10:58:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-profile
10:58:12 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/09/28-wot-profile-irc
10:58:16 <kaz> meeting: WoT Profile
10:58:30 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot-profile
11:00:36 <mlagally> mlagally has joined #wot-profile
11:01:07 <mlagally> zakim, who is on the call?
11:01:07 <Zakim> Present: (no one)
11:03:52 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool
11:05:09 <Ege> Ege has joined #wot-profile
11:05:26 <kaz> chair: Lagally
11:06:10 <kaz> present+ Ben_Francis
11:06:44 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-profile
11:07:58 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
11:08:30 <kaz> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch, Ege_Korkan
11:08:43 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot-profile
11:09:26 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Architecture_WebConf#WoT_Architecture_.28Profile.29_-_Sept_28st.2C_2022
11:10:20 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
11:10:33 <kaz> zakim, who is on the call?
11:10:33 <Zakim> Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool, Ben_Francis, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Ege_Korkan
11:10:43 <kaz> topic: Agenda
11:10:55 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Architecture_WebConf#WoT_Architecture_.28Profile.29_-_Sept_28st.2C_2022 Agenda for today
11:11:00 <kaz> ml: (goes through the agenda)
11:11:18 <kaz> ... Testfest next week is important
11:11:23 <kaz> ... anything to be added?
11:11:51 <kaz> ek: wondering about how to test the Profile spec
11:12:06 <kaz> mm: should be discussed during the Testing call later
11:12:46 <kaz> ml: also we have 10 mins for testing prep during this call
11:12:51 <kaz> topic: Minutes
11:13:02 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2022/09/21-wot-profile-minutes.html Sep-21
11:13:22 <kaz> ml: any problems?
11:13:49 <kaz> (none)
11:13:52 <kaz> approved
11:14:04 <kaz> topic: Schedule
11:14:11 <kaz> [[
11:14:12 <kaz> Oct 3-6 Plugfest / Testfest for Profile 1.0
11:14:13 <kaz> Oct 10-15 Incorporate Plugfest/Testfest results, prepare CR draft
11:14:13 <kaz> 2 - weeks review
11:14:13 <kaz> CR transition End Oct
11:14:13 <kaz> ]]
11:14:20 <kaz> mm: one correction
11:14:33 <kaz> ... 3-6 Oct for Testfest
11:14:52 <kaz> ... should be Tuesday till Friday
11:15:26 <kaz> ml: meant to be Mon-Thu
11:15:43 <kaz> (need to be fixed later)
11:15:46 <Ege> q+
11:15:50 <kaz> topic: Contributions
11:16:16 <kaz> subtopic: PR 266
11:16:32 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/266 PR 266 - Refine sync vs. async action protocol binding - closes #259
11:16:52 <kaz> ek: Daniel wants to talk about this, but a bit late due to conflicts
11:17:00 <kaz> ml: lets talk about this later then
11:17:04 <kaz> subtopic: PR 277
11:17:16 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/277 PR 277
11:17:27 <McCool> q+
11:17:32 <kaz> s/PR 277/PR 277 - remove http-webhook-profile-protocol-binding-general-2 assertion - closes issue #229/
11:17:34 <kaz> ack e
11:18:05 <kaz> ml: would propose we merge this
11:18:16 <kaz> mm: we actually need assertion for each MUST
11:18:30 <kaz> ... should be careful about how to handle that
11:18:43 <kaz> ... capitalization for MUST would be important for assertions
11:18:52 <kaz> ... so I agree
11:19:04 <kaz> ml: would merge this then
11:19:07 <kaz> ek: ok
11:19:33 <kaz> merged
11:19:54 <kaz> q?
11:19:56 <kaz> ack m
11:20:22 <kaz> subtopic: PR 295
11:20:37 <kaz> ->https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/295 PR 295 - Prepare Testfest/Plugfest - informative assertion markup - generate manual.csv
11:20:56 <kaz> ml: we have to work on the distinction
11:21:16 <kaz> ... rfc2119-assertion vs rfc2119-informative-assertion
11:21:18 <kaz> mm: agree
11:22:04 <kaz> ml: ok
11:22:23 <kaz> ... the point here is that we have an informative section within the WoT Profile 1.0 spec
11:23:14 <kaz> ... also generated manual.csv file for testig
11:23:18 <kaz> s/testig/testing/
11:23:24 <benfrancis> q?
11:23:27 <benfrancis> q+
11:24:05 <kaz> bf: want to check if all those marked as "rfc2119-informative-assertion" will be removed from the implementation report
11:24:34 <kaz> ... because I think it's too early to remove them from the implementation report
11:24:54 <kaz> mm: implementation report defines the assertions
11:25:05 <sebastian> q+
11:25:11 <kaz> ... and we need to provide test results for the assertions
11:25:13 <kaz> ack b
11:25:23 <kaz> ... we should make the decision right away
11:25:32 <Ege> +1 to ben
11:25:48 <kaz> ... the decision is going forward
11:25:59 <kaz> bf: I think we need more evidence
11:26:32 <kaz> ... we're still guessing we would not get implementations for those items
11:26:38 <kaz> s/items/features/
11:27:04 <kaz> mm: technically, we can include all the features and remove them later, though
11:27:39 <kaz> ml: from my viewpoint, we need to focus on test results during the Testfest next week
11:27:42 <dape> dape has joined #wot-profile
11:27:50 <kaz> q+
11:28:11 <kaz> ... making the SSE section non-normative would make sense
11:28:36 <kaz> bf: we can't tell those features could be supported until we actually test them
11:28:51 <Ege> +1 to deferring
11:28:53 <kaz> mm: we could do another PR to rebase this
11:29:02 <kaz> ... before finalize the spec
11:29:21 <kaz> ml: if people prefer, I'm OK with deferring it until the Testfest
11:30:17 <kaz> ... what if I exclude the assertions within the assertion.csv file
11:30:24 <kaz> mm: we can wait
11:30:26 <kaz> ml: ok
11:30:39 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
11:30:41 <kaz> q?
11:30:50 <kaz> q-
11:31:00 <kaz> q- se
11:31:19 <kaz> .. let's hold this until the Testfest
11:32:10 <kaz> subtopic: PR 286
11:32:24 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/286 PR 286 - Clarify that href member of ActionStatus can be used by cancelaction - closes #283
11:33:02 <kaz> ml: would like to merge this
11:33:04 <kaz> merged
11:33:22 <kaz> subtopic: PR 287
11:33:31 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/287 PR 287 - Consolidate date-time references to RFC 3339 - closes #276
11:33:41 <benfrancis> q+
11:34:11 <kaz> ml: changes requested
11:34:42 <kaz> bf: note some timestamps which are valid ISO 8601 are not valid under RFC 3339, referencing ISO 8601 is not really enough.
11:35:05 <kaz> ml: need more discusion
11:35:11 <kaz> s/discusion/discussion/
11:35:15 <kaz> subtopic: PR 288
11:35:37 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/288 PR 288 - Remove empty Semantic Annotations section
11:35:41 <kaz> ml: any concerns?
11:35:43 <kaz> (none)
11:35:45 <kaz> merged
11:36:05 <kaz> subtopic: PR 289
11:36:13 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/289 PR 289 - Remove Links section - closes #255
11:36:18 <kaz> ml: kind of big PR
11:36:40 <Ege> +1 to removing everything
11:36:51 <kaz> mm: also wondering if we really want to remove all this
11:37:30 <kaz> bf: Lagally asked me to apply the changes based on the issue 255
11:37:57 <kaz> ... it's difficult to define "support" here
11:38:27 <McCool>  q+
11:38:31 <sebastian> q+
11:38:35 <kaz> ... we could leave the section, but the features are not implementable
11:38:39 <kaz> ack b
11:39:07 <kaz> ml: you could store the resources
11:39:28 <benfrancis> q?
11:40:13 <kaz> mm: the question of TD is that it's open-ended
11:40:15 <kaz> ack m
11:40:19 <Ege> q+
11:40:33 <benfrancis> q+
11:40:35 <kaz> ... we should write an assertion for this
11:40:45 <kaz> q?
11:40:47 <kaz> ack s
11:41:09 <kaz> sk: good example of Testfest's helping us understand it
11:41:18 <Ege> +1 to sebastian
11:41:32 <kaz> ... unfortunately, not really confirmed yet
11:41:53 <kaz> ml: how to test PDF markup as a proper signal?
11:42:27 <kaz> sk: we should provide some guideline
11:42:34 <kaz> ... not against Profile itself
11:42:58 <kaz> ... but it seems to me we're not ready to test the Profile spec
11:43:11 <kaz> ml: understand your concern
11:43:45 <kaz> ... but we had and have similar problem with TD 1.0/1.1 as well
11:43:55 <kaz> ... we have to discuss what to be done
11:44:06 <kaz> q|
11:44:12 <kaz> s/q|//
11:44:13 <kaz> q+
11:44:39 <kaz> ack e
11:44:49 <kaz> ek: PDF is a bad example
11:45:22 <kaz> ... if it can't be handled by some Consumer, can be ignored
11:45:52 <kaz> mm: it's still useful for documentation purposes
11:46:07 <kaz> ... Profile is limiting the list of supported types
11:46:24 <kaz> ... making it clear is important here
11:47:10 <kaz> ek: the purpose of the Profile spec is making it easier for developers to implement WoT systems
11:47:22 <kaz> ... how to decide the constraint?
11:47:41 <kaz> ml: can you provide counter examples on what to be supported then?
11:48:24 <kaz> ... would suggest we continue the discussion on GitHub
11:49:00 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-profile/#common-constraints-links fyi, 6.5 Links within the ED
11:49:05 <kaz> q?
11:50:19 <kaz> bf: agree with Ege
11:50:37 <kaz> ... the assertions say "Consumer MUST support..."
11:50:43 <kaz> ... also agree with McCool
11:51:05 <kaz> ... but don't think this section 6.5 Links would add anything for implementations
11:51:09 <kaz> ack be
11:51:51 <kaz> kaz: given the discussion so far, would suggest we defer this PR as well until Testfest
11:51:59 <kaz> ... and revisit this in 2 weeks
11:52:04 <kaz> ml: agree
11:52:08 <kaz> ack k
11:52:35 <kaz> subtopic: PR 293
11:52:55 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/293 PR 293 - Allow security metadata on Forms - closes #292
11:53:22 <kaz> ml: keep it open and ask for further review
11:53:31 <kaz> subtopic: PR 294
11:53:46 <Ege> q+
11:53:49 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/294 PR 294 - Make security bootstrapping mandatory - closes #250
11:53:55 <kaz> ml: kind of big changes
11:54:00 <kaz> ... and need further review
11:54:16 <dape> q+
11:54:18 <kaz> q?
11:54:38 <kaz> subtopic: PR 266 - revisited
11:54:44 <Ege> ack e
11:54:45 <benfrancis> q?
11:54:46 <Ege> cak d
11:54:47 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/266 PR 266 - Refine sync vs. async action protocol binding - closes #259
11:54:52 <kaz> ack d
11:54:53 <Ege> ack d
11:54:58 <kaz> s/cak d//
11:56:12 <kaz> -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-profile/266/3d4a8cb...benfrancis:d9a65b0.html#http-basic-profile-protocol-binding-invokeaction 7.2.2.1 invokeaction
11:56:46 <McCool> (time check - need to end on time, main call)
11:56:47 <kaz> ml: what is the conflict with TD?
11:57:00 <benfrancis> q+
11:57:14 <kaz> q+
11:58:31 <kaz> dp: if I'm a Consumer, would expect to get the boolean within the response as well
11:59:03 <kaz> ml: this PR fixes the problem, doesn't it?
11:59:22 <kaz> dp: only for synchronous
11:59:45 <kaz> bf: what it doesn't fix is asynchronous cases
11:59:59 <kaz> s/cases/case/
12:00:04 <McCool> q?
12:00:15 <kaz> ... it's still a bit ambiguous within the TD spec
12:00:17 <kaz> ack be
12:01:19 <kaz> ack k
12:01:38 <benfrancis> See https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1665
12:02:42 <kaz> kaz: I had been objecting to add the sync/async options to the Thing Description spec itself, but that was added already
12:03:00 <kaz> ... anyway, Profile and TD should be consistent with each other
12:03:11 <kaz> ... and also we still need to add clarification to TD spec
12:03:49 <kaz> ... we should be aware of those points, though merging this PR itself is OK
12:03:59 <kaz> ml: would merge this PR itself
12:04:15 <kaz> ... and continue the discussion on TD spec, and also consistency check
12:04:24 <kaz> merged
12:04:33 <kaz> [adjourned]
12:04:33 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
12:04:37 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:04:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/28-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
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