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10:55:47 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/09/21-wot-profile-irc
10:55:50 <kaz> meeting: WoT Profile
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11:03:18 <Ege> Ege has joined #wot-profile
11:04:05 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Lagally, Ege_Korkan, Michael_McCool
11:04:09 <kaz> chair: Lagally
11:05:30 <kaz> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Architecture_WebConf#WoT_Architecture_.28Profile.29_-_Sept_21st.2C_2022
11:06:08 <McCool__> McCool__ has joined #wot-profile
11:06:11 <kaz> scribenick: McCool__
11:06:12 <mlagally> zuakim, who is on the call?
11:06:17 <mlagally> zakim, who is on the call?
11:06:17 <Zakim> Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Lagally, Ege_Korkan, Michael_McCool
11:06:19 <McCool__> topic: minutes
11:06:31 <McCool__> ml: review minutes from 7 Sept
11:06:36 <kaz> i|rev|-> https://www.w3.org/2022/09/07-wot-profile-minutes.html Sep-7|
11:06:40 <McCool__> ... hearing no objections, will publish
11:06:50 <McCool__> topic: agenda
11:07:04 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Architecture_WebConf#WoT_Architecture_.28Profile.29_-_Sept_21st.2C_2022 agenda for today
11:07:18 <McCool__> ml: will review schedule, contributions, publication blockers, testing incl. testfest
11:08:07 <McCool__> topic: schedule
11:08:34 <McCool__> ml: look at scope previously, next is testfest
11:08:37 <kaz> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
11:08:46 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot-profile
11:09:03 <kaz> [[
11:09:04 <kaz> Sept 5-9: Determine Profile 1.0 Scope
11:09:04 <kaz> Sept 12-16: Decide Profile 1.0 Scope
11:09:04 <kaz> Sept 26-30 Plugfest / Testfest for Profile 1.0
11:09:04 <kaz> Oct 3-7 Incorporate Plugfest/Testfest results, prepare CR draft
11:09:04 <kaz> 2 - weeks review
11:09:06 <kaz> CR transition End Oct
11:09:06 <McCool__> ... reasonably stable spec except for async actions
11:09:10 <kaz> ]]
11:09:10 <sebastian> q+
11:09:17 <kaz> s/... re/ml: re/
11:09:19 <McCool__> ... need to understand if we can get two interoperable implementations
11:09:21 <kaz> q?
11:09:47 <Ege> q+
11:09:52 <kaz> ack s
11:09:52 <McCool__> seb: important to see what outcome of testfest
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11:10:07 <McCool__> ... out of the box interoperability needs to be really demonstrated
11:10:12 <McCool__> ... it is a big requirement
11:10:29 <McCool__> ... we have to be sure this statement is proven by plugfest results
11:10:47 <McCool__> ml: agree, if we cannot validate it then we should not publish it
11:10:54 <sebastian> ack s
11:10:56 <McCool__> ... should not publish if we are not confident
11:11:18 <McCool__> ml: ben is not on the call but did have an implementation
11:11:28 <McCool__> ... and I have an implementation
11:11:53 <McCool__> ... would be good to discuss in post-TPAC
11:12:12 <McCool__> mm: added 20m to call on Thursday to discuss testing
11:12:37 <McCool__> ml: ok; so plan is to target a CR transition end of Oct
11:12:42 <McCool__> q?
11:13:11 <McCool__> ege: for me not clear whether this is a plugfest or a testfest
11:13:34 <McCool__> ml: don't see a reason to split
11:13:36 <McCool__> q+
11:13:45 <kaz> q+
11:13:47 <kaz> ack e
11:13:53 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
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11:14:45 <McCool__> mm: rather than getting hung up on the name, we should define scope precisely
11:15:01 <mlagally> q?
11:15:05 <McCool__> ... in particular, conformance of implementation with spec, and pair-wise interoperability
11:15:06 <kaz> ack mc
11:15:44 <Ege> q+
11:15:49 <McCool__> ... can put in a README.md for the event, can discuss tomorrow
11:16:17 <McCool__> kaz: W3C testing is not for conformance, but of specifications
11:16:19 <McCool__> q+
11:16:23 <McCool__> ack k
11:16:43 <McCool__> kaz: testfest should be looking at implementation checklist
11:16:56 <McCool__> ml: will take action item to create a draft readme
11:17:17 <kaz> ack e
11:17:19 <McCool__> mm: can certainly help with tooling
11:17:44 <McCool__> ege: agree with mccool, you proposed producer/consumer, two producers same consumer
11:18:06 <McCool__> ... want to show it "just works", good to have multiple producers
11:18:22 <McCool__> ... want to avoid one implementer doing both sides
11:18:23 <kaz> s/W3C testing/basically agree with McCool, but please note that W3C testing/
11:19:23 <kaz> s/testfest should/we need to get well-prepared beforehand, and the testfest event itself should/
11:19:33 <mlagally> q?
11:19:47 <McCool__> ml: ok, don't have time today to go into details, let me take the action to create a README to discuss tomorrow
11:19:56 <McCool__> topic: contributions
11:20:12 <dape> q+
11:20:14 <McCool__> ml: quite a lot of PRs on the table
11:20:16 <McCool__> ack m
11:20:59 <McCool__> dape: PR #266, is marked as draft because we need to decide how to align TD and Profiles esp on sync actions
11:21:13 <McCool__> ... we need to make up our mind here
11:21:36 <McCool__> ml: I see ben has joined
11:22:05 <kaz> present+ Ben_Francis
11:22:05 <McCool__> ... suggest we defer the discussion about sync/async actions to plugfest
11:22:11 <kaz> s/ben has/Ben has/
11:22:16 <McCool__> ... more generally, what is the plan for PRs?
11:22:51 <kaz> i|PR #266|subtopic: PR 266|
11:22:52 <McCool__> bf: PR #266 could be merged, except for examples
11:22:59 <McCool__> q+
11:23:00 <dape> q+
11:23:17 <kaz> i|PR #266,|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/266 PR 266 - WIP - Refine sync vs. async action protocol binding - closes #259|
11:23:22 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
11:23:29 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-profile
11:23:30 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:23:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/21-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
11:23:38 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
11:23:52 <McCool__> q?
11:24:10 <McCool__> mm: I would support merging
11:24:25 <McCool__> ml: I would rather keep the PR so we can see the diff
11:24:31 <McCool__> ... and have more time to review
11:25:24 <kaz> ack dape
11:25:38 <McCool__> dape: don't want to go into details, sync actions are more aligned with TD spec, but async is new; this PR makes it cleaner
11:26:10 <McCool__> bf: agree this makes it match the defaults in the TD spec; even if a TD does not match the profile, can still use async actions
11:26:30 <McCool__> ml: ok, let's put on the agenda for the next call, let's review
11:26:40 <kaz> q+
11:26:51 <McCool__> ack m
11:27:07 <McCool__> mm: suggest we move onto some easy PRs and clear the deck a little bit
11:27:21 <kaz> ack k
11:27:24 <McCool__> kaz: also feel we should defer, need to see actual need
11:27:48 <McCool__> ml: oracle has support async actions for years and feel they are necessary for scalability
11:28:07 <McCool__> subtopci: Pr 271
11:28:22 <McCool__> ml: common constraints, needs work, mark as WIP
11:28:35 <McCool__> subtopic: make hreflang optional
11:28:42 <McCool__> ml: PR 273
11:28:51 <kaz> s/subtopci:/subtopic:/
11:28:58 <kaz> s/Pr 271/PR 271/
11:29:16 <McCool__> ... small change, any objections?  reverts to TD standard, where it is also optional
11:29:18 <kaz> q?
11:29:33 <kaz> i|common cons|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/271 Pr 271 - WIP: Common constraints - identifiers|
11:29:34 <McCool__> dape: if aligned with TD spec, do we have to mention anything?
11:30:02 <kaz> s/subtopic: make hreflang optional/subtopic: PR 273/
11:30:02 <McCool__> ml: self-contained is good, but later we can revise
11:30:10 <McCool__> subtopic: PR 274
11:30:18 <kaz> s/ml: PR 273/ml: make hreflang optional/
11:30:49 <kaz> i|make href|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/273 PR 273 - make hreflang optional - closes #245|
11:31:00 <McCool__> ml: consistent use of "WoT Profile Specification"
11:31:14 <McCool__> mm: do think we should be careful about saying profiles, plural
11:31:26 <kaz> i|consistent|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/274 PR 274 - editorial alignment - consistent use of "WoT Profile Specification" - closes #244|
11:31:35 <McCool__> ml: can we merge?
11:31:43 <McCool__> ... merged
11:31:54 <McCool__> subtopic: 278
11:32:04 <McCool__> ml: refine profile definition
11:32:29 <McCool__> ... is about terminology
11:32:35 <McCool__> ... any concerns?
11:32:39 <McCool__> ... (none) merging
11:32:52 <McCool__> subtopic: PR 279
11:33:10 <McCool__> ml: fixes typos, from dape, purely editorial
11:33:17 <McCool__> ... any objections to merging?
11:33:22 <McCool__> ... (none) merging
11:33:29 <McCool__> subtopic: PR 281
11:34:00 <McCool__> ... regenerate assertions in assertions.csv, ran script
11:34:22 <McCool__> ... any objections to merging?
11:34:31 <McCool__> ... (none) merging
11:34:46 <McCool__> ege: TD has github action that does this automatically
11:35:40 <McCool__> mm: fine with this, just avoid clobbering template.csv, used by report generator
11:35:51 <McCool__> ml: ok, would be useful to have the github action
11:36:00 <McCool__> ... merges
11:36:20 <McCool__> subtopic: 282
11:36:35 <kaz> s/282/PR 282/
11:36:36 <McCool__> ml: updates readme, remove discussion of "core profile"
11:36:42 <McCool__> ml: any objections?
11:36:47 <McCool__> ... (none) merged
11:37:11 <kaz> i|refine p|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/278 PR 278 - Refine Profile definition - closes #243|
11:37:37 <McCool__> subtopic: PR 264
11:37:43 <kaz> i|fixes typos|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/279 PR 279 - fix: typos|
11:38:19 <kaz> i|regenerate as|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/281 PR 281 - Regenerate Assertions - Sept 13|
11:38:35 <sebastian> q+
11:38:51 <kaz> i|updates re|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/282 PR 282 - Update README.md to reflect WoT Profile Specification name and contents|
11:38:59 <McCool__> bf: should we delete?
11:39:20 <McCool__> mm: this is useful, but I think it should be in a mini-profile
11:39:37 <McCool__> seb: geolocation is very complicated, would be against this
11:39:39 <McCool__> q+
11:39:40 <kaz> i|should we|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/264 PR 264 - Add geolocation semantic annotation recommendation - closes #137|
11:39:44 <McCool__> ack s
11:39:51 <kaz> q+
11:40:50 <kaz> ack m
11:41:13 <McCool__> ml: let's leave the PR open and comment on it
11:41:18 <McCool__> ack m
11:41:29 <McCool__> kaz: maybe add a label "discuss in PR"
11:41:31 <kaz> ack k
11:41:43 <McCool__> topic: issue review
11:42:13 <McCool__> topic: contributions
11:42:20 <McCool__> subtopic: PR 265
11:42:38 <McCool__> ml: about consistent renaming of baseline to basic
11:42:50 <McCool__> ... diagrams are outdated
11:44:18 <McCool__> bf: don't have source to diagrams, so this changes text to be consistent
11:44:27 <McCool__> q?
11:44:52 <McCool__> ml: unfortunately are merge conflicts
11:45:05 <McCool__> mm: so, we can agree to merge after conflicts resolved
11:45:17 <McCool__> ml: makes note on PR allowing merge
11:45:24 <McCool__> topic: issue
11:45:31 <kaz> s/topic: issue review//
11:45:41 <McCool__> ml: have been using labels to mark issues that I think can be closed
11:45:43 <kaz> s/topic: contributions//
11:46:11 <McCool__> ... please review, need to clean up
11:46:16 <kaz> i|about consis|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/265 PR 265 - Rename HTTP Baseline Profile to HTTP Basic Profile|
11:46:29 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
11:46:30 <McCool__> ... going to close unless I hear any objections
11:46:33 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:46:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/21-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
11:46:42 <McCool__> ml: there are also a list of eight publication blockers
11:47:29 <McCool__> ... but some are for profile 1.1, feel we can remove those
11:48:08 <McCool__> topic: Profile 1.0 open issues
11:48:27 <McCool__> ml: see label "Profile-1.0", 24 open issues
11:49:39 <McCool__> ... some will be closed, but many others need owners
11:50:20 <McCool__> ... some can be done by anyone, eg. generating new images, overview sections
11:51:01 <McCool__> ... there is also a link in the agenda; 13 issues in this category that don't have owners
11:51:43 <McCool__> topic: testing
11:52:02 <McCool__> ml: ege, you brought this up earlier
11:52:36 <McCool__> ... there is already a lot of input from multiple implementations
11:52:57 <McCool__> ... and I'm hoping we can reuse a lot of existing implementations for alignment with profiles
11:53:20 <McCool__> ... hardest way would be to go through them manually
11:53:37 <McCool__> q+
11:54:11 <Ege> q+
11:54:20 <kaz> i|have been using|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Propose+closing%22 Issues with "Propose closing" label|
11:54:25 <benfrancis> q+
11:55:07 <McCool__> ack m
11:55:33 <McCool__> mm: suggest that a single JSON schema might be useful to identify TDs that completely satisfy the profile
11:55:50 <McCool__> ... then we can focus manual checking on TDs that fail the schema
11:56:01 <McCool__> ... also a JSON Schema would be useful in the spec
11:56:25 <McCool__> ege: we do have a schema for the whole TD spec, also have small schemas for each assertions
11:56:59 <McCool__> ... unfortunately can't dedicate resources to this for profiles, but should be relatively straightforward
11:57:11 <McCool__> ml: is there anyone else who can help?
11:57:23 <kaz> q+
11:57:28 <McCool__> ege: unfortunately fady is also busy these days
11:57:39 <McCool__> ... it is also not a one-time job, needs to be updated
11:58:37 <McCool__> seb: end of business year, overwhelmed with various tasks
11:59:18 <McCool__> mm: any possibility to hire a student?
12:00:09 <kaz> q?
12:00:11 <kaz> ack e
12:00:13 <McCool__> mm: maybe we just do this during the testfest
12:00:46 <McCool__> bf: very few of the assertions in the profile can be tested with JSON schema
12:01:06 <McCool__> ... majority are behavioral
12:01:17 <McCool__> ml: so manual verification is required anyway
12:01:31 <McCool__> bf: ideally we should have an automated test suite
12:02:30 <McCool__> kaz: dependency among specifications, felt we failed to look at that; not a failure of tooling, but failure to look at dependencies
12:02:43 <McCool__> ... really want to understand which assertions go into which specifications
12:02:58 <McCool__> ... but let's talk next
12:03:11 <kaz> ack k
12:03:15 <kaz> ack b
12:03:21 <kaz> [adjourned]
12:03:29 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:03:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/21-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
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