17:48:12 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 17:48:12 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/10/04-aria-apg-irc 17:48:26 Zakim has joined #aria-apg 17:49:00 MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force 17:50:12 rrsagent, make log public 17:50:20 present+ 17:52:19 rrsagent, make minutes 17:52:19 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/04-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King 17:53:54 Jem has joined #aria-apg 17:54:26 rrsagent, make minutes 17:54:26 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/04-aria-apg-minutes.html Jem 17:54:32 present+ Jemma 18:05:40 present+ helen Zhou 18:05:45 present+ Seth 18:05:53 present+ Alex 18:06:34 CurtBellew has joined #aria-apg 18:06:43 MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria-apg 18:07:08 Topic: Introduction of new member, Helen Zhou 18:08:42 🎉🎉🎉 18:09:38 scribe+ 18:09:44 present+ 18:10:12 RRSAgent, make minutes 18:10:12 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/04-aria-apg-minutes.html MarkMcCarthy 18:11:16 TOPIC: Production site update with PR 18:11:30 Matt_King: Jemma has some feedback on Jon's fix, ready to merge 18:11:51 Jem: let me explain what i'm talking about 18:12:31 Jem: i'm concerned about the living room lights switch - the background color of the switch is very close to the background of the page (white on light grey) 18:13:02 Jem: i can't think of the WCAG SC 18:13:09 MarkMcCarthy: should be under non-text contrast, 3:1 ratio 18:13:15 Matt_King: is this applicable jemma? 18:13:45 Jem: i think so, and I can make a PR to make the colors just a bit more distinct 18:13:59 Matt_King: do all the switch examples have the same design? or is this one different? 18:14:06 Jem: they have the same design 18:14:41 Matt_King: we previously approved these - if we didn't think this was previously a problem, is it an oversight? or discussed prior? 18:14:53 Jem: i think the problem happened when we migrated 18:15:32 Matt_King: we can check against the editors draft 18:16:12 q+ 18:16:25 Switch example from editor's draft: https://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/examples/switch/switch.html 18:17:25 CurtBellew: i have a thought - i think what we're looking for is the contrast of the border against the background. the contrast to me looks great, and the hovering looks good too 18:18:39 Matt_King: if what is current looks like the editors' draft, i'd be okay putting it forward, only if we have consensus 18:18:40 q- 18:18:52 Jem: i think curt is right, might not be an issue 18:19:43 CurtBellew: i always thought that border was odd 18:19:52 Matt_King: jon added that to help folks udnerstand where and what the click region is 18:21:09 Matt_King: so then, seth, will we be able to merge this into main and get everything sorted? 18:21:24 seth_thompson: I can open a PR and work with the site ops people, should be fine 18:21:49 Matt_King: i'll @mention you when i close this seth 18:23:31 The site publication process: https://wai-website-theme.netlify.app/workflow/ 18:23:39 Matt_King: here's the process seth 18:23:42 seth_thompson: than,s 18:23:47 s/than,s/thanks 18:23:47 s3ththompson has joined #aria-apg 18:23:55 Matt_King: if you have questions, send em to Shawn 18:24:12 rrsagent, make minutes 18:24:12 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/04-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King 18:24:12 s/seth_thompson:/s3ththompson: 18:24:26 TOPIC: QA plan for updated Netlify APG site 18:25:05 Matt_King: updates from Alex before we go any further? we can only do QA on 2417 once we have a preview 18:25:50 s3ththompson: last meeting we talked about deferring QA -- having discussed with Alex there's a bit of work to be done on wai-aria-practices that has to happen AFTER it's stable. 18:26:05 s3ththompson: basically there's a roadblock to us generating an example 18:26:27 Matt_King: so let's talk about that process and what the timing is going to be so folks have a heads up about QA demands 18:26:50 s3ththompson: @alex, the main question is what is blocked, and what is happening on the WAI side 18:27:18 Alex: once things are stable enough that I can switch to the wai-aria-practices repo, i'll consume the content differently (since its in a directory structure) 18:27:35 Alex: I'll redo the build scripts to work with the new directory strucure 18:27:47 s/a directory/a file 18:28:00 Alex: currently i've been working on getting move-examples into a stable state 18:28:13 helen has joined #aria-apg 18:28:20 Matt_King: the last remaining things for that is getting images and CSS in there, right? 18:28:45 Alex: That's on the table, yeah, and I saw there's a review on the coverage report PR. there's two tasks for move-examples that need to be moved... 18:28:52 ... we talked about adding a link checker CI 18:29:09 ... then we have to stub the old editors' draft site. those things are what needs to be done 18:29:17 Matt_King: we can probably do the stubbing while we're doing QA 18:30:29 Matt_King: so, the focus should be stabilizing move-examples. so we have to move alert dialog and treeview A and B examples. that should be pretty light?" 18:30:55 Alex: Yeah. I also just opened a PR that adds CSS and some patterns and scripts to the example pages 18:31:02 Matt_King: is that about resolving external links? 18:31:18 Alex: the scripts I added are to have SkipTo functional on patterns and practices pages 18:31:27 s/example pages/pattern pages 18:31:34 Alex: The result is making everything feel cohesive 18:31:48 Matt_King: is the CSS just to mirror what we already have? 18:31:55 Alex: Yep, no changes, it just worked 18:32:04 Matt_King: awesome! but the tests are failing? 18:32:10 Alex: Only one 18:32:42 Matt_King: so we might need a sight-dependent person to look at the CSS for that PR 18:32:46 Jem: what number is it? 18:32:51 Alex: It's not ready, but it's 2499 18:33:08 Matt_King: jemma, can you look at that once it's ready? 18:33:16 Jem: yeah I can do that 18:33:30 Matt_King: hoping to merge it as soon as possible (tomorrow some time?) 18:33:56 Matt_King: so the to-dos on the move-examples branch, the only one that sounds unknown as far as time goes is the link checking CI 18:34:12 Matt_King: do you have an estimate for that? or a plan of attack? 18:34:15 Alex: not at this time 18:34:30 Alex: Shouldn't take -too long-, maybe 2 days or so 18:34:43 Matt_King: might that be stabilized by next tuesday then? 18:34:49 Alex: That sounds reasonable 18:35:27 Matt_King: we have lots of links to the ARIA spec, class/role ref, etc. Those links get resolved by your scripts, right? 18:35:33 Matt_King: we'll probably want that in aria-practices 18:35:50 Alex: I'll make a note of it. it was initially being resolved by respec, which ran during build 18:35:57 Matt_King: gotcha, that's what's gonna make it tricky 18:36:20 Alex: there is an HTML attribute that makes those links easily locatable, and hopefully fixable via find/replace 18:36:51 Matt_King: we want to avoid hard coding though, and continue using those classes. we need to keep the respec capability so we can match the current ARIA spec 18:37:15 Matt_King: respec has a config file... maybe this might be a separate issue then 18:37:30 Alex: Sounds like we need to figure out the algorithm for those links to keep functionality 18:37:51 Matt_King: do we want to add something to the script? So if those files are opened, the hrefs point to a real place? 18:38:04 Matt_King: or we could configure the link checker to do something similar 18:38:26 Matt_King: i guess this could increase liklihood of broken links though 18:38:52 Alex: sounds like we need to discuss that then. i can do some research and propose something next tuesday? 18:38:54 Matt_King: that works 18:39:17 Jem: respec-config.js is under aria-practices, for what it's worth if it's helpful 18:39:38 Jem: we won't talk about member assignment for QA yet since it's not ready 18:39:41 TOPIC: Next steps in long term ARIA-APG plan 18:40:11 Matt_King: maybe before the long term, what about now and the end of the year? [laughs] 18:40:39 Matt_King: so in terms of our current plan, we're still working on the redesign. we got the front end done, but working on making the back end sustainable 18:41:58 Matt_King: there's two other immediate priorities - 1) changing the about page (intro, acknowledgements, change history). end goal is that the about page is like the patterns page, examples page; just a list of stuff 18:42:27 Matt_King: have to add coverage report, code guide, etc. Isaac will be working on a design for that 18:42:42 https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/about/ 18:43:16 Matt_King: Shawn asked for a list view for all of our pages, so we'd have a more compact alternative 18:43:31 Matt_King: the about page list will basically be a test for that 18:44:04 Matt_King: item 2, before the end of the year, is incorporating data from the ARIA-AT project 18:44:18 Matt_King: there's a question of which data to include, and it'll be a future agendum 18:44:40 Matt_King: there's two sets of data - candidate and recommended - so we'll have to decide which to put up 18:45:17 s3ththompson: candidate meaning WE'VE reviewed it. recommended when (ideally two) screen reader vendors have looked at it and approved. 18:45:37 thanks for the distinction, Seth! 18:46:15 Matt_King: we need to be very sure about the screen reader data/opinions, since the info we surface will have lots of traction 18:47:04 Matt_King: something else i'm hoping to get to before the end of the year is a way for us to start including experimental content. such as Sarah's PR to bring custom/context actions to ARIA 18:47:16 Matt_King: may be part of ARIA 1.3 or 1.4 18:47:56 Matt_King: the idea is we can develop examples that demonstrate future spec additions, maybe only behind a browser with a flag set, and may/may not be supported by a screen reader vendor 18:48:19 Matt_King: the hope being we can tweak things and adjust screen reader expectations 18:49:00 Matt_King: i want to figure out how we can develop that kind of content without automatically surfacing it to all readers of the APG 18:49:07 Matt_King: hopefully we can come up with a design at least 18:49:22 Matt_King: thoughts? 18:49:28 MarkMcCarthy: feels ambitious 18:49:48 Jem: i'm not sure how we might tackle all of that between then and now 18:50:06 Matt_King: longer range, we need to get ready for ARIA 1.3, annotation example being one 18:50:11 Jem: aaron has a prototype for that 18:50:31 Matt_King: i'm worried about it because some of this will take a lot of human power 18:51:10 Matt_King: other bigger things, the biggest of all, is really just that we need more people and how do we make that happen. improving processes, onboarding, develop a community of practice 18:51:40 Jem: Helen, how do you feel about your onboarding today? 18:52:13 Helen: I think I need to learn terminology, and what the process is like, before being able to participate fully and step by step. I'm glad you gave me some information beforehand Jemma. 18:52:24 Jem: thanks for sharing! Glad you joined us, and yes, it's a long process 18:52:53 s3ththompson: to anyone listening/reading - a lot of what we're talking about is infrastructural work that will make writing APG examples easier 18:53:08 s3ththompson: you've come at a point of a bit of chaos, but should be smoother very soon 18:53:33 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+created%3A%3E2021-08-15+no%3Alabel++sort%3Aupdated-desc 18:54:08 Matt_King: So, on the about page, the acknowledgements are still being pulled from the aria-practices HTML 18:54:12 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+created%3A%3E2021-08-15+no%3Alabel++sort%3Aupdated-desc 18:54:42 Matt_King: Jemma, you wanted to add a PR against that file for Carolyn's acknowledgement. I'd encourage you to wait, or branch off of move-examples 18:54:59 Matt_King: that's just the timing part, and I know timing is tricky 18:55:51 Matt_King: I don't think there's any question we want to include anything, it's just an odd point timing wise 18:56:18 Jem: Carolyn's husband is setting up a scholarship at a Canadian university, and they're hoping for a URL. I was wondering about adding Carolyn as an editor 18:56:21 +1 18:56:45 Jem: also, where we might add some information for her on the about page. i can make a PR so we can work together on it 18:57:09 Matt_King: in that case, branch it off move-examples. you'll find the aria-practices.html file is reduced, but acknowledgements is still there 18:57:31 Matt_King: I like adding her as an editor, and lets add her before the former editors 18:57:37 Jem: i like that 18:58:24 +1 18:59:37 Matt_King: what's the timing you need to get this in? 18:59:41 Jem: hopefully ASAP 19:00:09 Matt_King: then maybe we PR it against production; branch off main and we can have something for next week 19:01:15 MarkMcCarthy: do we want to do something similar/the same as the WG? 19:01:26 Jem: they will, but they have a longer process 19:01:42 Matt_King: if there's a link we're going to provide, then yes we'll want to make sure. 19:04:04 RRSAgent, make minutes 19:04:04 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/04-aria-apg-minutes.html MarkMcCarthy 19:04:07 zakim, who is here? 19:04:07 Present: Matt_King, Jemma, helen, Zhou, Seth, Alex, MarkMcCarthy 19:04:09 On IRC I see helen, s3ththompson, MarkMcCarthy, CurtBellew, Jem, Zakim, RRSAgent, Matt_King, MichaelC, Mike5Matrix, Github, github-bot, ZoeBijl, trackbot 19:04:12 present+ s3ththompson 19:04:16 present+ siri 19:04:24 RRSAgent, make minutes 19:04:24 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/04-aria-apg-minutes.html MarkMcCarthy 19:43:24 jongund has joined #aria-apg