13:05:01 RRSAgent has joined #pcg-ed 13:05:01 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/10/05-pcg-ed-irc 13:05:21 gautier has joined #pcg-ed 13:05:27 CharlesL has joined #pcg-ed 13:06:01 scribenick: sue-neu 13:06:05 present+ 13:06:10 present+ 13:06:13 present+ 13:06:25 present+ 13:06:56 rickj has joined #pcg-ed 13:07:01 present+ 13:07:34 Charles: explains to Susan how to scribe... 13:08:17 Review wording of Ed TF purpose statement, adjust and finalize 13:08:26 Paul: first order to review wording of Ed TF purpose statement 13:08:52 topic: Review wording of Ed TF purpose statement, adjust and finalize 13:08:57 Paul: This is the basic verbiage around the purpose statements, do we need any adjustments… 13:09:10 Google doc was posted for comments… 13:09:26 …we can finalize the doc and move on 13:09:28 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pvydL4nuZ2IZQFhbsxWZAlFyo6sBu14si3o0OAI34IY/edit 13:10:43 Rick: Perhaps we need to narrow the focus of the first phrase to be format specific 13:11:02 Paul: The initial phrase is simple 13:11:20 Rick: What if people outside the group misunderstand our scope? 13:11:36 Paul: What about this phrase is vague our out of scope?… 13:12:00 Paul: we may have opportunities to narrow the scope as we move forward 13:12:36 Bill: We want to encourage a broader view, most of the publishers I talk to are most interested in subjects outside of the publishing activity… 13:12:50 including accessibility, ? 13:13:38 Bill: web content is getting more webby all the time with publishers putting more content on line. I like the open quality of the statement 13:13:54 q+ 13:14:04 Paul: There's nothing wrong with us passing along anything we discover to another wg like the css group 13:15:00 q+ 13:15:04 Bill: Something may come up that needs to be addressed, that is already being addressed elsewhere on the web. That may be part of what Rick is getting at. 13:15:51 Paul: I hope/expect we will find people looking for things that already to exist, and we can point them to it… 13:16:48 Wolfgang: "K-12" is typically American, and needs explanation to be country or continent neutral 13:17:15 q+ 13:17:37 Wolfgang: suggests "kindergarten" and "primary" and "secondary" though it is difficult to get precise terms since education systems are different among countries 13:18:02 Paul invites Wolfgang to edit this phrase 13:18:36 Charles: I would like to state that we are keeping accessibility in mind 13:18:55 Paul invites Charles to add that verbiage 13:19:33 Rick: I advocate against segmenting markets such as K 12, there are huge markets in Secondary and business learning 13:20:12 +1 to Rick 13:20:22 Paul: we can expand scope, though we don't want to make the scope too broad. Continuing ed, certification, are important aspects 13:20:37 Rick: We can define our scope with the use cases 13:21:17 Rick: K12 is different from higher ed, rather than list out all markets here, identify where we are starting rather than keep a comprehensive list 13:21:34 Paul: How do we capture that from a documentation standpoint? 13:21:53 Rick: the second paragraph actually captures that 13:22:44 Bill: The use case format starts with "I am an X" and I want to do "XYZ" The use cases should be specific 13:23:25 Rick: If the use case presents something not in the purpose statement, do we need to edit the purpose statement? 13:24:08 Rick: Scope would be educators, etc., but not the markets. The markets are not nee3ded 13:24:19 Bill: it is not needed 13:24:48 Paul: Do we not need the user profiles? 13:24:58 q? 13:25:02 ack wolfgang 13:25:03 Rick: I think those come up in the use cases 13:25:06 ack me 13:25:25 q+ 13:25:27 ack rickj 13:25:35 Wolfgang: It would be helpful to have an overview, perhaps more refined than we have at the moment 13:26:21 Wolfgang: as a publisher, the more specifc the better, maybe drill down in the categories we have 13:26:41 Paul: This grew out of our desire to not be too narrow with our use cases 13:27:18 Paul: suggests adding ",included but not limted to, the following" after user profiles 13:27:54 correction: Bill: suggests adding "including but not limited to, the following" 13:28:11 s/limted/limited/ 13:28:31 Paul: we don't want to limit ourselves to the usual suspects 13:29:07 q? 13:29:17 ack Bill_Kasdorf 13:30:18 Paul: we don't need to document the process extensively but we should have a conversation about general scope and have a conversation about the sample use case 13:30:41 Paul: we can mirror that in a template 13:30:58 Paul: do we need a cover letter? 13:31:29 Bill: It could be an option to have a cover letter. I can make calls, but not everyone is the same. 13:31:44 q? 13:31:52 q+ 13:32:13 ack gautier 13:33:10 title: Use Cases 13:33:14 Sample Use Case 13:33:17 https://docs.google.com/document/d/16HOSP-WzZdbfwMx7MA9-7QyP9Dm0JCtFxBa_gizGJcE/edit 13:33:28 Gautier: I more or less translated the text we just discussed and will cirulate it in French publishing contexts, and he will make the use case for them. This can make for more participation if it is in French … 13:34:00 s/cirulate/circulate/ 13:34:28 q? 13:34:30 I have tried to write one using the template, making a lot of paraphrases to fit into the template as it is. 13:35:00 Gautier: The template is complicated, I feel like it is repetitive 13:35:57 Gautier: maybe my use case is too simple 13:35:57 q+ 13:36:51 Paul: there will be a learning curve for all of us who are new to use cases and we don't have to be slaves to the format. The important thing is to get the information in there. No need to repeat yourself. 13:37:15 Charles: walks us through the document… 13:38:11 Charles: the main points include the title, the ## is the mark up so it will stand out in github. Write the details as prose… 13:39:07 Charles: make a proposal, after that we have any benefits based on the proposal above… 13:39:22 https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/45 13:39:39 Charles: some user stories may have less, you don't have to have everything… 13:40:16 Paul: on github the mark down will make the use case clearer, and people will be able to comment 13:40:22 ack Bill_Kasdorf 13:41:07 Bill: This provides a full picture of the situation. A contrasting approach, the use case only focuses on the problem and doesn't propose a solution… 13:41:38 Bill: Perhpas we should end at the use case 13:41:57 Charles: I agree, and not every use case needs a solution 13:42:31 Paul: when we are working with people building the use cases not everyone will have the technical depth to offer a solution… 13:42:47 I will update my user store accordingly 13:42:55 s/end at the use case or put subheads in: Problem (what the issue is); Proposed solution (the details) 13:42:56 Paul: sounds like everyone is generally comfortable with the use case format 13:43:45 https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues 13:43:45 s/end at the use case/ end at the use case or put subheads in: Problem (what the issue is); Proposed solution (the details) 13:43:48 Paul: I'll make a version of this for people who don't want to use github when working through this 13:44:43 q+ 13:44:53 ack sue-neu 13:46:44 Susan: suggests using a release or other statement that makes clear the intent of the information being gathered, how information will be stored/used as we do interviews 13:47:09 Paul: no personal information is included in the use case, we may not need people to sign a document… 13:48:07 Paul: it is a fair point to make sure people understand what we are doing with this. The third paragraph states this, is that enough? It might depend who you are talking to 13:48:13 q+ 13:48:43 James: We should at least state that eveything will be anonymised 13:49:07 s/eveything/everything/ 13:49:31 Bill: Someone may be working on an idea that would be a competitive advantage, and they may not want to share 13:49:34 ack Bill_Kasdorf 13:50:21 Paul: Susan can you paraphrase something short with key concepts: it will be anonymous, no information will be shared 13:51:13 Charles: we will take out any names that we come across and focus on the issue, maybe just general information but nothing that could be used to identify a student 13:51:59 @wolfgang can I correct my spelling? Not having any luck 13:53:03 Paul: this has been a successful meeting, our next meeting will be looking at the use cases that come in 13:53:16 Paul: thanks everyone! See you in a few weeks 13:54:26 s/eveything/everything 13:54:36 rrsagent, make logs public 13:54:55 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:54:56 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/05-pcg-ed-minutes.html CharlesL 13:56:17 rrsagent, make logs public 13:58:42 s/cirulate/circulate/ 14:00:52 topic: Charles Gives tips for Scribing 14:01:05 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:01:05 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/05-pcg-ed-minutes.html CharlesL 14:02:13 s/title:/topic: 14:02:20 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:02:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/05-pcg-ed-minutes.html CharlesL 14:03:14 Charles: use s/misspeling/misspelling to correct, rssagent, draft minutes to draft the minutes (can be done multiple times) 14:05:29 you can add a topic with a hook, and put it into the minutes at the point of the hook 14:05:57 Charles: Paul you can send out the minutes using the URL 14:06:33 Paul: we may need to revisit distribution to be sure everyone gets the meeting info I will send the zoom link via email as well 14:06:36 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:06:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/05-pcg-ed-minutes.html sue-neu 14:07:19 CharlesL has left #pcg-ed 14:12:44 QUIT 16:04:09 Zakim has left #pcg-ed