12 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/10/12-wot-profile-irc
11:04:18 <kaz> meeting: WoT Profile
11:04:38 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Lagally, Ege_Korkan, Michael_McCool, Sebastian_Kaebisch
11:04:44 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot-profile
11:04:49 <kaz> chair: Lagally
11:05:41 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-profile
11:05:49 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Architecture_WebConf#Architecture_Oct_12th.2C_2022
11:06:57 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot-profile
11:07:34 <sebastian> topic: minutes
11:07:53 <kaz> scribenick: sebastian
11:08:24 <sebastian> -> https://www.w3.org/2022/09/28-wot-profile-minutes.html
11:08:33 <sebastian> any objections?
11:09:04 <sebastian> Ege: no clear names so far
11:09:10 <sebastian> Kaz: done
11:09:51 <sebastian> approved
11:10:02 <sebastian> topic: Plugfest results
11:10:25 <sebastian> ML: there where two implementations running
11:10:53 <sebastian> .. there were some problems
11:10:55 <Ege> q+
11:11:21 <sebastian> ... using Postman to interact with the server works well
11:11:39 <sebastian> ... however, this was not a full test
11:12:45 <sebastian> <ML shows the implementation report; only available local>
11:13:56 <McCool> q+
11:13:56 <sebastian> Ege: Postman is not a real consumer implementation. Was there a real Consumer implementation?
11:13:59 <McCool> q?
11:14:21 <McCool> q?
11:14:52 <Ege> ack
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11:14:55 <Ege> ack e
11:14:59 <kaz> q+ McCool
11:15:00 <sebastian> ML: question what is understood by a Consumer implementation? WebUI? In that context I would say that we have it.
11:15:24 <sebastian> Ege: I would object this since a consumer should parse and interpret TDs
11:15:50 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
11:15:51 <kaz> rragent, draft minutes
11:16:22 <sebastian> MM: We should clearify the requirements.
11:17:00 <McCool> s/clearify/clarify/
11:17:16 <sebastian> <ML shows some assertations that can be seen as consumer requirements>
11:18:01 <sebastian> ML: 2 companies provided manuel assertions results
11:18:33 <sebastian> ... SSE is only implmented by Ben
11:18:42 <sebastian> ... WebHooks only by Oracle
11:19:07 <McCool> q+
11:19:33 <sebastian> ML: A problem which I have identified is that the payload structure is not well defined.
11:20:10 <sebastian> MM: Is it only a Profile issue or a TD issue?
11:20:10 <Ege> q+
11:20:21 <sebastian> ML: Profile only specify that
11:23:05 <sebastian> ML: Last week we discussed if existing implementations already Profile compliant
11:23:57 <McCool> q+
11:23:59 <sebastian> ... we stop this since some implementations are not compliant
11:24:32 <kaz> ack mc
11:24:42 <sebastian> ML: can implementer go over the manual assertions to check if they have implented the features?
11:25:31 <kaz> q+
11:25:49 <sebastian> MM: Async actions should be defined as at-risk
11:26:39 <sebastian> ML: I mentioned last week that Profile is not mature enough for go REC. We need 1-2 month more
11:27:28 <sebastian> MM: ok
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11:27:57 <dape> q+
11:28:29 <sebastian> <ML setup a new issue about payload format>
11:28:50 <sebastian> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/302
11:29:05 <kaz> ack e
11:29:07 <sebastian> Ege: I do not understand the problem
11:30:09 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
11:30:17 <sebastian> ML: how to define and pass properties, or how to write and read them
11:30:38 <mlagally> q?
11:30:40 <sebastian> Ege: I think, this is well defined in TD spec. I think you asking about static message wrapper
11:30:53 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
11:30:57 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:30:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/12-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
11:31:21 <sebastian> Ege: In TD playground you can create a OpenAPI document and pass it to Postman
11:31:22 <McCool> q+
11:31:56 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner, Tomoaki_Mizushima
11:32:51 <sebastian> Ege: A consumer should parse TDs and interact what is defined in there
11:33:37 <McCool> q?
11:34:03 <sebastian> ML: I do not think we need a generic consumer implementation, its not a requirement
11:34:34 <sebastian> Ege: if we not show this than we have not the benefit of the Profile anymore
11:35:00 <Ege> q+
11:35:28 <kaz> ack k
11:36:21 <kaz> q?
11:36:30 <sebastian> Kaz: We need to clearify policy and what should be tested.
11:36:47 <sebastian> ML: Agree
11:37:35 <kaz> s/We need/Some of the unimplemented assertions were covered by the other specs like TD, so we should consider how to reuse them. Also we need/
11:38:15 <sebastian> MM: In main call I would do resolution that the Profile should be defered to the new Charter.
11:38:58 <Ege> q+
11:39:00 <Ege> q++
11:39:03 <Ege> qq+
11:39:13 <Ege> ack +
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11:39:49 <sebastian> MM: Playground and Postman should be considered as consumer. However, we should write up policy about this
11:40:15 <sebastian> ... next charter, I like to improve our testing
11:41:07 <sebastian> ML: I'm ok to postpone Profile, however, we should not stop working on this.
11:42:00 <sebastian> MM: we can pause until PRs are publised
11:43:01 <sebastian> ML: can we continue to work in draft status in this charter?
11:43:01 <Ege> qq+
11:43:23 <sebastian> Kaz: I need to check with PHL.
11:44:08 <sebastian> MM: Suggest to run it as IG activity
11:44:34 <sebastian> Kaz: We do not need to transform it.
11:45:06 <kaz> q+
11:45:13 <kaz> q-
11:45:15 <kaz> qq+
11:45:58 <sebastian> MM: Lets not switch the group. Should not complicated thing. Simple continue in new charter and publish asap.
11:46:15 <sebastian> s/thing/things
11:46:50 <sebastian> Kaz: we should clearify first what should be archieved and what is needed
11:47:11 <McCool> q?
11:47:59 <McCool> ack k
11:47:59 <Zakim> kaz, you wanted to react to +
11:48:03 <McCool> ack e
11:48:10 <McCool> ack Ege
11:48:11 <Zakim> Ege, you wanted to react to +
11:48:15 <sebastian> ML: I don't want open new additional requirements and I don't want to start a new loop
11:48:20 <McCool> ack Ege
11:48:21 <Zakim> Ege, you wanted to react to kaz
11:49:04 <sebastian> ML: Lets simple publish Profile as draft in this charter and as REC in new charter
11:50:12 <kaz> s/we should clearify first what should be archieved and what is needed/if we as the WoT WG as a whole would like to hold on and stop the spec work for WoT Profile, that's possible. However, we should clarify what wanted to achieve by the Profile specification as the basis of the next WG Charter discussion./
11:50:22 <kaz> q?
11:50:27 <kaz> q+
11:50:52 <sebastian> Ege: Using Postman not work in many cases such as for async actions since this needs interactions of the consumer
11:51:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:51:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/12-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
11:51:14 <sebastian> ML: we should postpone this discussion
11:52:30 <kaz> s/Lets/Let's/
11:53:00 <sebastian> DP: I provide manuel csv file but it seems the wrong place. Hard for implementer to provide manuel csv in the right place
11:53:16 <kaz> s/transform it./transfer the work to the IG just to make it a group Note./
11:53:22 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:53:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/12-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
11:53:50 <sebastian> ... Profile is also not reflected by the Scriptiong API
11:54:05 <kaz> s/Lets/Let's/
11:54:07 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:54:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/12-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
11:54:26 <kaz> s/simple pub/simply publish/
11:54:37 <kaz> s/publishlish/publish/
11:54:39 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:54:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/12-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
11:54:59 <sebastian> MM: I try to clean-up testreport
11:55:08 <kaz> s/PHL/PLH/
11:55:29 <kaz> q?
11:55:32 <kaz> ack d
11:55:41 <kaz> ack mc
11:55:43 <mlagally> proposal_ publish an updated WD by the end of the current WG charter. Carryo over the profile goals and deliverables to the next WG charter. Deliver the Profile early in the next WG charter period with the current scope and requirements.
11:55:57 <kaz> s/proposal_/proposal:/
11:56:10 <kaz> s/Carryo/Carry/
11:58:01 <kaz> q?
11:58:10 <kaz> ack e
11:58:23 <sebastian> ML: objections?
11:58:52 <sebastian> Kaz: Proposal looks ok. We should clearifiy what is the plan for next Charter.
11:58:55 <Mizushima> q+
11:58:58 <kaz> ack k
11:59:12 <kaz> s/ok. We/OK but we/
11:59:33 <sebastian> Mizushima: ok with the proposal
11:59:46 <mlagally> resolution: publish an updated WD by the end of the current WG charter. Carry over the profile goals and deliverables to the next WG charter. Deliver the Profile early in the next WG charter period with the current scope and requirements.
11:59:59 <sebastian> ... but Im confused about the scope for next charter.
12:00:10 <sebastian> ML: lets discuss this in the main call
12:00:18 <sebastian> adjourn
12:01:21 <kaz> s/what is the plan for next Charter./what we want to do for Profile during the next Charter period within the Charter document even clearer./
12:01:27 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:01:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/12-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:01:56 <kaz> s/I provide/I provided/
12:01:57 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:01:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/12-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:02:21 <kaz> s/lets/let's/
12:02:23 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:02:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/12-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
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