IRC log of wcag3-equity on 2022-08-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:54:37 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wcag3-equity
11:54:37 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/08/15-wcag3-equity-irc
11:54:38 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
11:54:39 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jeanne
11:54:43 [jeanne]
Meeting: WCAG3 Equity Subgroup
11:54:43 [jeanne]
present:
11:54:43 [jeanne]
chair: Janina, jeanne
11:54:43 [jeanne]
present+
11:54:44 [jeanne]
zakim, clear agenda
11:54:44 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
11:54:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/15-wcag3-equity-minutes.html jeanne
11:54:44 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
11:54:44 [jeanne]
q?
11:55:14 [jeanne]
queue:
12:00:11 [jeanne]
q?
12:00:15 [jeanne]
q-
12:00:28 [Jen]
Jen has joined #wcag3-equity
12:00:34 [Jen]
present+
12:00:46 [jeanne]
agenda+ Review expectations: scribing, queuing, homework, CEPC
12:00:46 [jeanne]
agenda+ Writing proposals and supporting varied accessibility needs
12:00:46 [jeanne]
agenda+ Review the concepts that the definition should capture
12:00:46 [jeanne]
agenda+ Review Known Challenges section
12:00:47 [jeanne]
agenda+ Review Outstanding Questions section
12:01:10 [janina]
present+
12:01:14 [laura]
present+ Laura_Carlson
12:02:59 [jeanne]
zakim, take up item 1
12:02:59 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Review expectations: scribing, queuing, homework, CEPC -- taken up [from jeanne]
12:03:03 [laura]
scribe: Laura
12:03:51 [laura]
jeanne: please use the IRC que.
12:04:29 [jeanne]
CEPC -> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/#unacceptablebehavior
12:04:33 [laura]
... reminder of CEPC
12:04:33 [laura]
Reminder of CEPC
12:05:19 [laura]
... allow everyone apporunity to speak, and being respectful.
12:05:54 [laura]
jennifer: please let me know if I should be doing anything.
12:06:29 [laura]
janina: reminder of need to que.
12:07:03 [jeanne]
zakim, take up next
12:07:03 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Writing proposals and supporting varied accessibility needs -- taken up [from jeanne]
12:07:05 [laura]
janne: looked at how to make it work for new members.
12:07:34 [laura]
jeanne: set up google doc.
12:07:54 [laura]
... will try to make things sync up.
12:07:54 [jeanne]
Drafts and thoughts on Equity -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nNIHH8c55xWLk5mmTCVDPSnORcIlX2n4MNg3eyADRRg/edit#heading=h.th10bv7bnizg
12:08:30 [laura]
... it will allow others to comment on opur work.
12:09:06 [Cyborg]
Cyborg has joined #wcag3-equity
12:09:21 [Jen]
q+
12:09:49 [laura]
... good to have differing opinions.
12:10:11 [jeanne]
s/differing opinions/differing accessibility needs
12:10:17 [laura]
jen: raising issues since I joined.
12:10:38 [laura]
... such as coga. Tools are not working.
12:11:04 [laura]
... how did any thing ever get done.
12:11:37 [laura]
... some have difficulties with the tools.
12:12:19 [laura]
... need consistency in where things are.
12:12:39 [MichaelC]
q+
12:12:54 [jeanne]
zakim, take up next
12:12:54 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, jeanne
12:12:56 [jeanne]
ack jen
12:12:56 [laura]
jeanne: Review the concepts
12:13:07 [MichaelC]
zakim, close this item
12:13:07 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MichaelC
12:13:11 [MichaelC]
q-
12:13:13 [jeanne]
zakim, take up next
12:13:13 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Review the concepts that the definition should capture -- taken up [from jeanne]
12:13:39 [laura]
MC: looked at homework and added thoughts to the doc.
12:14:15 [laura]
... (reads his updates)
12:14:58 [Cyborg]
is this where we are now? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nNIHH8c55xWLk5mmTCVDPSnORcIlX2n4MNg3eyADRRg/edit#heading=h.th10bv7bnizg
12:15:01 [laura]
mc: state vs process. Thinks it is more of a state.
12:15:55 [MichaelC]
q+
12:15:59 [laura]
jeanne: (reads her updates)
12:16:02 [Jen]
q+
12:16:37 [laura]
... likes how it impacts out guidelines.
12:16:49 [laura]
... like to have very specific things.
12:17:00 [janina]
q+ to drop mentioning "measurability" and simply say "prioritize meeting user needs"
12:17:21 [jeanne]
ack jan
12:17:21 [Zakim]
janina, you wanted to drop mentioning "measurability" and simply say "prioritize meeting user needs"
12:17:28 [MichaelC]
q+ to say state, requirements, process
12:17:39 [laura]
janina: name meeting user needs as our priority.
12:17:41 [jeanne]
q+ to respond to "measurability"
12:17:54 [MichaelC]
ack me
12:17:54 [Zakim]
MichaelC, you wanted to say state, requirements, process
12:17:57 [janina]
ack ja
12:18:03 [laura]
... measurability may be the topic.
12:18:15 [laura]
mc: equity is a state.
12:18:37 [laura]
... we need to define it and be clear.
12:18:56 [laura]
... then here are things that are needed to achive them
12:19:00 [Cyborg]
q+
12:19:01 [jeanne]
+1 to that
12:19:22 [jeanne]
ack jen
12:19:29 [laura]
... room for processs guidance at the end.
12:20:09 [janina]
q+ to address process vis a vis state
12:20:10 [laura]
jen: just finidng google doc this morning. Think it is a
12:20:36 [laura]
jeanne: wiki doc is the forma doc.
12:20:52 [Cyborg]
can we add the framework doc to the google doc too so we can comment on it too?
12:21:05 [Cyborg]
link to framework doc please?
12:21:12 [laura]
jen: I added a lot to the wiki last week.
12:21:24 [jeanne]
Equity Framework -> https://github.com/w3c/silver/wiki/Equity-Framework
12:21:43 [laura]
... intstagram real
12:21:55 [laura]
... would be a helpful guide for us.
12:22:00 [jeanne]
+1 to the state outcome. I think there is also a process element in how we develop guidelines
12:22:14 [laura]
... we can' keep pace with technology changes.
12:22:34 [MichaelC]
q+ to talk about scope at actionable
12:22:44 [laura]
... progessive enhancement is helpful to this.
12:23:22 [laura]
... added graphics.
12:23:51 [laura]
... nees pwd contributing to the work.
12:24:12 [Cyborg]
can the wiki material be added to the google doc to reconcile them please?
12:25:07 [laura]
jeanne: reads Laura's updates.
12:25:45 [jeanne]
Laura's definition prooposal -> https://github.com/w3c/silver/wiki/Equity-Framework#draft-definition-from-laura
12:25:57 [janina]
q?
12:25:58 [jeanne]
ack je
12:25:58 [Zakim]
jeanne, you wanted to respond to "measurability"
12:26:46 [MichaelC]
q+ to s/measure/evaluate/
12:26:54 [Jen]
+1 to we cannot exclude things because of measurability
12:27:12 [laura]
jeanne: thinks measurability can't be excluded from the definition.
12:28:05 [jeanne]
ack cy
12:28:24 [MichaelC]
q+ to note existing efforts towards equity, and to prioritize finding additional ones
12:28:30 [laura]
Cyborg: +1 to Jeanne.
12:28:56 [laura]
... can wiki content be put into the wiki?
12:29:12 [jeanne]
q+ to talk about how to keep documents in sync
12:29:32 [laura]
... we are talking about equity and inequity.
12:29:39 [MichaelC]
q+ to explore inequity
12:30:10 [laura]
... need to explain both. Explain inequity first.
12:30:38 [laura]
...think it is a process and a state.
12:31:06 [laura]
... we should address measurability too.
12:31:35 [laura]
... will add to google doc.
12:31:50 [jeanne]
ack jan
12:31:50 [Zakim]
janina, you wanted to address process vis a vis state
12:32:29 [MichaelC]
q+ to say req for proc
12:32:44 [laura]
janina: agree with MC it is a state. But it also needs to be a process because it keeps changing.
12:33:25 [laura]
... no one has fully clean hands.
12:33:53 [laura]
... alt text has qualitative factors.
12:34:30 [Jen]
q+
12:35:10 [laura]
... what makes things work? It may be qualitave not just quantitative.
12:35:15 [MichaelC]
ack me
12:35:15 [Zakim]
MichaelC, you wanted to talk about scope at actionable and to s/measure/evaluate/ and to note existing efforts towards equity, and to prioritize finding additional ones and to
12:35:18 [Zakim]
... explore inequity and to say req for proc
12:36:09 [laura]
mc: scope of what we can do: We are ficused on web site authoring.
12:36:48 [laura]
s/ficused/focused/
12:37:28 [laura]
... could have requirements for our proceces. but should be a separate conversation.
12:38:31 [laura]
... I've been focusing on test an measure to evaluate.
12:38:49 [laura]
... looking at inequity could be helpful.
12:40:02 [laura]
jeanne: mirroring wiki in the google doc can be complicated.
12:40:54 [Cyborg]
q+
12:40:57 [laura]
jen: mirror issues are very real.
12:41:31 [laura]
... looking at "outcome" or "state".
12:41:53 [laura]
... added definitions.
12:42:09 [laura]
... leaning toward "outcome"
12:42:24 [laura]
... something to reflect on.
12:42:57 [laura]
... increasing representation is a longer term issue.
12:43:54 [janina]
q?
12:44:10 [laura]
... may pwd have joined but will not come returrn because of issues encountered.
12:44:30 [laura]
s/returrn/return/
12:44:32 [janina]
q+ about this subgroup scope
12:44:37 [janina]
q+
12:44:49 [jeanne]
ack je
12:44:51 [jeanne]
ack jen
12:44:56 [jeanne]
ack cy
12:45:24 [laura]
Cyborg: terms woud fit into a model.
12:45:50 [laura]
... will think about it.
12:46:31 [laura]
... difficult to do 2 screens.
12:47:17 [laura]
jeanne: trying to write a proposal to bring this together
12:47:20 [jeanne]
ack je
12:47:20 [Zakim]
jeanne, you wanted to talk about how to keep documents in sync
12:47:30 [jeanne]
ack jan
12:48:02 [laura]
janina: hearing tool issues are problematic.
12:48:17 [laura]
... need to narrow our focus.
12:48:38 [jeanne]
q+ to say our focus for this sprint is what is needed to make conformance decisions at TPAC
12:49:16 [laura]
... need a tech description of what authors need to do.
12:49:20 [Cyborg]
q+
12:49:49 [jeanne]
ack jea
12:49:49 [Zakim]
jeanne, you wanted to say our focus for this sprint is what is needed to make conformance decisions at TPAC
12:49:51 [laura]
... not going to solve all equity issues. need to narrow scoe.
12:50:05 [laura]
s/scoe/scope/
12:50:18 [laura]
jeanne: our focus for this sprint is what is needed to make conformance decisions at TPAC
12:50:52 [jeanne]
ack cy
12:50:59 [laura]
... need good decsions about conformance model.
12:51:07 [janina]
q+
12:51:24 [laura]
Cyborg: come back to process and conformace.
12:51:48 [laura]
... could create buckets and invite input.
12:52:49 [laura]
... helpful to get continuing input on inequity.
12:53:05 [laura]
... scope higher.
12:54:10 [laura]
janina: not sure how we meet coga in measurability, it is a qualitative & subjective.
12:54:24 [jeanne]
q+ to review difference between measureability and evaluation and automation
12:54:33 [jeanne]
ACK jan
12:54:48 [laura]
... describe how it looks and works.
12:55:29 [Cyborg]
what Janina just said ought to be in this document.
12:55:45 [laura]
jeanne: are groups working on measureability and evaluation
12:56:16 [jeanne]
ack je
12:56:16 [Zakim]
jeanne, you wanted to review difference between measureability and evaluation and automation
12:56:19 [laura]
... could add a new section for those
12:57:27 [laura]
jeanne: we on AG agenda for next week.
12:57:34 [Cyborg]
how can i add between now and then?
12:57:52 [laura]
... (reads proposed survey questions)
12:58:13 [Cyborg]
can we please copy from the framework to the google doc so i can comment on that?
12:58:42 [laura]
... I can add things to the wiki.
12:59:09 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
12:59:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/15-wcag3-equity-minutes.html jeanne
13:40:12 [laura]
laura has left #wcag3-equity
13:47:50 [janina]
janina has left #wcag3-equity
14:44:27 [jeanne]
present+ Cyborg, MichaelC
14:44:39 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:44:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/15-wcag3-equity-minutes.html jeanne