IRC log of coga on 2022-09-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:29:31 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #coga
13:29:31 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/09/08-coga-irc
13:29:33 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:29:36 [trackbot]
Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:29:36 [trackbot]
Date: 08 September 2022
13:30:02 [Lisa]
regrets+ david, shawn
13:30:49 [Lisa]
scribe+ Jennie, Lisa, Rain
13:39:54 [Lisa]
agenda+ Tpac https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PZkjDtPbZHlcFxmmbTA6e-Sp_qU6_9Z8Ux85PINe5QU/edit#
13:40:00 [Lisa]
clear agenda
13:40:04 [Lisa]
agenda+ Tpac https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PZkjDtPbZHlcFxmmbTA6e-Sp_qU6_9Z8Ux85PINe5QU/edit#
13:40:30 [Lisa]
agenda+ Tpac can we all join the meetings?
13:41:47 [Lisa]
agenda+ actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.ka7r1m4q5vkc
13:42:51 [Lisa]
Review of timelines timeline <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JXa94s2lbzJ0v9FHasxxws3CsOcljHHBdlQ2VOxYqAQ/edit#>
13:43:45 [Lisa]
agenda+ todo items for tpac agenda
13:46:05 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has joined #coga
13:48:37 [Lisa]
agenda+ brakout sessions https://ti.to/w3c/tpac-2022-public-breakouts
13:57:01 [ShawnT]
ShawnT has joined #coga
13:58:55 [kirkwood]
kirkwood has joined #COGA
13:59:30 [Jennie]
Jennie has joined #coga
13:59:41 [Jennie]
present+
14:00:44 [Rain]
Rain has joined #coga
14:00:54 [Rain]
present+
14:01:14 [Lisa]
zakim, next item
14:01:14 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Tpac https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PZkjDtPbZHlcFxmmbTA6e-Sp_qU6_9Z8Ux85PINe5QU/edit# -- taken up [from Lisa]
14:01:38 [Jennie]
Lisa: We have had a few regrets
14:01:49 [Jamie_Vanderwall]
Jamie_Vanderwall has joined #coga
14:01:53 [ShawnT]
regrets
14:02:09 [julierawe]
julierawe has joined #coga
14:02:12 [julierawe]
present+
14:02:35 [Jennie]
* ShawnT - try this: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribing_Commands_and_Related_Info
14:02:35 [Lisa]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PZkjDtPbZHlcFxmmbTA6e-Sp_qU6_9Z8Ux85PINe5QU/edit#
14:02:43 [Rachael]
present+
14:03:12 [Jennie]
Lisa: There is a link with "Official W3C TPAC 2022 Calendar" to access the schedule
14:03:15 [ShawnT]
regrets+
14:03:23 [Jennie]
...I will try to stay in the channel throughout
14:03:40 [Jennie]
Julie: I can be in the IRC channel too
14:03:49 [Rachael]
q+
14:03:55 [Jennie]
...I noticed that there is more than 1 IRC channel listed for COGA vs non COGA people
14:04:01 [Jennie]
Lisa: I didn't notice that.
14:04:13 [Jennie]
...Also, the 1st 2 meeting is joint with AG
14:04:26 [Jennie]
...Those are in AG's room
14:04:36 [julierawe]
https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/ba492297-3263-4d02-ab81-edcfd826e4d4
14:04:36 [Jennie]
...I will highlight that in the Google Doc
14:04:46 [Jennie]
...So, not our room for the 1st 2 meetings
14:04:59 [Jennie]
Julie: Above is link for the meeting
14:05:05 [kirkwood]
present+
14:05:52 [Jennie]
Rachael: Lisa - please add the IRC meeting channel for each one
14:05:54 [Rachael]
q-
14:06:00 [Jennie]
Lisa: OK
14:06:21 [Jennie]
Julie: Can you confirm the start time for the meeting?
14:06:33 [Jennie]
Rachael: I confirm it starts at 8:30
14:06:57 [Jennie]
Lisa: We have 3 pieces of information
14:07:00 [Jennie]
...1: the Zoom
14:07:00 [Kiki]
Kiki has joined #coga
14:07:11 [Kiki]
present
14:07:11 [Jennie]
...2: for those joining remotely
14:07:16 [Jennie]
...and those joining physicall
14:07:23 [Jennie]
...3: then the IRC channel
14:07:28 [Rachael]
q+
14:07:48 [Rachael]
q-
14:08:00 [Jennie]
...We are talking about the meetings next week, called TPAC
14:08:05 [Jennie]
...It is in Vancouver
14:08:18 [Jennie]
...We are working on the agenda - where to call in, and where to be
14:08:30 [Jennie]
...I also want to check that everyone can access this link
14:08:37 [julierawe]
Lisa/Rachael, can you confirm the meeting is in Granville and not Burrard?
14:08:50 [aaronchu]
aaronchu has joined #coga
14:08:55 [Jennie]
...John K and Jennie are joining remotely
14:09:08 [aaronchu]
Hello Lisa!
14:09:10 [aaronchu]
+present
14:09:27 [Jennie]
Rain: I am attending remotely and I can confirm I can access that link
14:09:32 [Jennie]
Lisa: Are you a member of AG?
14:09:34 [Jennie]
Rain: yes
14:09:56 [Jennie]
Lisa: is anyone who is not a member of AG able to get to the conference call page?
14:10:05 [JustineP]
JustineP has joined #coga
14:10:15 [Jennie]
...Because we have 2 parent groups, some are members of 1, some the other, some both
14:10:23 [Jennie]
...We have meetings with both parent groups
14:10:29 [Jennie]
...I want to be sure people can join
14:10:36 [Becca_Monteleone]
Becca_Monteleone has joined #COGA
14:10:37 [Jennie]
Kiki: I don't have sufficient access
14:10:42 [Jennie]
Lisa: Thank you Kiki
14:10:43 [Becca_Monteleone]
present+
14:10:52 [Rachael]
q+
14:11:01 [Jennie]
...I need to make a calendar invite with the information in it and send it to everyone that wants to attend
14:11:19 [Jennie]
...Please put your name under virtual if you might need a calendar invite
14:11:29 [Jennie]
...I can put the Zoom call information into the calendar invite
14:11:34 [Jennie]
...I can't put it in a public space
14:11:36 [Jennie]
q?
14:11:46 [Jennie]
Lisa: I can't put it on the email list
14:11:55 [Jennie]
...I think a calendar invite will work best
14:12:23 [Lisa]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PZkjDtPbZHlcFxmmbTA6e-Sp_qU6_9Z8Ux85PINe5QU/edit#heading=h.s44fw933hpfu
14:12:23 [Jennie]
...Add your name into the Attending heading
14:12:28 [Jennie]
...This is a direct link
14:12:42 [Jennie]
...Adding your email address would be helpful as well
14:13:28 [Jennie]
...So try the links, and if you can't access, please send me an email, and try to access the IRC channel
14:13:41 [aaronchu]
Hello!
14:14:17 [kirkwood]
present+
14:14:42 [Jennie]
Lisa: I will also send this information out in an email - the full agenda. Is that helpful?
14:14:46 [Jennie]
+1
14:14:50 [JustineP]
+1
14:14:51 [Rain]
+1 to email
14:15:07 [Jennie]
q?
14:15:10 [julierawe]
q+
14:15:16 [Jennie]
ack Lisa
14:15:16 [Lisa]
ack next
14:15:29 [Jennie]
Rachael: Kiki - are you registered for TPAC?
14:15:32 [Jennie]
Kiki: no
14:15:44 [Jennie]
Rachael: My guess is that she can't get to the page because she is not registered
14:15:52 [Jennie]
...For those that are not registered, you are supposed to register
14:16:10 [Jennie]
...If there is 1 or 2 meetings you are to attend, then that is different
14:16:55 [Jennie]
ack Rachael
14:17:02 [Lisa]
https://www.w3.org/2022/09/TPAC/#schedule
14:17:09 [Jennie]
Lisa: This is the full schedule for the week
14:17:24 [Jennie]
...There is a link for registration - I will add that into our document
14:17:29 [Rachael]
...Please use your discretion about attending select sessions if you have not registered.
14:17:45 [Jennie]
Lisa: It is important that the right people are on the call
14:18:35 [Jennie]
...I don't want to discourage people from attending COGA meetings
14:18:42 [Jennie]
q?
14:18:53 [Rachael]
+1 to making sure the right people are in the room
14:19:28 [Jennie]
John K: Where is the link you are asking us to check?
14:19:41 [Jennie]
...The one some people do not have access to
14:19:47 [Lisa]
ag page: https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_ag
14:20:08 [Jennie]
Lisa: This is a members only page
14:20:17 [Jennie]
q?
14:20:31 [Jennie]
Lisa: There are also break out sessions
14:20:36 [kirkwood]
all good. works thank you
14:20:55 [Jennie]
Lisa: Multiple talks - they all seem interesting
14:21:09 [Jennie]
...There is free registration for those breakout sessions
14:21:20 [Lisa]
zakim, next item
14:21:20 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Lisa
14:21:25 [Lisa]
ack next
14:21:31 [Lisa]
zakim, next item
14:21:31 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Tpac can we all join the meetings? -- taken up [from Lisa]
14:21:59 [Jennie]
Julie: The TPAC event page says the meeting is in Bird in the south tower, but the Google doc says Grandville.
14:22:09 [Jennie]
Lisa: Granville is the AG room
14:22:17 [Jennie]
Julie: The event page says Bird
14:22:28 [Jennie]
...(Burrard)
14:22:44 [Jennie]
Lisa: Burrard is our room, but for the first meeting, we are going to the AG room
14:23:01 [Jennie]
...When we have joint meetings, we pick a meeting for where we will be
14:23:22 [Jennie]
...For that 1st meeting, the host room (AG's room) is where we will meet
14:23:59 [Jennie]
...I have added the names of the rooms on our Google Doc by meeting, within each day
14:24:14 [Jennie]
...So after lunch we move to the COGA room, which is Burrard
14:24:21 [Jennie]
Rachael: That is my understanding as well
14:24:39 [Jennie]
Lisa: For Tuesday, we have a joint meeting with Adapt in our room (Burrard)
14:25:07 [Jennie]
...Our room is room 12 - called Burrard. South Tower, 4th floor
14:25:15 [Jennie]
...This is our IRC channel, our call in information
14:25:30 [Jennie]
John K: This is good, thanks
14:25:40 [Jennie]
Julie: It makes sense now that you have explained it.
14:26:20 [Jennie]
John K: Monitoring the IRC channels is a great way to keep up
14:27:14 [Jennie]
Lisa: Anyone else still confused
14:27:21 [Jennie]
...?
14:27:28 [Jennie]
...Definitely ask if you need help
14:27:28 [Lisa]
q?
14:27:43 [Jennie]
Rachael: Due to circumstances, Alastair and I are no longer going in person
14:27:57 [Jennie]
...Michael Cooper is now the primary contact for AGWG in person
14:28:04 [Lisa]
tpac agenda google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PZkjDtPbZHlcFxmmbTA6e-Sp_qU6_9Z8Ux85PINe5QU/edit#
14:28:31 [Jennie]
Lisa: I will add Julie and Michael as contacts to the Google Doc
14:29:35 [Jennie]
Lisa: We will also be in the COGA IRC channel
14:30:22 [Jennie]
Lisa: 1st meeting on Monday - Functional Needs document
14:30:30 [Jennie]
...This is with APA and AG - both of our parent groups
14:30:45 [Jennie]
...We have spent a lot of time reviewing categories of functional needs
14:30:59 [Jennie]
...We made a table of what they had, and what we wanted to add.
14:31:05 [Jennie]
...we will talk them through these categories
14:31:28 [Jennie]
...Then there is a break
14:31:48 [Jennie]
...The times in the Google Doc are all in Vancouver Time - Pacific Tim
14:32:04 [Jennie]
...There is a link that will let you see what your local time is
14:33:02 [Jennie]
...The 2nd meeting on Monday: this is discussing test types - the presentation Julie has been working on
14:33:14 [Jennie]
...AG is working on Silver, making new types of tests
14:33:20 [Jennie]
...We want to see how well they work for COGA
14:33:36 [Jennie]
...The history is really important - trying to getting COGA aspects into WCAG
14:33:58 [Jennie]
...We are trying to see if the new types of tests can help us fit in more of our tests
14:34:14 [Jennie]
...We have many examples that will hopefully help answer the question: what types of tests should be made?
14:34:20 [Jennie]
...Next: lunch
14:34:37 [Jennie]
...After lunch - we can begin to work on some of the actions from the morning
14:34:56 [Jennie]
...Tuesday meeting 1 is Adapt - they used to be called personalization
14:35:20 [Jennie]
...They will give us an outline of where they want to go, and how we can work with them
14:35:31 [Jennie]
...Then we will focus on the Content Usable update
14:35:41 [Jennie]
...That meeting is in the COGA room
14:35:56 [Jennie]
...Rain will give an overview on what the Structure group is doing
14:36:07 [Jennie]
...Then we will brainstorm on our documents
14:36:21 [Jennie]
...The mental health subgroup will be after lunch
14:36:36 [Jennie]
...and the implications for next steps
14:36:43 [Jennie]
...Any questions?
14:36:43 [Lisa]
q?
14:36:44 [Jennie]
q?
14:37:00 [Lisa]
zakim, next item
14:37:00 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.ka7r1m4q5vkc -- taken up [from Lisa]
14:37:04 [Jennie]
Lisa: next item is actions
14:37:30 [Jennie]
...but there is another topic
14:37:54 [Jennie]
...We need a way to store research but this is in all different places
14:38:11 [Jennie]
...We may want to discuss a new place or mechanism for saving research
14:38:27 [Jennie]
...Do you prefer to go over action items? Or talk about this other topic?
14:39:15 [Rain]
+1 to going over where we track research
14:40:03 [Lisa]
topic: reserch pages
14:40:23 [Rain]
q+
14:40:39 [Lisa]
ack next
14:40:41 [Jennie]
Lisa: do we want to put the effort into making the Google Doc: The COGA Design Guided - Research and more information more thorough?
14:40:53 [Jennie]
Rain: I think that would be useful. It would also support the Structure group's work
14:41:06 [Jennie]
...The survey is showing people are asking about the research that backs up the information in Content Usable
14:41:38 [Jennie]
...I am wondering if it might make sense to do the majority of the tracking in a Spreadsheet - so it is sortable
14:41:52 [kirkwood]
+1
14:41:54 [Jennie]
...Then we can insert that into a Google Doc. This way people have a choice about how to best to access it
14:42:13 [Jennie]
John K: I agree to the suggestion to have it in a spreadsheet
14:42:16 [julierawe]
q+
14:42:16 [Jennie]
...That would be easier
14:42:46 [Lisa]
ack next
14:42:48 [aaronchu]
+1 to Rain's suggestion
14:43:07 [Jennie]
Julie: I agree with Rain and John. I think a benefit: we might have multiple studies for a single pattern
14:43:22 [Jennie]
...In a spreadsheet you could create a column for research #1, research #2.
14:43:36 [Jennie]
...This way you could prevent having 1 cell with multiple entries
14:43:37 [Github]
https://github.com/w3c/coga/issues/1 : Table formatting is missing
14:43:37 [Github]
https://github.com/w3c/coga/issues/2 : References to Research item 41 is misformatted
14:44:07 [Jennie]
...Even if we are doing it by the name of the study, it can get really complicated if you are mentioning more than 1 study per cell
14:44:32 [Jennie]
Lisa: We have 4 links to WCAG proposals in different forms for Make the Purpose of your Page Clear
14:44:38 [Jennie]
...How would we do that in a spreadsheet?
14:44:53 [Jennie]
Rain: If we want to be able to sort and filter, we would want them all in individual rows
14:44:59 [aaronchu]
q+
14:45:07 [Jennie]
...Make the Purpose of your Page Clear repeated in each row
14:45:18 [Jennie]
...Then we could filter for just Make the Purpose of your Page Clear
14:45:20 [Jennie]
q?
14:45:41 [Jennie]
Lisa: But then you have 4 rows labeled Make the Purpose of Your Page Clear, but then you also have WCAG
14:45:52 [Jennie]
...How is that listed?
14:45:59 [Jennie]
q+
14:46:19 [Jennie]
Lisa: The only way I can see this working is to have each pattern be its own sheet
14:46:21 [Rain]
q+
14:46:25 [Jennie]
ack Jennie
14:46:34 [Jennie]
Lisa: This would be really complicated
14:46:44 [Lisa]
ack next
14:46:52 [Rain]
q-
14:47:08 [Jennie]
Aaron: I would volunteer to create a sample, and then everyone could try it out, and give feedback
14:47:11 [kirkwood]
great!
14:47:11 [Jennie]
Lisa: Thank you Aaron
14:47:24 [Jennie]
Lisa: Most of the research is in research module and the issue papers
14:47:33 [Jennie]
...Do we put that link in each row?
14:47:58 [julierawe]
q+
14:48:02 [aaronchu]
Jennie, I am happy to sync up and collaborate offline if that works for you.
14:48:07 [Jennie]
...So Aaron are you taking the action item to try to put this into a different format
14:48:17 [Lisa]
ack next
14:48:52 [Jennie]
Aaron: Yes, I am happy to look at this, and get feedback
14:48:58 [julierawe]
q+
14:49:03 [Lisa]
ack next
14:49:17 [Jennie]
Julie: I suggest - Aaron: Jennie and Shawn have started a spreadsheet on testing
14:49:32 [Jennie]
...It may be a helpful starting point - Shawn has already entered all the patterns
14:49:45 [Jennie]
...It may be useful to have 1 spreadsheet
14:50:08 [Jennie]
...I don't know if that is too much in 1 spreadsheet, but it may be helpful to have this as a starting point
14:51:07 [Jennie]
Spreadsheet Shawn started: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15kHdhq_KaIgbxdNPEA0ceNZ-tMs6aAe4m_vOitEM3HY/edit?usp=sharing
14:51:27 [aaronchu]
nice!
14:51:39 [Jennie]
Lisa: OK, so you could copy that
14:51:48 [Jennie]
...and see how that works
14:52:04 [Jennie]
Aaron: That works. I can take a look, then synch up with Shawn and Jennie offline
14:52:20 [Jennie]
Lisa: great. Anything else for the extra 2 minutes?
14:52:23 [Jennie]
q+
14:52:52 [Lisa]
jennie: update on gaudenship
14:53:19 [Lisa]
we met yesterday re: the gaudenship and supported desion making, as a kick off meeting
14:53:55 [Lisa]
some sugestions on ways to move forward. Judy had a good apritiation of the need
14:54:03 [Lisa]
John: agrees
14:54:51 [Lisa]
we need more concrete sugestions that are easy for them to act on
14:55:07 [Lisa]
michael is the point person on next steps
14:55:11 [Lisa]
lisa:
14:55:22 [Lisa]
legel team are very busy
14:56:12 [Lisa]
but would push faster for a person who needs it now
14:56:59 [Lisa]
jennie: aregency perhapes around the process documents
14:57:46 [Jennie]
*Have to drop for another meeting. Looking forward to chatting more next week!
14:57:59 [Becca_Monteleone]
I am not able to join the subgroup meeting today - I will review the powerpoint this afternoon.
14:58:15 [aaronchu]
I have to drop. Thanks everyone!
14:58:29 [kirkwood]
Jennie, good point about the process document
15:01:49 [Lisa]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:02:08 [Lisa]
RRSAgent, publish minutes
15:02:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/08-coga-minutes.html Lisa
15:11:14 [Lisa]
topic: clear language subgroup: looking at examples for tpac
15:12:31 [ShawnT]
present+
15:14:33 [julierawe]
present+
15:16:37 [ShawnT]
there's a lot of dependencies in silver / WCAG 3.0
15:19:22 [ShawnT]
Also known as AGWG
15:19:31 [Lisa]
q?
15:19:45 [Jennifer]
Jennifer has joined #coga
15:20:23 [Lisa]
ack next
15:21:23 [Lisa]
overview of silver and ag
15:21:36 [julierawe]
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Tve0g7pRufB5iShWwstwrfGdDtbn8YdsHEyN7Coj1vU/edit#slide=id.p
15:23:09 [Lisa]
julie: we are close to being able to show this to wcag rachel etc
15:23:48 [Jamie_Vanderwall_]
Jamie_Vanderwall_ has joined #coga
15:24:37 [Lisa]
termonolgy is moving/changing but we will roll with that
15:25:51 [Lisa]
looking at some comutational small tests
15:26:22 [Lisa]
then we get adaptives - double negitives
15:26:55 [Lisa]
we add the word unitentialy incase it is part of key mophology in some dialect somewhere
15:27:08 [Lisa]
do we need tests in each language?
15:27:17 [Lisa]
or can be percriptive
15:27:30 [Lisa]
q+
15:32:26 [Rain]
q+
15:35:13 [Lisa]
ack next
15:35:15 [Lisa]
ack next
15:35:23 [Lisa]
q+
15:36:30 [kirkwood]
+1 concern double negative creates a point that may be a blocker in conversation
15:36:53 [Rain]
ack Rain
15:40:41 [kirkwood]
+1 good point, lisa esp with ‘familiar design’
15:43:31 [Lisa]
ack next
15:44:21 [Lisa]
q+
15:47:04 [kirkwood]
good point on the perception of pushing it all into a design system
16:08:27 [Lisa]
RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:08:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/08-coga-minutes.html Lisa
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