Meeting minutes
<Geun-Hyung_Kim_> present Geun-Hyung Kim
<javadch> p+
Erik: Any objections to recording?
[No objections heard]
Erik: Thanks all, for coming. I also want to introduce Karl Carter who will speak to some of the topics here.
[Alex introduces himself]
Erik: Would like to hear your expectations about Web3? What does it mean to you or is it just a swear word?
Karl: Interested in young creators...I think of web3 as an intersection of crypto, web, ....
… how do you create new inclusive systems, including peer-to-peer monetization
… blockchain has been around for a while,
… but artists are taking note with the rise of NFTs
… the creator class has spearheaded a lot of that adoption.
… we think of web3 as creating new business models, enabled by this new tech
… we build a social media front end with a fintech background.
… to help creatives monetize their work; they are always looking for new ways
Erik: How have you implemented your platform?
EriK: How did you choose various components? Are there standards opportunities?
Karl: I'm not the CTO so I won't dive into the tech details.
… I can connect you to Tawanda (the CTO)
… we looked at a lot of blockchains and chose Stellar
… we chose social media because it is familiar.
… we built KYC into account creation
… existing technologies for cross-border payments did not meet our needs.
… so we turned to the Interledger Protocol.
Erik: Check out what snake nation is doing
<marie> https://
Erik: Open the floor to other views on web3
Erik: Here are some of my use cases....
… primarily in the early days of Web3 a lot had to do with converting US dollars to the token-du-moment as fast as possible.
… it was and remains clunky to convert fiat to a token
… most decentralized finance (defi) is happening on Ethereum today.
… But Ethereum is doing a massive refactoring.
… they are moving away from Proof of Work to a Proof of Stake
Erik: This is, to a large extent the genesis of Web3, where most apps are deployed.
<marie> https://
David_Turner: Could you briefly define Web3 (if not synonymous with blockchain)?
Erik: Web3 is a collection of technology to connect "the Web" to blockchain.
Quoting that: "Web3 (also known as Web 3.0[1][2][3]) is an idea for a new iteration of the World Wide Web which incorporates concepts such as decentralization, blockchain technologies, and token-based economics.[4] "
Erik: Web3 might involve transactions or proof of ownership.
… exchange of tokens in a distributed ledger, using Web as the UI
Erik: My experience has been building Web 2/3 blockchain games
… they are strategy games. You have an NFT deployment (a bunch of JPEGS), then some game mechanics
… in our case we had 10K "goblins" that were put on the Ethereum blockchain.
… Ethereum "gas" (the cost for presenting a transaction) was at an all time high.
… we had 1000s of users who wanted to purchase these NFTs. So we published a whitelist.
… and that cost multiple thousands of USD.
… we learned that doing this blockchain game on Ethereum would become untenable.
… we moved away from Ethereum as a result and moved to Polygon.
… Polygon is a side chain; didn't have the transactional fees that came with Ethereum.
Erik: The movement is from web2 video games to web3 video games
… there are studios that are investing in and incorporating blockchain components in their games
… why would they do that?
… the argument is that the items inside these games -- the economies in these games -- live in the games and that's it.
… one advantage of using blockchain is that you can itemize each piece in the inventory (e.g., a new helmet or skin)
… can be extracted from the game and possibly ported to another game as an NFT
… or sell it
AlexL: My question was going to be "what game mechanics need blockchain?" You may have answered my question. Games existed before blockchain.
… is it necessary for the game to run on the blockchain?
Erik: You don't need to run the game on the blockchain; the economy part is on the blockchain (the inventory). It's a hybrid model.
… there are some people who are suspect due to some scams in this space
Erik: There are other aspects to games beyond the items. For example, in World of Warcraft, if you want to level up you pay.
… and those payments involve transaction fees.
Uchi: I wanted to add my view of Web3 and from a standards perspective.
… I think a connection between Web3 and Web2 includes DIDs and VCs.
… and Interledger protocol
… I see an opportunity to discuss standards in this space
erik: Work on "Web5" also seems relevant
<Zakim> jyasskin, you wanted to ask concretely what web standards would be needed to help this
jyasskin: What standards do you think are relevant here, and which need to be implemented in browsers?
Erik: WebRTC ; signaling
… I would also agree with Uchi's mention of DID, VC
IJ: your game inventory example was helpful
… you can export/import these assets into other contexts
… in designing a game, were there other browser capabilities that you needed
… or do you leverage the browser for most elements of game, and put other elements into blockchain
… in your experience, what was the experience?
Erik: We did not have guidance on how to do this hybrid thing securely, mitigate potential attacks.
Erik: We used existing Web2 for UI and linked it to blockchain via some decentralized and some centralized APIs.
Erik: We may not need more standards; we may have more questions and need to learn
pchampin: I heard here a definition of Web3 as glue between Web as we know it and blockchain...that's different from what I've read.
… what I've read is that the web as we know it is broken and not decentralized enough; so let's throw it away and create new technology.
Erik: If I may, I think there was a "lofty aspiration" of Web3 initially, but that's not what's happened in practice.
… nearly every form of Web3 app has some centralization tied to it.
<Zakim> jyasskin, you wanted to mention web3.js
jyasskin: One area of seen for web browser capability is to move web3.js into the browser.
… I would be hesitant to do that as a browser vendor if there is unclear governance and lots of fraud. How do we do this ethically?
Erik: I agree it will be difficult to move capabilities into the browser until we have more user protections.
<cel> regarding the more lofty web3: https://
Karl: I think technology is outpacing both user understanding and regulation.
… I think of Web3 as enabling new business models.
… others I think see it as an opportunity to stake a claim in an emerging Metaverse.
… I think there will continue to be evolution.
jyasskin: What does blockchain get us? Why not use simpler technology?
Karl: Blockchain makes settlement faster, cheaper and more secure.
Erik: A lot of blockchains have learned from the mistakes of Ethereum. Fees are going down.
<Zakim> gkellogg, you wanted to suggest we move on from using Web3 as a term
gkellogg: I want to suggest that the community use another term besides Web3.
… it's not an inclusive term, or may be understood that way
<phila> +1 to gkellogg
gkellogg: There's not a linear progression.
… maybe "blockchainweb"
javadch: There are other related techs like Immersive that have a browser element but also ties to Web3
Erik: I think the overlap between Web3 and the Metaverse will become more prolific
… how do economies work among avatars in a digital world?
Ian: Next steps?
<jyasskin> Tantek mentioned https://
Erik: This breakout was just a starting point for thinking about this and standards.
<gkellogg> +1 to Tantek for finding the history of Web3
Ian: Any interest in a CG?
Erik: It would be of interest to me (cf. ORTC->WebRTC)
Ivan: Suppose we solve the concern about security and scamming; does it make sense to standardize an API to blockchain when there are new blockchains minted every day?
Uchi: I wanted to give a +1 to a CG.
Erik: Regarding Ivan's question, I think there are technologies that had many options that ended up in one standard.
Ivan: What about ILP?
AlexL: Interledger only deals with the value stored in ledgers, not the information.
… you need to think about blockchain as 2 things.
… it's "CRUD" without the "UD"
… there are valid use cases for "CR" only such as key registries.
… some of these blockchains store value with a coin or token.
… ILP deals with moving the value.
… I don't think of ILP as bridging blockchains for data...ILP is just for bridging ledgers (accounts that store value)
jyasskin: I think that web3.js is ethereum based, so would only scale so far.
<Zakim> jyasskin, you wanted to ask snakenation how we can help
jyasskin: It sounds like you are using Web3 to let people buy things from artists.
jyasskin: The people reading posts provide money, platform provides money, etc.
… that's much more connected to Interledger than to the more general writing data to Ethereum.
Karl: We need smart contracts as well
jyasskin: How can browsers help you?
Karl: We're exploring that now.
… for example, we are fully mobile.
… so part of the answer is in PWAs.
Erik: Thank you all.
… there are probably a handful of blue chip blockchains.
… most of the daily new ones are derivative of the blue chip ones.
Karl: +1 to the CG
<Creole_Queen> Hi