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12:01:46 <kaz> meeting: OPC UA/W3C WoT
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12:02:57 <mlagally> present+ Michael_Lagally
12:03:09 <mlagally> zakim, who is on the call?
12:03:09 <Zakim> Present: Michael_Lagally
12:03:15 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Bern_Fiebiger, Dave_Raggett, Heiko_Fessenmayr, Erich_Barnstedt, Jim_Luth, Karl_Deiretsbacher, Kunihiko_Toumura
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12:03:34 <sebastian> q+
12:03:41 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool
12:03:50 <kaz> present+ Ege_Korkan
12:03:51 <dsr_> present+ Dave_Raggett
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12:04:00 <kaz> present+ Fady_Salama
12:04:03 <sebastian> q-
12:04:26 <McCool> scribenick: McCool
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12:04:41 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
12:04:49 <McCool> seb: thanks for joining this joint meeting, it has been a couple of months
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12:05:43 <kaz> present+ Kevin_Brohan
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12:07:48 <McCool> seb: agenda for today - welcome/scope/intros; technical discussion of OPC UA binding; next steps
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12:08:25 <McCool> seb: intros to focus on new people: Bernd Fiebiger
12:08:30 <McCool> ... from Kuka
12:08:53 <McCool> ... have been involved in OPC UA information models, asset administration shell
12:09:13 <McCool> ... common approach for representing interfaces of entities
12:09:28 <McCool> ... HeikoFessenmayr
12:10:14 <McCool> ... have been working on analytic instrumentation - Agilent
12:10:46 <McCool> s/HeikoFessenmayr/Heiko Fessenmayr/
12:11:00 <McCool> seb: also Dave Raggett
12:11:18 <McCool> ... was involved in early work in WoT and OPC UA
12:11:41 <McCool> topic: technical discussion
12:11:43 <McCool> q+
12:12:00 <McCool> seb: want to show you a first draft of what we would like to work on
12:12:33 <McCool> ... https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/liaisons/opcf/tech_reqs.md
12:12:56 <McCool> ... then later we need to discuss logistics, perhaps set up a regular meeting
12:13:19 <McCool> karl: missing installation or initialization of WG
12:13:29 <McCool> ... for that we need a cooperation agreement
12:14:31 <McCool> mm: I think the purpose of this meeting though is to get the charter of such a WG defined
12:15:06 <McCool> seb: and also need a smaller group, there is a doodle, to get the chairs together to sort that out
12:15:40 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/liaisons/opcf/tech_reqs.md
12:15:42 <McCool> seb: will now open tech_req.md
12:15:51 <McCool> q+
12:16:50 <McCool> seb: OPC UA already has a long journey, we've been talking about doing an OPC UA binding in WoT for at least a year
12:17:18 <McCool> ... and also many use cases that overlap with OPC UA
12:17:49 <mlagally> https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-usecases/
12:17:52 <McCool> ... including a manufacturing scenario explicitly including OPC UA
12:18:07 <McCool> ... including integration with other standards such as MODBUS
12:18:44 <kaz> i|including a m|-> https://w3c.github.io/wot-usecases/#use-case-opc-ua-binding OPC UA use case|
12:18:54 <McCool> ... we need and OPC UA binding so we can onboard OPC UA endpoints
12:19:08 <McCool> ... as described in the scenario
12:19:35 <McCool> ... back to tech description, there are different aspects
12:20:20 <sebastian> q?
12:21:25 <McCool> ... so that a WoT Consumer can treat OPC UA binding as a WoT Thing
12:21:30 <kaz> q+
12:22:01 <kaz> ack m
12:22:06 <McCool> mm: also two points to resolve: 3, reverse binding; 4 binary or going through a gateway (e.g. HTTP protocol translator)
12:22:07 <sebastian> ack k
12:22:43 <McCool> kaz: agree with mm, need to discuss also PoCs but more important issue is W3C and WoT providing binding template specification
12:23:36 <sebastian> q?
12:23:55 <McCool> mm: again, this doc is what the technical goal is and what needs to be done, separately we can decide who does what organizationally
12:24:51 <McCool> hf: in asset administration shell there is useful information about and OPC UA shell
12:25:22 <McCool> ... what is the communication protocol used?  Is there a service in between that uses definitions out of submodel of AAS?
12:25:43 <McCool> ... context data, how to access a server, how to get the right nodes
12:26:14 <McCool> ... get an overview of what is means to bring OPC UA devices to a WoT Thing
12:26:20 <McCool> q+
12:28:49 <McCool> mm: we have to think about how the information models map onto each other, and whether we want to represent relationships using links, etc.
12:28:59 <McCool> seb: these are among the kinds of things we have to decide
12:29:34 <McCool> ...coming back to Bernd, what was mentioned in the activity in OPC UA; hopefully we can reuse some of this
12:30:10 <McCool> ... the main deliverable we need is an RDF standard defining the terms needed for the binding: content types, node types, security modes, etc.
12:30:37 <McCool> ... this is conceptually a generic activity; once it exists, a WoT TD binding can just use it
12:31:27 <McCool> mm: I also think we should reuse as much as possible of the AAS concepts
12:31:37 <McCool> ... so it is compatible conceptually
12:32:12 <McCool> jl: OPC UA cloud library would provide a dictionary about the concept of the nodeset
12:32:27 <McCool> ... AAS would describe which nodesets are available in a server
12:32:33 <kaz> q+
12:33:18 <McCool> ... on the other side, description in AAS, how to find security, endpoints, hints regarding cloud libraries
12:33:54 <kaz> s/jl:/bf:/
12:33:54 <McCool> s/jl:/bf:/
12:35:33 <McCool> mm: I would like to reiterate that we should focus on the high-level technical goals so we can establish the charter
12:35:53 <mlagally> q+
12:36:00 <kaz> ack mc
12:36:01 <McCool> kaz: agree with mm; also, jim luth attended our meeting yesterday and we discussed ontologies
12:36:01 <kaz> ack k
12:36:05 <sebastian> ack M
12:36:19 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2022/09/14-smartcities-minutes.html Web-based Digital Twins for Smart Cities session
12:36:25 <McCool> ml: since AAS has been called out twice, would like to understand how OPC UA uses it
12:36:36 <McCool> ... could someone explain?
12:37:03 <McCool> bf: if I can present I can show some figures
12:37:15 <McCool> ... common area of OPC UA and AAS
12:37:42 <McCool> seb: ok, if it is fast, we only have 20m left
12:38:14 <McCool> bf: (shows diagram)
12:39:17 <McCool> ... stores information about an asset, might have a submodel template for an OPC UA
12:39:46 <McCool> ... any application can then discover this information
12:39:53 <McCool> q+
12:40:23 <sebastian> q+
12:40:29 <McCool> ... can implement in advance applications that use an asset before it arrives
12:41:13 <McCool> ... asset integration can be defined in a standardized way
12:41:14 <kaz> present+ Matt_Wherry
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12:41:54 <McCool> mm: is AAS currently being used by OPC UA?
12:41:56 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
12:42:02 <McCool> bf: there is a companion spec
12:42:10 <kaz> ("AAS" stands for "Asset Administration Shell")
12:42:23 <kaz> q+
12:42:26 <kaz> ack mc
12:42:28 <kaz> ack seb
12:42:47 <McCool> seb: AAS is a data model, has submodel for many different kinds of information; and definition of how to access AAS from HTTP and from OPC UA
12:43:14 <sebastian> q?
12:44:06 <McCool> mm: would like to suggest we defer discussing AAS for now, but return to it later
12:44:21 <McCool> ... and would still like resolutions on the two points I mentioned
12:45:09 <McCool> seb: agree, and think that AAS is not inventing something new, but is using definitions from OPC UA
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12:46:51 <McCool> proposal: to explictly declare point 3 (reverse OPC UA to WoT binding) as being out of scope
12:48:13 <McCool> kaz: ok with narrower scope here, but situation with OPC UA is similar to ECHONET, binary vs. http translator
12:49:12 <McCool> mm: agree, but let's do that next
12:49:23 <McCool> seb: any concerns with the proposal?
12:49:29 <McCool> mm: hearing node
12:49:41 <McCool> s/node/none/
12:49:59 <McCool> resolution: to explicitly declare point 3 (reverse OPC UA to WoT binding) as being out of scope
12:50:59 <mlagally> q+
12:51:08 <McCool> mm: are we doing a binary binding or a translator?
12:51:11 <kaz> ack k
12:51:29 <McCool> seb: need to be careful, there are different OPC UA protocols
12:52:42 <Jim_Luth> q+
12:52:49 <McCool> ... probably want to start with classic one, which is client/server
12:52:56 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
12:53:02 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:53:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/15-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:53:08 <McCool> mm: ok, so there are three options: Soap, client/server, pub/sub
12:53:41 <kaz> chair: Sebastian/McCool
12:53:52 <McCool> ... maybe we can have several stages, but it sounds like priorities should be client/server, pub/sub
12:54:02 <kaz> i/thanks for j/topic: Logistics/
12:54:16 <kaz> q?
12:55:00 <McCool> ack m
12:55:03 <sebastian> ack m
12:55:06 <sebastian> ack j
12:55:22 <McCool> mm: we can put it into the scope but not necessarily having a resolution today
12:55:44 <Ege> q+
12:55:48 <McCool> jl: I guess it depends on what the philosophy of the current bindings are
12:56:16 <McCool> ... for example, does MODBUS binding use binary binding or HTTP bridge?
12:56:53 <kaz> q+
12:56:56 <McCool> ege: right now we are doing the first: what IP, port, what data structure, etc.
12:56:58 <kaz> ack e
12:57:21 <McCool> ... but can translate that in a gateway to another
12:58:49 <McCool> jl: but the ultimate receiver does not know what the binary protocol looks like?
12:59:08 <McCool> ege: gateway could be interoperable
12:59:12 <kaz> s/Bern_F/Bernd_F/
12:59:25 <McCool> jl: both top and bottom are specified
12:59:31 <sebastian> q?
12:59:45 <Jim_Luth> q-
12:59:50 <McCool> mm: maybe this is something we defer to the actual spec
13:00:21 <McCool> kaz: agree with Jim that we need to specify enough content for the actual binding; perhaps we should gather some best practices
13:00:38 <McCool> ... for example, Takanaka is already using WoT for MODBUS
13:00:49 <McCool> q+
13:00:51 <McCool> ack k
13:01:14 <McCool> seb: out of time, need to organize next meeting
13:01:46 <McCool> ... suggestion is to have a once-a-month meeting until this is resolved
13:02:23 <kaz> ack m
13:03:37 <McCool> mm: personally feel that if we can keep the discussion high level, we really only need one more meeting to define the charter scope
13:04:06 <kaz> kaz: agree, and would suggest we start with clarifying our expectations and requirements for that purpose
13:04:20 <kaz> i/agree/scribenick: kaz/
13:04:24 <kaz> scribenick: McCool
13:04:30 <McCool> bf: seems there is enough discuss to describe a common working group
13:04:51 <McCool> mm: technically, it will probably be a pair of groups, one on each side, that are working together
13:05:03 <McCool> seb: so, another meeting to define the abstract charter
13:06:29 <McCool> seb: suggest then another, small meeting among the chairs
13:07:17 <kaz> [adjourned]
13:07:27 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:07:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/15-wot-minutes.html kaz
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