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14:14:04 <dom> Meeting: Trusted Internet  - TPAC 2022 breakout
14:14:06 <dom> Chair: Takuya_Sakamoto, Shigeya_Suzuki
14:14:08 <dom> Agenda:  https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/505c7741-69d4-4d87-b4a9-21dcefd0bbf9#agenda
14:14:10 <dom> RRSAgent, make log public
14:14:12 <dom> RRSAgent, this meeting spans midnight
14:18:42 <dom> RRSAgent, stay
14:18:46 <dom> Zakim, stay
14:18:46 <Zakim> I don't understand 'stay', dom
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16:13:17 <dom> agenda+ breakout
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22:46:23 <Jay> zakim, start meeting
22:46:23 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
22:46:24 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Jay
22:47:10 <Jay> meeting: Trusted Iinternet
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23:15:08 <Jay> present+
23:15:47 <Jay> chair: takuya
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23:21:05 <gendler> Present+
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23:31:57 <Jay> scribe: jay
23:32:17 <Jay> [slide description]
23:32:55 <Jay> osamu: slide 5 [project and related works on data architecture]
23:33:40 <Jay> ... the back ground of this talk
23:34:05 <Jay> ... we need your voice  on this presentation.
23:34:55 <Jay> takuya: after the talk on my presentation, please give us your opinion.
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23:36:02 <Jay> ... [self introduction]
23:37:51 <Jay> ... [slides description]
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23:38:33 <Jay> ... slide 4: issue to confirm the credebility
23:38:56 <Jay> ... slide 5: trust in business
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23:39:21 <Jay> ... building the trustworthy
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23:39:54 <Geun_Hyung> present+ Geun-Hyung Kim
23:40:27 <Jay> ... slide 6: our approach is checking by physical world
23:40:39 <brentz> present+
23:40:54 <shigeya> present+
23:41:07 <shigeya> present+ shigeya
23:41:38 <Jay> ... slide 7: architecture with three endorsement layers
23:44:11 <Geun_Hyung> please share the link of present material..
23:44:32 <Jay> ... slide 8: Endorsement graph/flow of each data
23:45:58 <Jay> ... slide 9: endorsement graph generation, with each attribution data
23:46:19 <Jay> ... slide 10: presentation description
23:47:19 <Jay> ... slide 11: conclusions
23:48:24 <Jay> ... slide 12: discussion points, use cases,stakeholders, ecosystem
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23:50:07 <gendler> q+
23:51:12 <Jay> gendier: trust we handle many years. two main concers
23:51:52 <brentz> q+
23:51:59 <Jay> ... trust signal individual involved. makes difficult problem
23:53:09 <Jay> ... 2nd is technology point, TXT score of trust. big problem is bad score coming
23:53:20 <Jay> ... do you have any solution?
23:53:43 <annette_g_> q+
23:54:01 <bmay> q+
23:54:15 <Jay> takuya: trust list is not easy to make
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23:55:12 <Jay> ... so usually social media, people will not expose much data.
23:55:24 <gendler> ack gendler
23:55:27 <Jay> ack gend
23:55:49 <dhuigens> q+
23:55:59 <Bert> q+ to ask about levels of endorsements: can I endorse something partially, e.g., to say I believe it is 50% true, or that, if an article claims something is A out of A, B and C, I know that at least it is not C?
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23:56:34 <Jay> jonathan: use case..
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23:56:55 <gendler> ack brentz
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23:57:36 <Jay> brentz: trust over internet has similar problem, do you know?
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23:58:15 <Jay> takuya: our main characteristic is endorsement layer.
23:58:56 <Jay> ... ACDC will help
23:59:14 <gendler> ack annette_g_
23:59:18 <brentz> Trust over ip: https://trustoverip.org/
23:59:57 <Jay> annett: our community group also discussing on trusted TXT assigning score.
00:00:32 <Jay> ... please check web site entity. little bit issue with scoring people.
00:01:08 <Bert> s/annett:/annette:/
00:01:22 <Jay> ... endorser should has reliable source
00:01:59 <gendler> q+ to clarify my comments on trust.txt
00:02:09 <Jay> q?
00:03:16 <Jay> takuya: this solution is adding endorsemnet, and define data model etc.
00:03:36 <gendler> ack bmay
00:03:36 <ken> q+
00:04:18 <Jay> bmay: can I trust the integrity? next level can I trust of orgin of signal.
00:05:07 <Jay> ... easy path of signal, more trustworthy path. question is trust  and cofidentiality
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00:05:56 <Jay> ... believe of privacy, graph of endorsement, becoming social issue.
00:06:00 <gendler> +1 to bmay statement on privacy
00:06:34 <Jay> takuya: this solution is signed data. it is not easy real trustness.
00:06:42 <Jay> ack bmay
00:07:08 <Jay> osamu: our proposal model is current internet.
00:08:47 <Jay> ... mashup the verifiable data is our approach. more trustable will recognize with plural data
00:10:06 <Jay> shigeya: I am co-chair. we want have ultimate solution. but at least, verifiable data, distiguished data.
00:10:37 <Jay> ... we can one step up by our approach.
00:10:47 <gendler> ack dhuigens
00:11:37 <Jay> dhuigens: according to your presentation, assueme web App run correctly.
00:12:38 <Jay> ... security model now . VC at web app is not good. do you agree?
00:13:18 <Jay> osamu: of course, we need some end-point trust. which rely on other, we focus
00:13:28 <Bert> s/assueme/we assume the
00:13:37 <Jay> ... it si now out of course, requirement is our scope.
00:13:40 <gendler> ack bert
00:13:40 <Zakim> Bert, you wanted to ask about levels of endorsements: can I endorse something partially, e.g., to say I believe it is 50% true, or that, if an article claims something is A out of
00:13:43 <Zakim> ... A, B and C, I know that at least it is not C?
00:14:31 <Jay> Bert: partial and negative endorsement. ex covid 80%. could realized?
00:14:46 <Jay> takuya: data model is very difficly.
00:15:18 <Jay> ... this is not easy problem. but need to do it.
00:15:29 <bmay> q+
00:16:11 <Jay> osamu: evalution metric is always problem. on the contrary, how we can disign is our part.
00:16:16 <gendler> ack gendler
00:16:16 <Zakim> gendler, you wanted to clarify my comments on trust.txt
00:17:21 <Jay> gendler: base system is the relationship between two. which base on trust TXT.
00:17:31 <Jay> takuya; what is TXT?
00:18:20 <Jay> gendler: JSON document, technicaly machine readable domain
00:18:26 <Bert> s/covid/endorse
00:18:36 <Bert> s/difficly/difficult
00:18:55 <Bert> s/disign/design
00:19:47 <Jay> osamu: I need originator profil led by Keio univ on advertisement. Trust of two party is described there.
00:19:56 <annette_g_> To clarify the notes about my comments: I pointed out that trust.txt does not issue scores. It simply enables entities to state relationships with other entities. I also mentioned that the proposed system has two issues; first it does rely on endorsers being trustworthy (which is different from simply identifying itself), and second it requires identification of relevant endorsers for a given message, and it's not clear to me how[CUT]
00:20:51 <shigeya> Originator Profile Project: https://originator-profile.pages.dev/en-US/
00:21:42 <Jay> ken: general comment. need more use cases. it will easy to understand. for example fake news.
00:21:51 <gendler> ack ken
00:22:40 <Jay> ... to help to concrete idea such as model. generic study only is not good approach.
00:23:06 <gendler> Annette; I'm sorry I didn't properly address your latter points! I would agree with them entirely. They try to offload this to the economic incentives of trade associations to curate their members properly for trust, but that was overly optimistic in my estimation as well!
00:24:17 <Jay> takuya: we will select harmful example for W3C. scoring is useful for viewer.
00:24:21 <Jay> q?
00:25:25 <Jay> ack bmay
00:25:49 <Jay> takuya: thank you for your help on discussion.
00:27:07 <Jay> @@: use case my sense high/law, people's understanding is very different each. this is not good for trustworthy
00:27:41 <Jay> takuya: incentive is required fo chekc their honestness.
00:28:56 <Jay> kojima: should we connect/divide both opinion?
00:29:19 <Jay> @@@: this is not technical problem.
00:30:01 <Jay> osamu: please introduction of trusted-web
00:31:09 <Jay> shigeya: our trying on trusted web is extend the trusted data. if we extend our trusted data, it will ehlp gap.
00:32:32 <Jay> ... we need effort to fill this gap. we found organization has various document in terms of veifiable. Area of trust is much mor easy for everyone.
00:32:32 <Bert> s/fo chekc their honestness/to check their honesty.
00:33:06 <Bert> s|high/law|of high/low
00:33:22 <Jay> ... this is a multi-year project. now we issue Japanese version in August. English version isll come soon.
00:33:43 <Bert> s/veifiable/verifiable
00:33:58 <Bert> s/isll/will
00:34:08 <Jay> [adjourned]
00:35:14 <Bert> RRSAgent, make minutes
00:35:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/14-trusted-internet-minutes.html Bert
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22:02:41 <dom> RRSAgent, bye
22:02:41 <RRSAgent> I see no action items