15:00:21 RRSAgent has joined #tt 15:00:21 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/07/21-tt-irc 15:00:24 RRSAgent, make logs Public 15:00:26 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 15:00:54 scribe: nigel 15:00:58 calvaris has joined #tt 15:01:03 Present: Andreas, Nigel 15:01:08 Present+ Philippe 15:03:00 plh has joined #tt 15:03:16 Present+ Xabier 15:03:27 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/222 15:03:35 atai has joined #tt 15:03:38 Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-tt-minutes.html 15:04:07 Topic: This meeting 15:04:30 Nigel: TPAC update, DAPT, Rechartering, and possibly a couple of issues. 15:04:45 Philippe: Rechartering would be good first 15:04:55 Nigel: AOB, or anything to make sure we cover? 15:05:01 (will join shortly after i18n call ends) 15:05:03 group: No 15:05:13 Regrets: Cyril, Gary 15:05:49 Topic: Rechartering 15:06:08 Nigel: I believe we're currently out of Charter, the extension has expired I think 15:06:20 Philippe: That could be fixed, but to do that, let me check my board... 15:06:43 .. Yes it expired end of June, so you can't publish at the moment. 15:06:48 .. So we need an extension, as the minimum bar. 15:07:03 .. How long? Where are you guys with the FO on the AC review? Are you done with your conversations? 15:07:09 .. Did you resolve your FOs? 15:07:34 Nigel: We resolved the FO with Google, and accepted the request from Adobe, but we have 15:07:39 --> https://www.w3.org/Member/wiki/DirectorFOdashboard#Timed_Text_Working_Group_charter Director's dashboard 15:07:41 .. not resolved the FO with Apple. 15:08:10 Philippe: There was also an FO from Mozilla that arrived late, and mainly concurred with Apple. 15:08:27 .. If you didn't resolve with Apple then most likely you didn't resolve with Apple. 15:08:32 Nigel: I don't agree: 15:08:50 .. 1. It looked like Google's and Apple's objections were almost the same, but we resolved Google's and that 15:08:55 .. did not satisfy Apple. 15:09:15 .. 2. We haven't talked to Mozilla because their FO was out of the review period. 15:09:37 .. Nevertheless I assume it is reasonable to conclude that if were to satisfy Google's and Apple's objection 15:09:44 .. then it's very unlikely that Mozilla would continue to object. 15:10:00 Philippe: Alright. At the minimum you have the Apple FO. 15:10:19 Nigel: Apple had an action from a while back to generate some alternative proposals. 15:10:43 .. I emailed them on 2022-07-19 to ask for progress, but they haven't got back to us. 15:12:40 .. We have one strong view that we shouldn't accept Apple's on-the-table proposal to reinstate 15:12:54 present+ 15:13:02 .. old "should" wording, because it postpones an important discussion until CR exit and 15:13:10 .. puts process discussions into the charter domain. 15:13:25 Philippe: It doesn't hurt you to ask you to the Director because it is going to take some time. 15:13:37 .. I would recommend that you go to the Director now, because you haven't got consensus. 15:13:40 q+ 15:13:56 Nigel: Note that Gary isn't on the call. 15:13:59 ack atai 15:14:10 Andreas: Last time we discussed this issue there was a compromise idea about the 15:14:18 .. number of implementations that are needed, which is the controversial part, 15:14:35 .. and to accept Apple's request but make an explicit exception for IMSC-HRM which has the most 15:14:39 .. concerns in the group. 15:14:44 .. Where did we get to with that? 15:15:03 Nigel: I haven't done anything with that, but from discussions, my understanding is that it won't 15:15:24 .. satisfy Apple, who will likely respond that it simply shouldn't be on the Rec track if that is the case. 15:15:51 .. We don't know if it would satisfy Apple but it seems unlikely, so I'm not sure it gets us anywhere. 15:17:10 Philippe: Fine for you to discuss with Gary. If you want to publish you'll need an extension. 15:17:18 Nigel: Yes please, otherwise we can't merge PRs on e.g. DAPT 15:17:25 Philippe: 3 or 6 months? 15:17:36 Nigel: 6 months - given how long this is taking 15:17:54 Philippe: OK, 6 months. The Director may pick it up sooner if this isn't resolved yet. 15:18:14 .. Atsushi, can you agenda+ w3m to request a 6 month extension. 15:18:51 Atsushi: Yes, and request Director/FO Council? 15:19:07 Philippe: Director first, who makes the call, but right now, request extension 6 months. 15:19:22 .. Nigel, if you manage to talk with Gary and agree to bring to the Director, let me know any time. 15:19:24 Nigel: Will do. 15:20:50 Philippe: I've got to go, thank you, bye everyone. 15:20:58 [Philippe leaves] 15:21:13 Topic: TPAC update 15:21:28 .. TPAC registration is open and for those to whom it applies there's an early bird discount 15:21:45 .. for early registrations, so please do register even if you only want to attend remotely. 15:22:04 .. There's also an inclusion fund that I emailed details of, in case that's relevant to anyone. 15:22:34 -> https://www.w3.org/register/tpac2022/form TPAC registration form 15:23:09 .. I put details of the planned agendas in the agenda for this meeting: 15:23:21 .. Thursday 8:00-10:00 TTWG & MEIG joint meeting 15:23:32 .. Thursday 10:30-12:30 TTWG 15:23:40 .. Friday 8:00-13:30 TTWG & Media WG joint meeting 15:23:45 .. and agendas so far: 15:23:50 .. Media WG: 15:23:59 .. Behaviour with controls 15:24:11 .. Video element updates around shadow DOM and containing content 15:24:15 .. MEIG: 15:24:24 .. Audio Description and Dubbing 15:24:30 .. Subtitle document rendering complexity 15:24:32 .. 15:24:52 .. Any other topics for us or for joint meetings, let me and Gary know, or speak up now? 15:25:21 .. By the way, I will be there in person, all being well. 15:26:03 Topic: DAPT 15:26:12 Nigel: We have a good set of issues open, which I hoped we could cover today, 15:26:26 .. but I'm not sure we can without Cyril, for the time being. 15:26:40 .. One thing he did say to me, in relation to the IMSC 1.1 basis, is that he agreed with my comment. 15:27:15 Subtopic: Is the basis for DAPT IMSC 1.1 or is it an independent spec with common provisions? w3c/dapt#5 15:27:21 github: https://github.com/w3c/dapt/issues/5 15:27:49 Nigel: I pointed out that IMSC has constraints that prevent it being extended with TTML2 features 15:28:02 .. not listed, so we cannot make DAPT formally based on IMSC, or extended from it. 15:28:13 .. Any extra features would make it non-conformant with IMSC. 15:28:23 .. Cyril said he agreed with this point. 15:28:38 .. I think the implication is we need to change that wording, so I'll look at taking that on. 15:28:59 q+ 15:28:59 Subtopic: DAPT-REQs 15:29:04 ack atai 15:29:15 Andreas: When I saw this comment, I also wondered about the constraints in IMSC. 15:29:25 .. You may be right in terms of adding explicit other TTML features, 15:29:34 .. but it's fine to add other vocabulary, so it would not be non-conformant. 15:29:51 .. But to require IMSC to be a proper subset, maybe it needs some changes. 15:29:58 Nigel: That's my understanding too. 15:30:10 s/Subtopic: DAPT-REQs// 15:30:17 Subtopic: DAPT-REQs 15:30:33 Nigel: I've not had any feedback about the DAPT-REQs yet, but I have had contact from 15:30:52 .. one implementer who is very interested and I've asked if they have any specific requirements changes. 15:32:58 Topic: Timed Text in Low Latency Streaming applications 15:33:13 Andreas: I think we need Mike Dolan on the call to discuss the requirements and how to proceed. 15:33:15 Nigel: Agreed. 15:34:47 Topic: AOB 15:35:44 Nigel: Just want to mention that the BBC Subtitle Guidelines have been moved, yesterday. 15:36:01 -> https://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/forproducts/guides/subtitles/ New location for the BBC Subtitle Guidelines 15:36:15 .. They're also even more accessible than they were before. 15:36:27 .. Old links will redirect into the same place in the document they went to before. 15:36:40 Topic: Meeting close 15:37:10 .. Thanks everyone, next call is scheduled for 4th August, regrets from me for then. 15:37:17 .. [adjourns meeting] 15:37:21 rrsagent, make minutes 15:37:21 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/21-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:37:53 Chair: Nigel 15:38:17 s/.. TPAC registration is open/Nigel: TPAC registration is open 15:38:25 rrsagent, make minutes 15:38:25 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/21-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:39:35 s/If you didn't resolve with Apple then most likely you didn't resolve with Apple./If you didn't resolve with Apple then most likely you didn't resolve with Mozilla. 15:40:21 s/that if were to satisfy/that if we were to satisfy 15:40:50 s/hurt you to ask you to/hurt you to ask 15:43:08 i/.. MEIG/.. 15:43:17 i/.. Media WG/.. 15:43:21 rrsagent, make minutes 15:43:21 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/21-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:46:39 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 15:46:44 zakim, end meeting 15:46:44 As of this point the attendees have been Andreas, Nigel, Philippe, Xabier, atsushi 15:46:46 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 15:46:46 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/21-tt-minutes.html Zakim 15:46:49 I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 15:46:54 Zakim has left #tt 15:59:54 rrsagent, excuse us 15:59:54 I see no action items