11:54:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag3-equity
11:54:37 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/08/15-wcag3-equity-irc
11:54:38 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
11:54:39 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jeanne
11:54:43 <jeanne> Meeting: WCAG3 Equity Subgroup
11:54:43 <jeanne> present:
11:54:43 <jeanne> chair: Janina, jeanne
11:54:43 <jeanne> present+
11:54:44 <jeanne> zakim, clear agenda
11:54:44 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
11:54:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/15-wcag3-equity-minutes.html jeanne
11:54:44 <Zakim> agenda cleared
11:54:44 <jeanne> q?
11:55:14 <jeanne> queue:
12:00:11 <jeanne> q?
12:00:15 <jeanne> q-
12:00:28 <Jen> Jen has joined #wcag3-equity
12:00:34 <Jen> present+
12:00:46 <jeanne> agenda+ Review expectations: scribing, queuing, homework, CEPC
12:00:46 <jeanne> agenda+ Writing proposals and supporting varied accessibility needs
12:00:46 <jeanne> agenda+ Review the concepts that the definition should capture
12:00:46 <jeanne> agenda+ Review Known Challenges section
12:00:47 <jeanne> agenda+ Review Outstanding Questions section
12:01:10 <janina> present+
12:01:14 <laura> present+ Laura_Carlson
12:02:59 <jeanne> zakim, take up item 1
12:02:59 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Review expectations: scribing, queuing, homework, CEPC -- taken up [from jeanne]
12:03:03 <laura> scribe: Laura
12:03:51 <laura> jeanne: please use the IRC que.
12:04:29 <jeanne> CEPC -> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/#unacceptablebehavior
12:04:33 <laura> ... reminder of  CEPC
12:04:33 <laura> Reminder of CEPC
12:05:19 <laura> ... allow everyone apporunity to speak, and being respectful.
12:05:54 <laura> jennifer: please let me know if I should be doing anything.
12:06:29 <laura> janina: reminder of need to que.
12:07:03 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
12:07:03 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Writing proposals and supporting varied accessibility needs -- taken up [from jeanne]
12:07:05 <laura> janne: looked at how to make it work for new members.
12:07:34 <laura> jeanne: set up google doc.
12:07:54 <laura> ... will try to make things sync up.
12:07:54 <jeanne> Drafts and thoughts on Equity -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nNIHH8c55xWLk5mmTCVDPSnORcIlX2n4MNg3eyADRRg/edit#heading=h.th10bv7bnizg
12:08:30 <laura> ... it will allow others to comment on opur work.
12:09:06 <Cyborg> Cyborg has joined #wcag3-equity
12:09:21 <Jen> q+
12:09:49 <laura> ... good to have differing opinions.
12:10:11 <jeanne> s/differing opinions/differing accessibility needs
12:10:17 <laura> jen: raising issues since I joined.
12:10:38 <laura> ... such as coga. Tools are not working.
12:11:04 <laura> ... how did any thing ever get done.
12:11:37 <laura> ... some have difficulties with the tools.
12:12:19 <laura> ... need consistency in where things are.
12:12:39 <MichaelC> q+
12:12:54 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
12:12:54 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, jeanne
12:12:56 <jeanne> ack jen
12:12:56 <laura> jeanne: Review the concepts
12:13:07 <MichaelC> zakim, close this item
12:13:07 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MichaelC
12:13:11 <MichaelC> q-
12:13:13 <jeanne> zakim,  take up next
12:13:13 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Review the concepts that the definition should capture -- taken up [from jeanne]
12:13:39 <laura> MC: looked at homework and added thoughts to the doc.
12:14:15 <laura> ... (reads his updates)
12:14:58 <Cyborg> is this where we are now? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nNIHH8c55xWLk5mmTCVDPSnORcIlX2n4MNg3eyADRRg/edit#heading=h.th10bv7bnizg
12:15:01 <laura> mc: state vs process. Thinks it is more of a state.
12:15:55 <MichaelC> q+
12:15:59 <laura> jeanne: (reads her updates)
12:16:02 <Jen> q+
12:16:37 <laura> ... likes how it impacts out guidelines.
12:16:49 <laura> ... like to have very specific things.
12:17:00 <janina> q+ to drop mentioning "measurability" and simply say "prioritize meeting user needs"
12:17:21 <jeanne> ack jan
12:17:21 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to drop mentioning "measurability" and simply say "prioritize meeting user needs"
12:17:28 <MichaelC> q+ to say state, requirements, process
12:17:39 <laura> janina: name meeting user needs as our priority.
12:17:41 <jeanne> q+ to respond to "measurability"
12:17:54 <MichaelC> ack me
12:17:54 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say state, requirements, process
12:17:57 <janina> ack ja
12:18:03 <laura> ... measurability may be the topic.
12:18:15 <laura> mc: equity is a state.
12:18:37 <laura> ... we need to define it and be clear.
12:18:56 <laura> ... then here are things that are needed to achive them
12:19:00 <Cyborg> q+
12:19:01 <jeanne> +1 to that
12:19:22 <jeanne> ack jen
12:19:29 <laura> ... room for processs guidance at the end.
12:20:09 <janina> q+ to address process vis a vis state
12:20:10 <laura> jen: just finidng google doc this morning. Think it is a
12:20:36 <laura> jeanne: wiki doc is the forma doc.
12:20:52 <Cyborg> can we add the framework doc to the google doc too so we can comment on it too?
12:21:05 <Cyborg> link to framework doc please?
12:21:12 <laura> jen: I added a lot to the wiki last week.
12:21:24 <jeanne> Equity Framework -> https://github.com/w3c/silver/wiki/Equity-Framework
12:21:43 <laura> ... intstagram real
12:21:55 <laura> ... would be a helpful guide for us.
12:22:00 <jeanne> +1 to the state outcome.  I think there is also a process element in how we develop guidelines
12:22:14 <laura> ... we can' keep pace with technology changes.
12:22:34 <MichaelC> q+ to talk about scope at actionable
12:22:44 <laura> ... progessive enhancement is helpful to this.
12:23:22 <laura> ... added  graphics.
12:23:51 <laura> ... nees pwd contributing to the work.
12:24:12 <Cyborg> can the wiki material be added to the google doc to reconcile them please?
12:25:07 <laura> jeanne: reads Laura's updates.
12:25:45 <jeanne> Laura's definition prooposal -> https://github.com/w3c/silver/wiki/Equity-Framework#draft-definition-from-laura
12:25:57 <janina> q?
12:25:58 <jeanne> ack je
12:25:58 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to respond to "measurability"
12:26:46 <MichaelC> q+ to s/measure/evaluate/
12:26:54 <Jen> +1 to we cannot exclude things because of measurability
12:27:12 <laura> jeanne: thinks measurability can't be excluded from the definition.
12:28:05 <jeanne> ack cy
12:28:24 <MichaelC> q+ to note existing efforts towards equity, and to prioritize finding additional ones
12:28:30 <laura> Cyborg: +1 to Jeanne.
12:28:56 <laura> ... can wiki content be put into the wiki?
12:29:12 <jeanne> q+ to talk about how to keep documents in sync
12:29:32 <laura> ... we are talking about equity and inequity.
12:29:39 <MichaelC> q+ to explore inequity
12:30:10 <laura> ... need to explain both.  Explain inequity first.
12:30:38 <laura> ...think it is a process and a state.
12:31:06 <laura> ... we should address measurability too.
12:31:35 <laura> ... will add to google doc.
12:31:50 <jeanne> ack jan
12:31:50 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to address process vis a vis state
12:32:29 <MichaelC> q+ to say req for proc
12:32:44 <laura> janina: agree with MC it is a state. But it also needs to be a process because it keeps changing.
12:33:25 <laura> ... no one has fully clean hands.
12:33:53 <laura> ... alt text has qualitative factors.
12:34:30 <Jen> q+
12:35:10 <laura> ... what makes things work? It may be qualitave  not just quantitative.
12:35:15 <MichaelC> ack me
12:35:15 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to talk about scope at actionable and to s/measure/evaluate/ and to note existing efforts towards equity, and to prioritize finding additional ones and to
12:35:18 <Zakim> ... explore inequity and to say req for proc
12:36:09 <laura> mc: scope of what we can do: We are ficused on web site authoring.
12:36:48 <laura> s/ficused/focused/
12:37:28 <laura> ... could have requirements for our proceces. but should be a separate conversation.
12:38:31 <laura> ... I've  been focusing on test an measure to evaluate.
12:38:49 <laura> ... looking at inequity could be helpful.
12:40:02 <laura> jeanne: mirroring wiki in the google doc can be complicated.
12:40:54 <Cyborg> q+
12:40:57 <laura> jen: mirror issues are very real.
12:41:31 <laura> ... looking at "outcome" or "state".
12:41:53 <laura> ... added definitions.
12:42:09 <laura> ... leaning toward "outcome"
12:42:24 <laura> ... something to reflect on.
12:42:57 <laura> ... increasing representation is a longer term issue.
12:43:54 <janina> q?
12:44:10 <laura> ... may pwd have joined but will not come returrn because of issues encountered.
12:44:30 <laura> s/returrn/return/
12:44:32 <janina> q+ about this subgroup scope
12:44:37 <janina> q+
12:44:49 <jeanne> ack je
12:44:51 <jeanne> ack jen
12:44:56 <jeanne> ack cy
12:45:24 <laura>  Cyborg: terms woud fit into a model.
12:45:50 <laura> ... will think about it.
12:46:31 <laura> ... difficult to do 2 screens.
12:47:17 <laura> jeanne: trying to write a proposal to bring this together
12:47:20 <jeanne> ack je
12:47:20 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to talk about how to keep documents in sync
12:47:30 <jeanne> ack jan
12:48:02 <laura> janina: hearing tool issues are problematic.
12:48:17 <laura> ... need to narrow our focus.
12:48:38 <jeanne> q+ to say our focus for this sprint is what is needed to make conformance decisions at TPAC
12:49:16 <laura> ... need a tech description of what authors need to do.
12:49:20 <Cyborg> q+
12:49:49 <jeanne> ack jea
12:49:49 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say our focus for this sprint is what is needed to make conformance decisions at TPAC
12:49:51 <laura> ... not going to solve all equity issues. need to narrow scoe.
12:50:05 <laura> s/scoe/scope/
12:50:18 <laura> jeanne: our focus for this sprint is what is needed to make conformance decisions at TPAC
12:50:52 <jeanne> ack cy
12:50:59 <laura> ... need good decsions about conformance model.
12:51:07 <janina> q+
12:51:24 <laura> Cyborg: come back to process and conformace.
12:51:48 <laura> ... could create buckets and invite input.
12:52:49 <laura> ... helpful to get continuing input on inequity.
12:53:05 <laura> ... scope higher.
12:54:10 <laura> janina: not sure how we meet coga in  measurability,  it is a qualitative & subjective.
12:54:24 <jeanne> q+ to review difference between measureability and evaluation and automation
12:54:33 <jeanne> ACK jan
12:54:48 <laura> ...  describe how it looks and works.
12:55:29 <Cyborg> what Janina just said ought to be in this document.
12:55:45 <laura> jeanne: are groups working on measureability and evaluation
12:56:16 <jeanne> ack je
12:56:16 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to review difference between measureability and evaluation and automation
12:56:19 <laura> ... could add a new section for  those
12:57:27 <laura> jeanne:  we on AG agenda for next week.
12:57:34 <Cyborg> how can i add between now and then?
12:57:52 <laura> ... (reads proposed survey questions)
12:58:13 <Cyborg> can we please copy from the framework to the google doc so i can comment on that?
12:58:42 <laura> ... I can add things to the wiki.
12:59:09 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
12:59:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/15-wcag3-equity-minutes.html jeanne
13:40:12 <laura> laura has left #wcag3-equity
13:47:50 <janina> janina has left #wcag3-equity
14:44:27 <jeanne> present+ Cyborg, MichaelC
14:44:39 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:44:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/15-wcag3-equity-minutes.html jeanne