Meeting minutes
This meeting
Nigel: TPAC update, DAPT, Rechartering, and possibly a couple of issues.
Philippe: Rechartering would be good first
Nigel: AOB, or anything to make sure we cover?
<atsushi> (will join shortly after i18n call ends)
group: No
Rechartering
Nigel: I believe we're currently out of Charter, the extension has expired I think
Philippe: That could be fixed, but to do that, let me check my board...
… Yes it expired end of June, so you can't publish at the moment.
… So we need an extension, as the minimum bar.
… How long? Where are you guys with the FO on the AC review? Are you done with your conversations?
… Did you resolve your FOs?
Nigel: We resolved the FO with Google, and accepted the request from Adobe, but we have
<plh>
Nigel: not resolved the FO with Apple.
Philippe: There was also an FO from Mozilla that arrived late, and mainly concurred with Apple.
… If you didn't resolve with Apple then most likely you didn't resolve with Mozilla.
Nigel: I don't agree:
… 1. It looked like Google's and Apple's objections were almost the same, but we resolved Google's and that
… did not satisfy Apple.
… 2. We haven't talked to Mozilla because their FO was out of the review period.
… Nevertheless I assume it is reasonable to conclude that if we were to satisfy Google's and Apple's objection
… then it's very unlikely that Mozilla would continue to object.
Philippe: Alright. At the minimum you have the Apple FO.
Nigel: Apple had an action from a while back to generate some alternative proposals.
… I emailed them on 2022-07-19 to ask for progress, but they haven't got back to us.
… We have one strong view that we shouldn't accept Apple's on-the-table proposal to reinstate
… old "should" wording, because it postpones an important discussion until CR exit and
… puts process discussions into the charter domain.
Philippe: It doesn't hurt you to ask the Director because it is going to take some time.
… I would recommend that you go to the Director now, because you haven't got consensus.
Nigel: Note that Gary isn't on the call.
Andreas: Last time we discussed this issue there was a compromise idea about the
… number of implementations that are needed, which is the controversial part,
… and to accept Apple's request but make an explicit exception for IMSC-HRM which has the most
… concerns in the group.
… Where did we get to with that?
Nigel: I haven't done anything with that, but from discussions, my understanding is that it won't
… satisfy Apple, who will likely respond that it simply shouldn't be on the Rec track if that is the case.
… We don't know if it would satisfy Apple but it seems unlikely, so I'm not sure it gets us anywhere.
Philippe: Fine for you to discuss with Gary. If you want to publish you'll need an extension.
Nigel: Yes please, otherwise we can't merge PRs on e.g. DAPT
Philippe: 3 or 6 months?
Nigel: 6 months - given how long this is taking
Philippe: OK, 6 months. The Director may pick it up sooner if this isn't resolved yet.
… Atsushi, can you agenda+ w3m to request a 6 month extension.
Atsushi: Yes, and request Director/FO Council?
Philippe: Director first, who makes the call, but right now, request extension 6 months.
… Nigel, if you manage to talk with Gary and agree to bring to the Director, let me know any time.
Nigel: Will do.
Philippe: I've got to go, thank you, bye everyone.
[Philippe leaves]
TPAC update
Nigel: TPAC registration is open and for those to whom it applies there's an early bird discount
… for early registrations, so please do register even if you only want to attend remotely.
… There's also an inclusion fund that I emailed details of, in case that's relevant to anyone.
Nigel: I put details of the planned agendas in the agenda for this meeting:
… Thursday 8:00-10:00 TTWG & MEIG joint meeting
… Thursday 10:30-12:30 TTWG
… Friday 8:00-13:30 TTWG & Media WG joint meeting
… and agendas so far:
…
… Media WG:
… Behaviour with controls
… Video element updates around shadow DOM and containing content
…
… MEIG:
… Audio Description and Dubbing
… Subtitle document rendering complexity
…
… Any other topics for us or for joint meetings, let me and Gary know, or speak up now?
… By the way, I will be there in person, all being well.
DAPT
Nigel: We have a good set of issues open, which I hoped we could cover today,
… but I'm not sure we can without Cyril, for the time being.
… One thing he did say to me, in relation to the IMSC 1.1 basis, is that he agreed with my comment.
Is the basis for DAPT IMSC 1.1 or is it an independent spec with common provisions? w3c/dapt#5
github: https://
Nigel: I pointed out that IMSC has constraints that prevent it being extended with TTML2 features
… not listed, so we cannot make DAPT formally based on IMSC, or extended from it.
… Any extra features would make it non-conformant with IMSC.
… Cyril said he agreed with this point.
… I think the implication is we need to change that wording, so I'll look at taking that on.
Andreas: When I saw this comment, I also wondered about the constraints in IMSC.
… You may be right in terms of adding explicit other TTML features,
… but it's fine to add other vocabulary, so it would not be non-conformant.
… But to require IMSC to be a proper subset, maybe it needs some changes.
Nigel: That's my understanding too.
DAPT-REQs
Nigel: I've not had any feedback about the DAPT-REQs yet, but I have had contact from
… one implementer who is very interested and I've asked if they have any specific requirements changes.
Timed Text in Low Latency Streaming applications
Andreas: I think we need Mike Dolan on the call to discuss the requirements and how to proceed.
Nigel: Agreed.
AOB
Nigel: Just want to mention that the BBC Subtitle Guidelines have been moved, yesterday.
New location for the BBC Subtitle Guidelines
Nigel: They're also even more accessible than they were before.
… Old links will redirect into the same place in the document they went to before.
Meeting close
Nigel: Thanks everyone, next call is scheduled for 4th August, regrets from me for then.
… [adjourns meeting]