IRC log of coga on 2022-07-21
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:04:47 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #coga
- 13:04:47 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/07/21-coga-irc
- 13:04:49 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 13:04:52 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
- 13:04:52 [trackbot]
- Date: 21 July 2022
- 13:05:45 [Lisa]
- agenda https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UAFHZuxmyhYAjZZyWxp_rvhIHuXmeWQosgVZD5LcxmM/edit#heading=h.pnntvdf9fs4e
- 13:05:59 [Lisa]
- agenda: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UAFHZuxmyhYAjZZyWxp_rvhIHuXmeWQosgVZD5LcxmM/edit#heading=h.pnntvdf9fs4e
- 13:06:08 [Lisa]
- agenda+ https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UAFHZuxmyhYAjZZyWxp_rvhIHuXmeWQosgVZD5LcxmM/edit#heading=h.pnntvdf9fs4e
- 13:06:16 [Lisa]
- agenda?
- 13:06:37 [Lisa]
- clear agenda
- 13:06:47 [Lisa]
- Agenda+ Check in with all sub-groups and COGA Action Items Does anyone need pending agenda items?
- 13:06:58 [Lisa]
- clear agenda
- 13:07:25 [Lisa]
- Agenda+ Check in with all sub-groups and COGA Action Items https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit
- 13:07:36 [Lisa]
- Agenda+ Draft from the who https://www.research.net/r/WHOReportHealthEquityPWDs Deadline August 5
- 13:07:47 [Lisa]
- Agenda+ Reminder send the survey for UXR
- 13:07:57 [Lisa]
- Agenda+ Review resolutions from ftf. See https://www.w3.org/2022/07/12-coga-minutes.html
- 13:08:14 [Lisa]
- Agenda+ Who will be at tpac
- 13:08:24 [Lisa]
- Agenda+ Finish functional needs review https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ndRziXRfnyAgDaL8ctByQagDdM36H8QxV44lO3u8zgc/edit#
- 13:18:58 [Lisa]
- regrets
- 13:19:00 [Lisa]
- Survey link (public): https://bit.ly/content-usable-v2 Link to survey results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1s2mqTweqrNmB4gSSfC3I-rx31Gl8OJPAUW1v9_gVsSc/edit#responses
- 13:30:40 [Lisa]
- regrets+ arron, shawn (partial)
- 13:34:35 [Lisa]
- sign up to scribe: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list
- 13:56:10 [Jennie]
- Jennie has joined #coga
- 13:59:17 [Lisa]
- Scribe: Jennie
- 13:59:24 [Jennie]
- present+
- 13:59:27 [ShawnT]
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- 13:59:51 [Lisa]
- zakim, next item
- 13:59:51 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- Check in with all sub-groups and COGA Action Items https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit -- taken up [from Lisa]
- 14:00:25 [Rain]
- Rain has joined #coga
- 14:00:33 [Rain]
- present+
- 14:00:46 [rashmi]
- rashmi has joined #coga
- 14:00:54 [Lisa]
- actions : https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#
- 14:00:55 [Jennie]
- Lisa: We are keeping the updates short today
- 14:01:09 [Jennie]
- Shawn: Update on the test group
- 14:01:15 [Jennie]
- ...Jennie and I met to organize, and get ready
- 14:01:25 [Jennie]
- ...We are organizing the Google Drive folder
- 14:01:31 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Becca_Monteleone has joined #coga
- 14:01:31 [Jennie]
- ...Our next step is to review the documents
- 14:01:38 [rashmi]
- present+
- 14:01:40 [Jennie]
- ...Our future meetings
- 14:01:40 [Becca_Monteleone]
- present+
- 14:02:13 [Le]
- Le has joined #coga
- 14:02:19 [Jennie]
- Lisa: I saw your requests. The only one doesn't work for the end of August
- 14:02:20 [Le]
- present+
- 14:02:23 [Jennie]
- Shawn: OK, those should work
- 14:02:43 [EA]
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- 14:02:44 [Jennie]
- ...We have tried to create some asynchronous work tasks
- 14:02:53 [Jennie]
- ...Jennie and I will meet, review to be sure work is getting done
- 14:03:02 [Jennie]
- ...Then we will meet with the group, task out the work
- 14:03:08 [Jennie]
- Lisa: Thank you, that sounds good
- 14:03:22 [Lisa]
- actions : https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#
- 14:03:32 [ShawnT]
- present+
- 14:03:35 [Jennie]
- ...We are starting with actions, trying to keep it brief
- 14:04:01 [Jennie]
- ...One suggestion for subgroups: we are each meeting about once per month
- 14:04:10 [EA]
- present+
- 14:04:16 [Jennie]
- ...It would be great to meet sometimes as a follow on meeting mid month when your group can do it
- 14:04:23 [Jennie]
- ...Not in the slot on Thursday
- 14:04:28 [Jennie]
- ...This will help tasks move faster
- 14:04:36 [Jennie]
- ...Mental health group?
- 14:04:45 [Jennie]
- ...I don't think there are important updates
- 14:05:02 [Jennie]
- ...We are finishing off the analysis - literary review. We want to finish by the beginning of October
- 14:05:09 [Jennie]
- ...We need everyone to have their papers done by then.
- 14:05:22 [Jennie]
- ...We had a great session at the conference
- 14:05:33 [Jennie]
- ...Structural review for Content Usable has a meeting after this
- 14:05:43 [krisanne]
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- 14:05:52 [Lisa]
- Survey: https://forms.gle/J4gJ2timJwwxS4Jc7
- 14:05:58 [Jennie]
- Rain: We are still trying to get the outreach on the form to go beyond
- 14:06:01 [Jennie]
- ...I created an outreach spreadsheet
- 14:06:03 [Rain]
- Outreach spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xXjHPCfWm00iAJqmjdwFq_RQ80vKwwxFAoiEGI3NOlM/edit#gid=0
- 14:06:10 [Jennie]
- Lisa: We have an agenda item on that topic
- 14:06:27 [Jennie]
- Rain: We have analytics from Roy we can start looking at
- 14:06:34 [Jennie]
- Lisa: well done on getting out the survey
- 14:06:37 [Jennie]
- ...Clear Language
- 14:07:05 [Jennie]
- Julie: I am getting ready to send out a document to the team with a thought starter for test type for each of the patterns in Silver
- 14:07:10 [Jennie]
- ...This was Rachael's recommendation
- 14:07:19 [Jennie]
- ...For those that have a clear yes or no answer
- 14:07:28 [Jennie]
- ...Then for patterns that are harder to test using this method
- 14:07:38 [Jennie]
- ...What would be better suited for a procedural test or a protocol
- 14:07:49 [Jennie]
- ...What did the organization that created the page - what did they do?
- 14:07:55 [Jennie]
- ...What is their policy? Their process?
- 14:08:01 [Jennie]
- ...Checking this as opposed to the output
- 14:08:13 [Jennie]
- ...I will send out to the team some ideas to begin to think about
- 14:08:20 [Jennie]
- ...When is the next Clear Language meeting?
- 14:08:35 [Jennie]
- ...I cannot attend the meeting next week
- 14:09:03 [Jennie]
- Lisa: Can the Test Plan meet along with the Clear Language group?
- 14:09:31 [Jennie]
- Julie: This may be a good thing for the test plan group to debate
- 14:09:38 [Jennie]
- ...This will help with the Clear Language for Silver
- 14:09:44 [kirkwood]
- +1 to both meeting
- 14:09:56 [kirkwood]
- present+
- 14:09:57 [Jennie]
- Lisa: I am asking if they want to move their meeting to August 4th?
- 14:09:59 [Jennie]
- q?
- 14:10:18 [julierawe]
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- 14:10:21 [julierawe]
- present+
- 14:10:27 [Jennie]
- ack Jennie
- 14:11:39 [Jennie]
- Lisa: OK it will be mental health next week, then test plans the week of August 4th
- 14:11:44 [Jennie]
- ...Thank you Shawn for your flexibility
- 14:12:08 [Lisa]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu0WYcvCpp-zIz2NzPk2AuTJOrzgh3T4sKQgzCa10ps/edit#
- 14:12:17 [Jennie]
- ...We have a document online that is a summary for what we think the research plan - outline
- 14:12:27 [Jennie]
- ...1st is background
- 14:12:34 [Jennie]
- ...Creating a survey, providing the background
- 14:12:53 [Jennie]
- ...Finding synergies is what I would like to report back to the larger group
- 14:13:19 [Jennie]
- ...Ph.D. students can use this as part of their research
- 14:13:26 [Jennie]
- ...Le had good ideas on working with people
- 14:13:47 [Jennie]
- ...I need to take to the W3C coordination group how we do it, what's the right way to go about working with people doing their Ph.D's
- 14:13:56 [Lisa]
- Q?
- 14:14:05 [Jennie]
- ...If people have other suggestions, that would be fantastic
- 14:14:19 [Jennie]
- ...If you have any ideas on groups - we have great suggestions already.
- 14:14:44 [Jennie]
- ...Recruiting people like that would be fantastic
- 14:14:49 [Jennie]
- ...Have a look at the outline
- 14:14:57 [Jennie]
- ...The foundational research will be really important
- 14:15:08 [Jennie]
- ...Then the gap analysis will let us know what research is necessary
- 14:15:19 [Lisa]
- Q?
- 14:15:20 [Jennie]
- ...The note can be after the second version of Content Usable
- 14:15:31 [Jennie]
- ...Images subgroup
- 14:15:57 [Jennie]
- Jennie: no updates
- 14:16:12 [Jennie]
- Lisa: I think we should do subgroup updates every one week, and member updates on the opposite week
- 14:16:28 [Rain]
- +1
- 14:16:29 [Jennie]
- ...And if we are meeting every 2 weeks, does that sound ok to the subgroup leaders
- 14:16:33 [Jennie]
- +1
- 14:16:37 [julierawe]
- +1
- 14:16:47 [Jennie]
- Lisa: OK, I am seeing agreement on that
- 14:16:58 [Jennie]
- ...Rain is working on the APA issue 264
- 14:17:03 [Jennie]
- ...Next week we will have something
- 14:17:12 [Jennie]
- ...There is a draft from the WHO that I sent to the list
- 14:17:21 [Lisa]
- https://www.who.int/news-room/events/detail/2022/07/18/default-calendar/call-for-feedback-on-the-draft-who-global-report-on-health-equity-for-persons-with-disabilities
- 14:17:38 [Jennie]
- Lisa: We are not making a response as COGA
- 14:17:55 [Jennie]
- ...If you want to make individual responses, we can discuss it next week
- 14:18:05 [Jennie]
- ...Does that work?
- 14:18:24 [Jennie]
- ...EO
- 14:18:41 [Jennie]
- Julie: I updated the COGA document, noting I had sent the side by side comparison to EO on July 12
- 14:18:53 [Jennie]
- ...Kevin was on vacation, so we are waiting for a response
- 14:19:06 [Jennie]
- ...I am still drafting our responses to EO's revised personal stories
- 14:19:19 [Jennie]
- ...I will send that to the COGA team to review, before sending it to EO
- 14:19:22 [Jennie]
- Lisa: Thank you
- 14:19:29 [Jennie]
- ...Do you want to update the action there?
- 14:19:49 [Jennie]
- ...I think we will stop the actions there
- 14:20:07 [Jennie]
- ...There are actions from the face to face - a lot is approaching people who might be doing literary reviews
- 14:20:12 [Jennie]
- ...That we may want to reference, or use
- 14:20:49 [Jennie]
- ...Anyone doing literary reviews for the mental health research group - reach out to Rain and myself if you have any questions
- 14:21:01 [Lisa]
- zakim, next item
- 14:21:01 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- Draft from the who https://www.research.net/r/WHOReportHealthEquityPWDs Deadline August 5 -- taken up [from Lisa]
- 14:21:12 [Lisa]
- close item 2
- 14:21:17 [Lisa]
- zakim, next item
- 14:21:17 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- Reminder send the survey for UXR -- taken up [from Lisa]
- 14:21:29 [Jennie]
- Lisa: This survey needs to be sent out
- 14:21:41 [Jennie]
- Rain: We need people to send this out - you, everyone on this call
- 14:21:46 [Jennie]
- ...Also communities that you work with
- 14:22:00 [Rain]
- Survey outreach tracker: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xXjHPCfWm00iAJqmjdwFq_RQ80vKwwxFAoiEGI3NOlM/edit#gid=0
- 14:22:01 [Jennie]
- ...When we have the community group next week I will be asking them to share with their communities as well
- 14:22:22 [Jennie]
- ...This spreadsheet (linked above) - when you send out to someone please share when you sent it, to whom you sent it
- 14:22:28 [Jennie]
- ...There is a column for resending
- 14:22:49 [Jennie]
- ...The deadline for responding to the survey is set to September 15th because a lot of people are away from their computer because of summer
- 14:22:57 [Jennie]
- ...We should resend again in early September
- 14:23:12 [Jennie]
- ...This will also helps us keep track of the communities we are sending to, and who has access to those communities
- 14:23:19 [rashmi]
- q+
- 14:23:19 [Jennie]
- ...This will help for future surveys
- 14:23:26 [Jennie]
- ...We also have a blurb at the top in row 1
- 14:23:33 [Jennie]
- ...You can copy and edit this to share the survey
- 14:23:43 [Jennie]
- ...The direct link to the survey has a bit.ly short link
- 14:23:44 [Rain]
- Direct link to the survey: https://bit.ly/content-usable-v2
- 14:24:12 [Jennie]
- Rain: I was advised by some that saw the bit.ly that some won't click on this link because they won't know where it is going
- 14:24:17 [kirkwood]
- could we put direct link in there a link to the survey in the outreach record ?
- 14:24:22 [Jennie]
- ...you can say that this links to a Google form
- 14:24:44 [kirkwood]
- oh ok thanks!
- 14:24:46 [Jennie]
- ...John K is asking if we can put a direct link , and yes, I will add it there as well
- 14:25:09 [Jennie]
- ...We want to try to end the survey on September 15
- 14:25:18 [Jennie]
- ...A number of people have shared on LinkedIn
- 14:25:32 [Jennie]
- ...That only goes to the country you are in, or the people that follow you
- 14:25:45 [Jennie]
- ...This is why we mostly have people responding from the US and Canada
- 14:25:57 [Jennie]
- ...For those on the call not in the US and Canada - please post on your networks as well
- 14:26:11 [Jennie]
- ...I would like to see over 200 responses - we have 46 now
- 14:26:33 [Jennie]
- Lisa: This is a great survey. If only Rain sends it out, there is a large number of Google responders
- 14:26:34 [Jennie]
- q+
- 14:26:52 [Rain]
- Huge +1 to Lisa's comment. The results are very biased right now!
- 14:26:54 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 14:27:00 [Jennie]
- Rashmi: When I posted it on LinkedIn I got great feedback
- 14:27:23 [Jennie]
- ...They want to provide feedback about the structure about the document. They want to connect personally
- 14:27:29 [Jennie]
- ...Who should I connect them with?
- 14:27:49 [Jennie]
- Rain: It would be great if you could make that connection between me and those individuals, and share what they are sharing
- 14:27:52 [Jennie]
- Rashmi: Great
- 14:28:16 [Jennie]
- Rain: As a group - there are some things that we had to do in the form that are not cognitively accessible because of how research is done in terms of disclosure
- 14:28:22 [Jennie]
- ...Great feedback has been received
- 14:28:36 [Jennie]
- ...If any of the feedback is around this, I can share with the group, and this is good feedback to get
- 14:28:55 [Jennie]
- Lisa: I am taking a note
- 14:29:09 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 14:29:12 [Jennie]
- ...When we make feedback, we need a way to provide feedback that doesn't require writing at all
- 14:29:29 [Lisa]
- well done jenny
- 14:29:42 [julierawe]
- Way to go, Jenny!
- 14:29:54 [Lisa]
- fantastic
- 14:29:54 [Rain]
- Thank you, Jennie! Please add to the outreach spreadsheet when you have the chance: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xXjHPCfWm00iAJqmjdwFq_RQ80vKwwxFAoiEGI3NOlM/edit#gid=0
- 14:29:56 [julierawe]
- I mean Jennie :)
- 14:29:56 [ShawnT]
- +1 to julierawe
- 14:30:11 [Becca_Monteleone]
- For future surveys - I have some experience making both informed consent documents and data collection cogntiively accessible - at least on the academic research side.
- 14:30:28 [Lisa]
- zakim, next item
- 14:30:28 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- Review resolutions from ftf. See https://www.w3.org/2022/07/12-coga-minutes.html -- taken up [from Lisa]
- 14:30:37 [Jennie]
- Jennie: I shared the information about the survey in the Office of Accessibility newsletter - link is posted to the list. This went to 2481 subscribers
- 14:30:52 [Jennie]
- Lisa: I want to get to the functional review
- 14:31:01 [Jennie]
- ...Let's get these done in 1 or 2 minutes
- 14:31:09 [Jennie]
- ...The Face to Face was a great meeting
- 14:31:22 [Jennie]
- ...The other thing we had - if people want to click on the minutes
- 14:31:28 [Jennie]
- ...We had one resolution
- 14:31:42 [Jennie]
- ...In Content Usable - this may be a structural issue
- 14:31:52 [Jennie]
- ...People are confusing the name of the pattern with the what to do section
- 14:32:05 [Jennie]
- ...The "what to do" was done to help direct people to what to do
- 14:32:12 [Jennie]
- ...The names were chosen with lots of considerations
- 14:32:19 [Jennie]
- ...Including do they fit in the nav bar at the side
- 14:32:26 [Jennie]
- ...With that result, they are inaccurate
- 14:32:38 [Jennie]
- ...We need to think about - is that ok? Do we need to rename the patterns?
- 14:32:58 [Jennie]
- ...When we are doing things like using them in methods, in Silver
- 14:33:05 [Jennie]
- ...Please don't use the name, use the pattern
- 14:33:09 [Jennie]
- ...In Clear Language
- 14:33:27 [Jennie]
- ...Avoid double negatives - the actual pattern is not to use double negatives to express a positive
- 14:33:31 [Jennie]
- ...This helps with internationalization
- 14:33:38 [Jennie]
- ...We haven't found a language for which this isn't true
- 14:34:01 [Jennie]
- ...The resolution was
- 14:34:06 [Jennie]
- ...When writing a pattern method
- 14:34:22 [Jennie]
- ...And changing objective names, or the pattern to something else - that has to come back to the group, the bigger group
- 14:34:38 [Jennie]
- ...They need a chance to say "hang on, I remember why we didn't do that in the 1st place"
- 14:34:51 [Jennie]
- ...And they may say "we didn't do that because"...
- 14:34:54 [kirkwood]
- q+
- 14:34:56 [Jennie]
- ...That's a resolution
- 14:35:03 [Jennie]
- ...If people aren't happy with that, we can revisit it.
- 14:35:07 [Jennie]
- ...It seems sensible to me
- 14:35:27 [Jennie]
- ...As a consensus group, we need to bounce these things off of the group
- 14:35:30 [Jennie]
- q?
- 14:35:36 [Lisa]
- zakim, next item
- 14:35:36 [Zakim]
- I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Lisa
- 14:35:41 [julierawe]
- q+
- 14:35:45 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 14:36:00 [Jennie]
- Lisa: John are you on mute?
- 14:36:09 [Jennie]
- ...John we will come back to you
- 14:36:13 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 14:36:37 [Jennie]
- Julie: I totally get the point about needing to be more specific about double negatives to express a positive
- 14:36:50 [Jennie]
- ...In the current Content Usable, the name is Avoid...
- 14:37:01 [Jennie]
- Lisa: Yes, the names got edited.
- 14:37:10 [Jennie]
- ...They were made to fit in the left hand navigation bar
- 14:37:13 [Jennie]
- ...They are not accurate
- 14:37:21 [Jennie]
- ...In the What to do section, they are accurate
- 14:37:25 [Jennie]
- ...Don't rely on the pattern name
- 14:37:30 [Jennie]
- ...Maybe we need to review these
- 14:37:52 [Jennie]
- ...In the described by section - the description got ignored by the label
- 14:37:54 [julierawe]
- q+
- 14:37:59 [Jennie]
- John K: That was my issue too
- 14:38:21 [Jennie]
- ...and I just don't recall on this where there are, from the double negative perspective, it is standard to use them in one language
- 14:38:31 [Jennie]
- ...I find it difficult that we are trying to use this
- 14:38:39 [Jennie]
- ...There are other languages as well where this is very standard
- 14:38:44 [Jennie]
- Lisa: We weren't
- 14:38:51 [Jennie]
- ...We had in the actual description of the pattern
- 14:39:00 [Rain]
- q+
- 14:39:23 [Jennie]
- ...What we had was a description, then it got edited to fit as a label
- 14:39:51 [Jennie]
- ...A second point I am taking away from this is that we need to go through the labels that are now the titles of the pattern
- 14:40:03 [Jennie]
- ...We have to make sure that they are accurate. They don't have to be detailed
- 14:40:16 [Jennie]
- John K: that makes sense
- 14:40:27 [Jennie]
- Lisa: This was a first draft, we are going to make mistakes like that
- 14:40:43 [Jennie]
- ...Let's make sure that you won't do the wrong thing by just reading the label
- 14:41:00 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 14:41:16 [Jennie]
- Julie: I did wonder why the pattern was not named "use a simple structure"
- 14:41:32 [Jennie]
- ...This solves 2 problems: to say avoid double negatives, nested clauses - this sounds like different things
- 14:41:38 [kirkwood]
- “simple structure” works great
- 14:41:42 [Jennie]
- ...But the title actually does address this
- 14:41:50 [Jennie]
- Lisa: Sometimes these mistakes are crucial!
- 14:42:05 [Jennie]
- ...It is only because of confusing the title name and the pattern - you are going to suggest the wrong thing
- 14:42:11 [Jennie]
- ...I think we are going to have to add to our list
- 14:42:15 [Jennie]
- ...Checking this
- 14:42:17 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 14:42:29 [Jennie]
- Rain: I want to clarify for the group the resolution
- 14:42:41 [Jennie]
- ...This example from the Clear Language is why we have the resolution
- 14:42:57 [Jennie]
- ...The resolution is that as we are working on things like the materials with the Clear Language we are trying to put into Silver
- 14:43:16 [Jennie]
- ...We will have to, at times, change wording, break things up into different components from what maps to Making Content Usable
- 14:43:40 [Jennie]
- ...The resolution: when these types of activities occur, before we do more work on a particular element after trying to make one of those changes
- 14:43:53 [Jennie]
- ...That we bring those changes back to this group to verify that this group knows that change is accurate
- 14:44:07 [Jennie]
- ...I want to be sure we don't focus on the one single example
- 14:44:13 [Jennie]
- ...This is more of a process concern
- 14:44:24 [Jennie]
- ...This will help with the Silver work, and the update to Content Usable
- 14:44:31 [julierawe]
- +1 to Rain
- 14:44:42 [Jennie]
- ...We will be updating language and we may risk these types of issues
- 14:44:52 [Jennie]
- Lisa: Thank you
- 14:45:14 [Jennie]
- ...We have to look at these failures as fantastic - we can learn from them, make our next version clearer, and improve our process
- 14:45:27 [Jennie]
- ...This will happen more and more if we don't address it
- 14:45:36 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 14:45:36 [Jennie]
- ...Hopefully we will find issues with the process early
- 14:45:45 [Lisa]
- zakim, next item
- 14:45:45 [Zakim]
- agendum 5 -- Who will be at tpac -- taken up [from Lisa]
- 14:45:58 [Jennie]
- Lisa: Who will be at TPAC?
- 14:46:07 [Jennie]
- Jennie: I am attending virtually - registration complete
- 14:46:08 [Lisa]
- https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2022
- 14:46:13 [ShawnT]
- ME!!!!!
- 14:46:24 [ShawnT]
- I'll be there! super excited!
- 14:46:39 [Rain]
- 0 at the moment, working on figuring out travel with my manager
- 14:46:44 [krisanne]
- I'm still up in the air about going in person.
- 14:46:48 [Jennie]
- Lisa: We may need someone to be the point person
- 14:46:55 [Jennie]
- ...to work out logistics
- 14:47:22 [ShawnT]
- Can we keep this information in the action items document?
- 14:47:31 [Jennie]
- ...If I don't get there, we may ask Shawn to be the point person
- 14:47:39 [Lisa]
- zakim, next item
- 14:47:39 [Zakim]
- agendum 6 -- Finish functional needs review https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ndRziXRfnyAgDaL8ctByQagDdM36H8QxV44lO3u8zgc/edit# -- taken up [from Lisa]
- 14:47:42 [Jennie]
- ...Yes, Shawn, copy it into the action items
- 14:48:31 [Jennie]
- Lisa: I think we are up to Learning, and we got agreements on learning
- 14:48:45 [Jennie]
- ...Memory: short term or working memory is in the comments
- 14:48:53 [Jennie]
- ...These are normally different things
- 14:48:58 [ShawnT]
- added a section
- 14:49:06 [ShawnT]
- ... in the document
- 14:49:06 [Jennie]
- ...We felt that they missed out other things
- 14:49:13 [Jennie]
- ...Are we correct with these comments?
- 14:49:19 [Lisa]
- any objections?
- 14:49:33 [Jennie]
- Lisa: Executive Function
- 14:49:45 [Jennie]
- ...We thought that maybe some of these go into mental health
- 14:50:05 [Jennie]
- ...Rain suggested self regulation and I think that is a better term
- 14:50:05 [Lisa]
- q?
- 14:50:07 [kirkwood]
- I would have pacing in there
- 14:50:07 [Becca_Monteleone]
- +1 for regulation
- 14:50:08 [Jennie]
- ...Any comments?
- 14:50:15 [Lisa]
- any objections?
- 14:50:44 [Jennie]
- John K: Pacing doesn't seem to be in the executive part
- 14:50:50 [Jennie]
- Lisa: We have it in the new section
- 14:51:12 [Jennie]
- John K: processing speed is one thing, but self pacing, which is executive function
- 14:51:35 [Jennie]
- ...purposefully slowing things down, taking breaks, slowing the speed of things down
- 14:51:46 [Jennie]
- ...This is an executive function skill
- 14:51:56 [Jennie]
- Lisa: I just added it
- 14:52:04 [Jennie]
- ...Is everyone comfortable with that?
- 14:52:06 [Lisa]
- any objections?
- 14:52:20 [Jennie]
- Lisa: I will make a clean version at the side
- 14:52:30 [Jennie]
- ...Mental health: we have emotional regulation
- 14:52:34 [Jennie]
- ...triggers, mode
- 14:52:38 [Jennie]
- ...mental health
- 14:52:47 [Jennie]
- ...This needs more work
- 14:52:53 [Jennie]
- ...I think we want to delay that
- 14:53:04 [Jennie]
- ...Should we delay this?
- 14:53:17 [Jennie]
- John K: I have a difficult time with this one
- 14:53:26 [Jennie]
- ...how to approach it in the construct
- 14:53:43 [Jennie]
- Lisa: This one we can maybe pass on to the mental health subgroup
- 14:53:52 [Jennie]
- ...Cognitive and sensory we have asked for this to be removed
- 14:53:57 [Jennie]
- q+
- 14:54:19 [Jennie]
- Lisa: Visual memory is usually part of memory. Rain is suggesting that some goes into language
- 14:54:34 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 14:55:27 [Jennie]
- Jennie: where will we post something like central auditory processing disorder
- 14:55:42 [Jennie]
- Lisa: I think this is less about where it is in the brain, and more about the functional needs
- 14:58:55 [Jennie]
- (discussion happened about what is missing by removing the longer list item)
- 14:59:07 [Jennie]
- (Lisa added some examples into the document)
- 14:59:11 [Jennie]
- Jennie +1
- 14:59:23 [Lisa]
- Language (from different sources, such as auditory discriminatory, visual memory etc)
- 15:00:07 [Lisa]
- any objections?
- 15:00:26 [Jennie]
- Lisa: We are going to ask cognitive and sensory intersections to be removed
- 15:00:32 [Jennie]
- ...Any objections?
- 15:00:45 [Jennie]
- ...Next is new proposed buckets
- 15:00:56 [Jennie]
- ...Any objectives?
- 15:01:12 [Jennie]
- John K: What does fluency mean in this case?
- 15:01:25 [Jennie]
- q+
- 15:02:16 [Jennie]
- Jennie: I believe it may have been EA that asked for that to be there
- 15:02:18 [kirkwood]
- present+
- 15:02:19 [Jennie]
- ack Jennie
- 15:02:37 [Jennie]
- Lisa: This ends the COGA main meeting
- 15:02:42 [Jennie]
- ...Subgroup meeting happens next
- 15:02:43 [Rain]
- +1 to combining, sounds good!
- 15:03:11 [Jennie]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 15:03:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/21-coga-minutes.html Jennie
- 15:04:35 [julierawe]
- For Le: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ndRziXRfnyAgDaL8ctByQagDdM36H8QxV44lO3u8zgc/edit#heading=h.1sw3jym07njn
- 15:08:39 [Lisa]
- topic: Structure Review For Content Useable and the Research Plan and Strategy
- 15:08:50 [Lisa]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 15:08:50 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/21-coga-minutes.html Lisa
- 15:09:06 [Lisa]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu0WYcvCpp-zIz2NzPk2AuTJOrzgh3T4sKQgzCa10ps/edit#heading=h.bls0z8ekj5k3
- 15:09:20 [Lisa]
- reserch plan
- 15:10:12 [Lisa]
- scribe+ lisa, rain
- 15:10:50 [Lisa]
- agenda+ making a survey?
- 15:11:12 [Lisa]
- agenda+ colecting ideas such redoing pattern names
- 15:11:47 [Lisa]
- agenda+ share roys feed back
- 15:12:01 [Lisa]
- agenda+ timelines and next step
- 15:13:37 [Lisa]
- take up item 9
- 15:13:42 [Rain]
- Google Drive Link for analytics: https://drive.google.com/corp/drive/folders/1weE_PbvHGJUm4pdzaKp2TBvLAF66A-SH
- 15:14:53 [Lisa]
- we can only get 3 month data
- 15:15:46 [Lisa]
- rain: and data needs to be parsed.
- 15:16:19 [Lisa]
- any volenteres
- 15:16:32 [Rain]
- rain: is there someone in this group who has talent with data of this type and pulling useful information out of it
- 15:18:23 [Lisa]
- also the time spent is useful
- 15:18:44 [Lisa]
- where they go to and come from is useful
- 15:19:56 [Lisa]
- people over 5 minuets, over ten muinits
- 15:20:55 [Lisa]
- shawn might be able to do some
- 15:21:17 [Lisa]
- q+
- 15:21:40 [Lisa]
- rain: we need to decide first what we want
- 15:21:49 [Rain]
- ack Lisa
- 15:21:58 [kirkwood]
- q+
- 15:22:11 [Rain]
- Lisa: make a Google Doc to collect our questions that we want to understand
- 15:22:21 [Rain]
- ... Put the information we want into a spreadsheet
- 15:22:54 [Lisa]
- write some macros
- 15:23:29 [Lisa]
- john is concerned about removing data. bounces are important
- 15:23:46 [ShawnT]
- +1 to convert them to excel
- 15:24:37 [Lisa]
- q+ Add to questions, how many more the five miunets
- 15:24:44 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 15:25:48 [Lisa]
- john to look at files
- 15:26:26 [Rain]
- Spreadsheet to include the data and review: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YitWbImy9QSPpmTAzOo_Jcg6jOg9Xe--kj3uHe5rHD0/edit#gid=0
- 15:27:38 [Lisa]
- we want to do this on a few pages
- 15:28:24 [Lisa]
- rain: our goal were pages are coming from, and going next
- 15:28:36 [Lisa]
- john: what is our goals?
- 15:28:51 [Lisa]
- rain: how they are using it
- 15:29:13 [Lisa]
- jouhn: you cant do that without cookies
- 15:29:36 [Lisa]
- rain: we have some within the site
- 15:29:43 [Lisa]
- q+
- 15:30:25 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 15:30:26 [Zakim]
- Add, you wanted to questions, how many more the five miunets
- 15:31:15 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 15:31:39 [Lisa]
- lisa wants to know what issue papers and sections of document are being looked at
- 15:31:51 [ShawnT]
- Is there a tool that can parse this data?
- 15:31:55 [Lisa]
- next item
- 15:32:04 [Lisa]
- close item 6
- 15:32:26 [Lisa]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu0WYcvCpp-zIz2NzPk2AuTJOrzgh3T4sKQgzCa10ps/edit#heading=h.y3ela4l7g64d
- 15:32:35 [Rain]
- Lisa: research group has a survey, and we have questions
- 15:32:36 [Rain]
- https://drive.google.com/corp/drive/folders/1weE_PbvHGJUm4pdzaKp2TBvLAF66A-SH
- 15:33:05 [Rain]
- ... can we do a duplicate of the survey and edit it?
- 15:33:08 [Rain]
- Rain: yes, we can
- 15:34:17 [Lisa]
- lisa to make reserch survey
- 15:34:21 [Rain]
- Lisa: will take an action to create the research survey
- 15:34:35 [Rain]
- Rain: copied content useable structure survey to use as a starting point: https://docs.google.com/forms/u/5/d/1-VdpaYq0qLk0bZYryimWb-VL_tlklX-D1Uvtd2btzrw/edit?fromCopy=true
- 15:35:18 [Lisa]
- next item
- 15:35:27 [Lisa]
- close item 7
- 15:35:37 [Lisa]
- next item
- 15:36:06 [Lisa]
- the name of the folder is the page url
- 15:37:06 [Rain]
- Lisa: we need to review the pattern names. Where do we collect these?
- 15:37:11 [Rain]
- ... should it be part of the structure?
- 15:37:30 [Rain]
- ... Also, would like someone to review and contrast the objectives. Are they as good as they can be?
- 15:37:33 [Rain]
- q+
- 15:38:02 [Lisa]
- rain: it is part of stucture
- 15:38:19 [Rain]
- Rain: part of overall information architecture which is why it's part of structure
- 15:38:27 [Rain]
- ... and part of our next steps
- 15:38:33 [Rain]
- Lisa: we also have our whole issues thing
- 15:38:43 [Rain]
- ... need to figure out which ones belong to structure, research, and a different subgroup
- 15:39:29 [Rain]
- ... also where do we collect feedback from the group? Do we have a page to collect it?
- 15:39:35 [Rain]
- ... rather than asking us to fill out the form?
- 15:39:37 [julierawe]
- q+
- 15:40:24 [ShawnT]
- Issue Management in Google drive: https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1bNyKOcVYJ__fq66i7sljE_1rxyS6L35Z
- 15:40:32 [Rain]
- ack Rachael
- 15:40:34 [Rain]
- ack Rain
- 15:40:36 [Rain]
- ack julierawe
- 15:40:58 [Rain]
- Julie: has questions that would like a platform to raise informally
- 15:41:00 [Lisa]
- Julie: I would like to open comments informaly
- 15:41:10 [Rain]
- ... then if there is reason we can make them more formal
- 15:41:15 [ShawnT]
- q+
- 15:41:41 [Rain]
- ack ShawnT
- 15:41:50 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 15:42:36 [Rain]
- q+
- 15:42:54 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 15:42:54 [Lisa]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit
- 15:43:53 [Lisa]
- rain: can we dedicate a call (can be subgroup call. Maybe more then 1
- 15:44:19 [kirkwood]
- +1
- 15:44:44 [kirkwood]
- to Rain’s suggestions to collect and discuss on call
- 15:45:25 [Rain]
- Julie: is there a way in the doc to organize the comments?
- 15:45:30 [Lisa]
- julie: there is a way to organise your comment
- 15:45:32 [Rain]
- ... such as starting the comment with the section that you are commenting on
- 15:45:43 [Rain]
- ... also to help us make sense of a wide variety of comments
- 15:45:49 [Lisa]
- maybe we can add tages to help catgrise it
- 15:45:51 [Rain]
- ... by giving examples of how to give the markers
- 15:45:58 [Lisa]
- +1
- 15:46:06 [Rain]
- +1
- 15:46:18 [Rain]
- Lisa: think we all agree we want to have a Google Doc
- 15:46:23 [Rain]
- ... for informal collection
- 15:46:27 [Rain]
- ... with markers, tags
- 15:46:35 [Rain]
- ... and then have a conversation on a call or two
- 15:46:40 [Rain]
- ... at least two calls
- 15:46:46 [Rain]
- ... a thursday call that goes into the subgroup time
- 15:46:48 [Rain]
- +1
- 15:46:54 [Lisa]
- +1
- 15:46:55 [Rain]
- ... that gives us two hours to discuss
- 15:47:00 [kirkwood]
- +1
- 15:47:01 [ShawnT]
- +1
- 15:47:03 [julierawe]
- q+
- 15:47:10 [Rain]
- ack julierawe
- 15:47:10 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 15:47:16 [kirkwood]
- suggest having it as a standardized name on agenda
- 15:47:32 [Rain]
- Julie: love that we will budget time for this, but nervous about eating into subgroup time too much
- 15:48:24 [julierawe]
- q+
- 15:48:36 [Rain]
- ack julierawe
- 15:48:38 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 15:48:45 [Rain]
- Julie: a lot of the conversation might be about little things
- 15:48:48 [Lisa]
- julie: a lot of them wwill be litle
- 15:49:11 [Lisa]
- some are big picture and some are litle
- 15:49:12 [Rain]
- ... is there a forum for having a big picture discussion about the overall structure and giant sections
- 15:49:41 [Lisa]
- rain: we also get big picture as well
- 15:50:02 [Lisa]
- big picture first
- 15:50:03 [Rain]
- Lisa: want to make sure we start with the big picture
- 15:50:11 [Lisa]
- but they will go back and forth
- 15:51:13 [Lisa]
- rain: there will be suggestion, on stucture and that can spring bourd it
- 15:51:44 [Lisa]
- were can we give positve feedback?
- 15:51:55 [Lisa]
- it is perfect for some people
- 15:52:05 [Lisa]
- Lisa: diffrent enry points?
- 15:52:36 [Lisa]
- rain : we need to anlaize who likes what
- 15:52:53 [Lisa]
- next item
- 15:53:11 [Rain]
- Lisa took on an item to do the survey
- 15:53:48 [Lisa]
- rain: next step is to parse the feedback
- 15:54:12 [Lisa]
- lisa: next steps add to https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit
- 15:54:23 [Rain]
- rain's next step: parse feedback and create high fidelity concepts for architecture shifts
- 15:54:27 [Lisa]
- Lisa: scedule the calls
- 15:55:16 [julierawe]
- q+
- 15:55:18 [Lisa]
- John to look at data from roy
- 15:55:19 [Rain]
- John K taking a look at the data from Roy and seeing what we can learn from that
- 15:55:22 [Rain]
- ack julierawe
- 15:55:45 [Rain]
- Julie to take a look at the Google Doc for gathering feedback on Making Content Usable
- 15:56:06 [Rain]
- Julie: currently called "suggested new content" -- should it be adjusted to also enable people to share changes, thoughts, etc.?
- 15:56:53 [Rain]
- Lisa: also adding "questions we have about the document"
- 15:56:59 [Rain]
- ... which may lead to suggestions
- 15:59:02 [Rain]
- Lisa: continue to add the types of things to the document, including what tags, etc.
- 15:59:28 [Rain]
- Lisa: Julie, can you edit the document, and then I'll send to the group?
- 15:59:38 [Lisa]
- lisa: add to agenda?
- 15:59:40 [Rain]
- Julie: yes, taking action to play with the document, then Lisa will add to the agenda
- 16:01:55 [Lisa]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:01:55 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/21-coga-minutes.html Lisa
- 16:03:44 [julierawe]
- I have to drop off, thanks!
- 18:14:41 [bkardell_]
- bkardell_ has joined #coga