IRC log of apa on 2022-08-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:51:58 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #apa
13:51:58 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/08/10-apa-irc
13:51:59 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:52:02 [trackbot]
Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
13:52:02 [trackbot]
Date: 10 August 2022
13:52:50 [Matthew_Atkinson]
Chair: Matthew
13:52:53 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
13:52:55 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
13:52:58 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
13:53:00 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
13:53:03 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
13:53:05 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ CSS Color Level 5 review - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2022Aug/0002.html
13:53:08 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ WCAG 2.2 CR review - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2022Aug/0005.html
13:53:16 [Matthew_Atkinson]
zakim, clear the agenda
13:53:16 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
13:53:21 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
13:53:23 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
13:53:26 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
13:53:28 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
13:53:30 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
13:53:33 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ CSS Color Level 5 review - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2022Aug/0002.html
13:53:35 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ WCAG 2.2 CR review - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2022Aug/0005.html
13:53:38 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned
13:53:41 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
13:53:43 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ TPAC22 https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2022
13:53:45 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ Other Business
13:53:48 [Matthew_Atkinson]
agenda+ be done
13:58:00 [becky]
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13:59:26 [niklasegger]
niklasegger has joined #apa
14:00:04 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Lionel_Wolberger has joined #apa
14:00:08 [niklasegger]
present+
14:00:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]
agenda?
14:00:23 [Fazio]
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14:00:43 [Fazio]
Present+
14:01:00 [becky]
present+
14:01:24 [Lionel_Wolberger]
scribe: Lionel_Wolberger
14:01:50 [Roy]
present+
14:03:04 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, next item
14:03:04 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
14:03:08 [nadine]
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14:03:22 [Matthew_Atkinson]
subtopic: Maturity model FPWD CfC - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2022Aug/0001.html
14:03:29 [Fredrik]
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14:03:39 [Fredrik]
present+
14:03:46 [nadine]
present+
14:03:59 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Maturity Model CfC is out! Please have a look and cast your vote, you have until end of week.
14:04:43 [Lionel_Wolberger]
+1 to looking at the maturity model.
14:05:11 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Feel free to file comments, you can flag those comments as not blocking FPWD
14:05:20 [Lionel_Wolberger]
.. or not
14:05:38 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Janina: If you have a blocker to First Public Working Draft, vote -1 on the CfC
14:05:58 [Matthew_Atkinson]
subtopic: Review draft new AGWG Charter - https://raw.githack.com/w3c/wcag/charter-2022/charter.html
14:06:57 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Matthew_Atkinson: They are soliciting feedback. It defines what's in and out of scope for AGWG and other deliverables including group liaisons
14:07:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... please look and provide feedback.
14:07:32 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: Deadline two weeks from today. APA will then report back its comments.
14:07:57 [Matthew_Atkinson]
subtopic: Janina's consulting work
14:08:22 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: I was requested by management to make clear to everyone here in APA
14:08:44 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... having met Lionel on the Adapt call and on this call
14:12:54 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... have entered into a consulting contract with UserWay
14:13:16 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... which started out at very few hours a month, and is now up to less than half a day a week
14:13:28 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... because overlays have been found to be controversial, and UserWay has an overlay product as part of its business
14:13:40 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... important to be fair, impartial and inclusive
14:14:00 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... I personally interpret inclusiveness as also allowing companies that might be controversial to participate
14:14:12 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... there is now a community group
14:14:18 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... hopefully to be announced at a TPAC breakout group
14:14:24 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... to document what kind of things overlays do
14:14:48 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... both what they do poorly and what they do very well
14:14:55 [Matthew_Atkinson]
q?
14:15:00 [Matthew_Atkinson]
q+
14:15:01 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... looking at accessibility on the edge
14:15:11 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... in our regular discussions we discuss many topics
14:15:44 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... for example I have advocated that UserWay consider implementing the Maturity Model
14:16:07 [Lionel_Wolberger]
niklasegger: I would like to participate in these discussions on overlays, but will not be attending TPAC
14:16:08 [Matthew_Atkinson]
ack me
14:17:17 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: Zoom participation will be available for those who can participate via zoom, and a recording will be available
14:17:34 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Matthew_Atkinson: And everyone is welcome to join the accessibility at the edge community group
14:19:38 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Lionel: UserWay is really trying to involve people in these conversations, and the community group is a good vehicle for that
14:19:39 [mike_beganyi]
mike_beganyi has joined #apa
14:19:43 [mike_beganyi]
present+
14:19:49 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... as they are very transparent, in the meetings as well as the minutes
14:20:12 [Matthew_Atkinson]
subtopic: Code of Ethics and Professional Conduct - https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/
14:20:57 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Matthew_Atkinson: This is the quarterly reminder of one of W3C's most important documents, the Code of Ethics and Professional Conduct
14:21:33 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... and an associated community group
14:21:42 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... it is there to resolve problems
14:21:59 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... escalare any problem to the chairs, the community group
14:22:16 [Lionel_Wolberger]
...
14:22:32 [Lionel_Wolberger]
s/escalare/escalate
14:22:37 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, next item
14:22:37 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
14:23:04 [Lionel_Wolberger]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:23:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/10-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
14:23:13 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, close this item
14:23:13 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
14:23:14 [Zakim]
I see 10 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:23:14 [Zakim]
3. A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from Matthew_Atkinson]
14:23:17 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, next item
14:23:17 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
14:23:46 [janina]
present+
14:23:49 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, close this item
14:23:49 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
14:23:49 [Matthew_Atkinson]
presetn+
14:23:51 [Zakim]
I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:23:51 [Zakim]
4. new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html [from Matthew_Atkinson]
14:23:51 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, next item
14:23:51 [Matthew_Atkinson]
present+
14:23:52 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
14:24:08 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, close this item
14:24:08 [Zakim]
agendum 4 closed
14:24:10 [Zakim]
I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:24:10 [Zakim]
5. Task Force & Deliverables Updates [from Matthew_Atkinson]
14:24:11 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, next item
14:24:12 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
14:27:18 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, next item
14:27:18 [Zakim]
agendum 6 -- CSS Color Level 5 review - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2022Aug/0002.html -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
14:28:28 [Lionel_Wolberger]
s/Zoom participation will be available/Zoom participation is be available
14:29:51 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Matthew_Atkinson: The bulk of our suggestions regard the use of color in the presentation of this document
14:30:07 [janina]
q?
14:36:56 [Lionel_Wolberger]
David: We would like to pay attention to possible trigger words in the color palette
14:37:27 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... trigger words for mental health accessibility
14:38:00 [Lionel_Wolberger]
s/mental health/health
14:38:09 [Lionel_Wolberger]
rrsagent make minutes
14:38:27 [Lionel_Wolberger]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:38:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/10-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
14:39:23 [Lionel_Wolberger]
s/please look and provide feedback/please look and provide feedback this week
14:39:27 [Lionel_Wolberger]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:39:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/10-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
14:42:44 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Matthew_Atkinson: (Walked through and discussed the details of his comment with APA)
14:42:52 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: I find this should be an APA comment
14:45:11 [Lionel_Wolberger]
RESOLUTION: APA will run a CfC to make Matthew_Atkinson's CSS comments (with proposed revisions) an APA comment
14:45:23 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, next item
14:45:23 [Zakim]
agendum 7 -- WCAG 2.2 CR review - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2022Aug/0005.html -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
14:45:32 [Lionel_Wolberger]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:45:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/10-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
14:45:35 [janina]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2022Aug/0005.html
14:47:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: This comment seems unrealistic and makes WCAG look like it does not know what is going on the world
14:47:46 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... the issue, https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/2305
14:48:01 [Lionel_Wolberger]
q+
14:48:01 [Francis_Storr]
Francis_Storr has joined #apa
14:48:39 [Matthew_Atkinson]
q+
14:50:06 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: To be clear, I am speaking as an invited expert to W3C (and not as an advisor to UserWay)
14:50:33 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... though it did come up in conversations with Lionel
14:50:51 [Matthew_Atkinson]
The issue is with the "Sometimes" that starts ยง5.4: https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#conformance-partial
14:51:00 [Matthew_Atkinson]
ack Lionel_Wolberger
14:51:00 [Matthew_Atkinson]
ack me
14:51:06 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Lionel: we are looking at this, https://www.w3.org/TR/accessibility-conformance-challenges/#Challenge-2
14:53:59 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Matthew_Atkinson: Does anyone have an objection to the word 'sometimes' in that paragraph?
14:54:13 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... I heard objections
14:54:31 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: We agreed that 'sometimes' is not acceptable to APA
14:54:53 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... janina suggests increasingly, but the exponential curve was objected to
14:54:59 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... others suggested, 'many'
14:55:11 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Matthew_Atkinson: we can discuss it over the next week, and this is an issue we want to resolve
14:55:35 [Lionel_Wolberger]
becky: Propose, avoid the adjective and just start with 'later web pages...'
14:55:47 [Lionel_Wolberger]
s/Propose/I propose
14:55:53 [Lionel_Wolberger]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:55:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/10-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
14:57:05 [Matthew_Atkinson]
s/Propose, avoid/As proposed at the end of the comment, avoid/
14:57:13 [Matthew_Atkinson]
rrsagent make minutes
14:57:19 [Matthew_Atkinson]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:57:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/10-apa-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
14:57:47 [Matthew_Atkinson]
Note: latest comment at time of meeting: https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/2305#issuecomment-1209655125
14:57:48 [Matthew_Atkinson]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:57:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/10-apa-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
14:59:48 [Lionel_Wolberger]
s/https:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/accessibility-conformance-challenges\/#Challenge-2\/[link]
14:59:51 [Lionel_Wolberger]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:59:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/10-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
15:00:52 [Lionel_Wolberger]
present+
15:00:57 [Lionel_Wolberger]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:00:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/10-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
15:02:57 [janina]
janina has left #apa
16:14:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]
s/consider implementing/get more involved with/
16:14:43 [Lionel_Wolberger]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:14:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/10-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
16:19:34 [Lionel_Wolberger]
s/the Maturity Model/other APA projects
16:19:37 [Lionel_Wolberger]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:19:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/10-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
17:36:39 [Francis_Storr]
Francis_Storr has joined #apa
18:50:59 [MichaelC]
s/advocated/suggested/
18:51:03 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:51:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/10-apa-minutes.html MichaelC
19:49:32 [Francis_Storr]
Francis_Storr has joined #apa