14:11:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
14:11:22 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/07/20-wot-td-irc
14:11:30 <kaz-brb> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF
14:12:06 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Cristiano_Aguzi, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Michael_Koster
14:12:11 <kaz> chiar: Sebastian
14:12:33 <McCool_> McCool_ has joined #wot-td
14:12:45 <kaz> q+
14:13:02 <McCool_> (sorry, I forgot I had a conflict and won't be able to join the TD call today; please email me if anything comes up)
14:13:49 <kaz> s/(sorry, I forgot I had a conflict and won't be able to join the TD call today; please email me if anything comes up)//
14:13:57 <kaz> scribenick: Ege
14:14:09 <Ege> topic: Agenda
14:14:34 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#July_20.2C_2022 agenda for today
14:14:37 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#July_20.2C_2022
14:15:48 <Ege> topic: Minutes Review
14:17:00 <kaz> ack k
14:17:12 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2022/07/13-wot-td-minutes.html July-13
14:21:43 <kaz> q+
14:22:10 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:23:12 <kaz> ack k
14:24:19 <Ege> sk: any objections?
14:24:28 <Ege> sk: hearing none, let's publish
14:24:54 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:24:58 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:24:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:25:21 <dape> q+
14:25:36 <kaz> topic: TD
14:25:48 <kaz> subtopic: Cancellation
14:25:58 <kaz> sk: no TD call next week due to the Testfest
14:26:22 <Ege> sk: Let's see implementation amount
14:26:35 <kaz> i/Let's/subtopic: Implementation status/
14:26:56 <Ege> sk: the focus is profile but we should fill the gaps for the td as well
14:27:32 <kaz> s/ td / TD /
14:27:52 <dape> ack dape
14:28:16 <Ege> dp: we should regenerate it more often
14:28:41 <kaz> i|Let's see|-> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/ TD Editor's draft (with yellow highlights for unimplemented features)|
14:28:48 <kaz> q+
14:30:31 <Ege> kaz: mccool will inform everyone about the instructions
14:30:35 <kaz> ack k
14:31:19 <kaz> s/instructions/instructions for the Testfest, so please give your comments and then let's finalize the instructions on Monday./
14:32:33 <kaz> chair: Sebastian
14:32:43 <kaz> s/chiar: Sebastian//
14:33:32 <Ege> subtopic: new charter plan
14:33:35 <Ege> sk: I will merge it
14:35:08 <kaz> s/new charter plan/TD schedule update/
14:35:12 <Ege> sk: we can publish it next week
14:35:17 <kaz> q+
14:36:12 <kaz> i|I will merge|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1027 wot PR 1027 - Update wg-2021-extension-plan.md - TD schedule|
14:36:12 <kaz> ack k
14:36:24 <kaz> i/we can publish/subtopic: 4th WD/
14:36:35 <Ege> subtopic: IANA Registration
14:36:53 <kaz> i/IANA/kaz: we need to add the change log since the March WD./
14:37:04 <kaz> i/IANA/dape: will work on a PR./
14:37:10 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:37:14 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:37:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:38:50 <Ege> sk: I have also asked coap id number
14:39:14 <kaz> i/no TD call/scribenick: kaz/
14:39:21 <kaz> i/Let's see/scribenick: Ege/
14:39:25 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:39:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:39:27 <Ege> sk: it will be good to have that when we go for CR transition
14:39:45 <kaz> i/we need to add/scribenick: kaz/
14:39:47 <Ege> topic: PRs
14:39:59 <kaz> i/I have also/scribenick: Ege/
14:40:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:40:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:41:02 <Ege> subtopic: PR 1587
14:41:13 <Ege> sk: ege worked to validate the hreflang attribute
14:41:33 <Ege> ek: the ietf spec does not provide the pattern but the one I found validates against their examples
14:41:42 <kaz> i|ege|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1587 PR 1587 - Add hreflang to schema|
14:41:42 <Ege> sk: I hear no objections, merging
14:43:36 <Ege> subtopic: PR 1593
14:44:06 <Ege> ek: this makes it more explicit to define new new security terms
14:44:23 <Ege> sk: we like this in the TD to put new metadata
14:44:27 <kaz> i|this makes|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1593 PR 1593 - Make additionalProperties explicit in JSON Schema|
14:45:18 <Ege> subtopic: PR 1564
14:45:23 <Ege> sk: I will convert to a draft
14:45:54 <kaz> i|I will|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1564 PR 1564 - explain contentType usage|
14:46:20 <dape> q+
14:46:56 <Ege> subtopic: Oracle Review
14:47:06 <dape> ack dape
14:47:10 <Ege> dp: Should we move forward?
14:47:31 <Ege> sk: I have sent him an email, waiting for reply
14:47:37 <kaz> q?
14:48:52 <sebastian_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1548
14:49:06 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1548||
14:49:42 <kaz> i|Should we|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1548 Issue 1548 - Oracle review comments on CR draft - Part 1|
14:49:42 <Ege> ... let's wait and give him more time
14:51:36 <Ege> subtopic: tm:required default value
14:51:45 <Ege> sk: this is an interesting topic
14:53:00 <Ege> sk: if there are many properties in a TD, the tm:required term might become huge
14:53:42 <kaz> i|this is|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1581 Issue 1581 - Should tm:required have a default value?|
14:54:47 <Ege> sk: we cannot use a wildcard since it is not a valid json pointer
14:55:17 <dape> q+
14:55:25 <cris_> q+
14:55:38 <mjk_> mjk_ has joined #wot-td
14:57:20 <mjk_> q+
14:57:41 <Ege> dp: this solves one use case but there can be other use cases that want the opposite behavior
14:58:44 <Ege> ca: we should think of how people use TMs
14:58:44 <dape> ack dape
14:59:50 <Ege> ca: why would I make a template if everything is optional
15:01:20 <Ege> mjk: similar thoughts came during the sdf discussions
15:01:29 <cris_> ack c
15:01:39 <Ege> mjk: I agree with Cristiano, this is not about validation
15:02:49 <cris_> q+
15:02:52 <mjk_> ack m
15:02:55 <sebastian_> q?
15:03:01 <kaz> q+
15:03:35 <kaz> (some more discussion around SDF)
15:05:08 <sebastian_> q?
15:05:45 <kaz> ca: question on composability
15:06:35 <kaz> ... regarding the common use cases
15:06:42 <kaz> ... by default it's optional
15:07:19 <dape> q+ to consequences of removing tm:required
15:07:23 <kaz> ack c
15:08:42 <Ege> q+
15:09:03 <Ege> kaz: should we not get feedback from implementors?
15:11:06 <Ege> kaz: who is implementing this now?
15:11:13 <Ege> sk: editdor is implementing this
15:11:15 <cris_> q+
15:11:15 <Ege> ca: node-wot too
15:12:40 <dape> ack dape
15:12:40 <Zakim> dape, you wanted to consequences of removing tm:required
15:12:43 <kaz> ack k
15:12:45 <kaz> ack e
15:14:00 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1583
15:14:46 <Ege> ek: ditto follows the default assumption and every affordance is required
15:18:19 <Ege> ca: I agree with daniel that it is weird that if it is not present, it is full of values
15:21:29 <Ege> ca: if there is no tm:required, all TDs can claim to implement that TM
15:21:52 <Ege> ek: yes a bit like json schema. If there is no required, all json objects validate the schema
15:23:58 <Ege> mjk: it also depends on the tool
15:24:04 <Ege> sk: maybe we should make it mandatorz
15:27:47 <Ege> ca: it might be dangerous since tools would show different behavior
15:29:12 <Ege> sk: my default assumption is to take everything from it
15:30:32 <Ege> ca: maybe lets see the options and vote
15:31:21 <mjk_> 1. no default
15:31:30 <mjk_> 2. default is "all required"
15:31:39 <mjk_> 3. default is "none required"
15:36:30 <Ege> sk: I write all the options to github issue 1581
15:38:15 <Ege> subtopic: Issue 1594
15:40:12 <Ege> ek: this is more of a question, what if we want to say your TD must have basic security etc.
15:41:12 <kaz> i|this is|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1594 Issue 1594 - Using tm:required for non-affordance members|
15:43:56 <dape> q+
15:43:57 <Ege> ca: derivation algorithm copies all the terms no?
15:44:06 <Ege> ek: in that case, we require all affordances?
15:44:10 <cris_> ack c
15:44:34 <cris_> q+
15:44:51 <kaz> q+
15:45:10 <Ege> dp: it seems more and more clear that we need tm:optional instead of tm:required
15:45:22 <Ege> dp: what does this imply schedule-wise
15:45:26 <Ege> ack d
15:45:26 <kaz> ack d
15:46:04 <kaz> ack c
15:46:23 <Ege> ca: I agree with daniel
15:47:09 <Ege> kaz: that is why I proposed to talk with developers
15:47:10 <kaz> ack k
15:54:04 <Ege> subtopic: Issue 1214
15:54:15 <kaz> q?
15:54:25 <dape> q+
15:54:30 <Ege> sk: matthias did the registration, I will ping him
15:54:48 <kaz> i|matt|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1214 Issue 1214 - TD File Extension Convention|
15:54:55 <dape> ack dape
15:58:21 <sebastian_> Ege we can hear you but ut seems you are not able to hear us
16:00:28 <kaz> q+
16:02:01 <Ege> topic: Binding Templates
16:04:31 <Ege> ek: would we publish all of them as separate documents?
16:04:45 <Ege> kaz: we can publish them. group notes do not need to be perfect
16:05:52 <kaz> s/perfect/perfect. however, we still need to clarify the potential gaps between the Binding Templates Notes and the existing implementations, e.g., node-wot, too./
16:05:55 <Ege> kaz: we need to check the gaps between the implementations and the notes
16:06:54 <kaz> s/kaz: we need to check the gaps between the implementations and the notes//
16:06:58 <kaz> [adjourned]
16:07:02 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:07:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
19:26:31 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wot-td
19:57:14 <benfrancis1> benfrancis1 has joined #wot-td
21:09:24 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot-td
23:41:53 <benfrancis1> benfrancis1 has joined #wot-td