IRC log of wot-td on 2022-07-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:11:22 [RRSAgent]

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14:11:22 [RRSAgent]

logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/07/20-wot-td-irc

14:11:30 [kaz-brb]

meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF

14:12:06 [kaz]

present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Cristiano_Aguzi, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Michael_Koster

14:12:11 [kaz]

chiar: Sebastian

14:12:33 [McCool_]

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14:12:45 [kaz]

q+

14:13:02 [McCool_]

(sorry, I forgot I had a conflict and won't be able to join the TD call today; please email me if anything comes up)

14:13:49 [kaz]

s/(sorry, I forgot I had a conflict and won't be able to join the TD call today; please email me if anything comes up)//

14:13:57 [kaz]

scribenick: Ege

14:14:09 [Ege]

topic: Agenda

14:14:34 [kaz]

-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#July_20.2C_2022 agenda for today

14:14:37 [kaz]

agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#July_20.2C_2022

14:15:48 [Ege]

topic: Minutes Review

14:17:00 [kaz]

ack k

14:17:12 [kaz]

-> https://www.w3.org/2022/07/13-wot-td-minutes.html July-13

14:21:43 [kaz]

q+

14:22:10 [kaz]

present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima

14:23:12 [kaz]

ack k

14:24:19 [Ege]

sk: any objections?

14:24:28 [Ege]

sk: hearing none, let's publish

14:24:54 [kaz]

rrsagent, make log public

14:24:58 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:24:58 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:25:21 [dape]

q+

14:25:36 [kaz]

topic: TD

14:25:48 [kaz]

subtopic: Cancellation

14:25:58 [kaz]

sk: no TD call next week due to the Testfest

14:26:22 [Ege]

sk: Let's see implementation amount

14:26:35 [kaz]

i/Let's/subtopic: Implementation status/

14:26:56 [Ege]

sk: the focus is profile but we should fill the gaps for the td as well

14:27:32 [kaz]

s/ td / TD /

14:27:52 [dape]

ack dape

14:28:16 [Ege]

dp: we should regenerate it more often

14:28:41 [kaz]

i|Let's see|-> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/ TD Editor's draft (with yellow highlights for unimplemented features)|

14:28:48 [kaz]

q+

14:30:31 [Ege]

kaz: mccool will inform everyone about the instructions

14:30:35 [kaz]

ack k

14:31:19 [kaz]

s/instructions/instructions for the Testfest, so please give your comments and then let's finalize the instructions on Monday./

14:32:33 [kaz]

chair: Sebastian

14:32:43 [kaz]

s/chiar: Sebastian//

14:33:32 [Ege]

subtopic: new charter plan

14:33:35 [Ege]

sk: I will merge it

14:35:08 [kaz]

s/new charter plan/TD schedule update/

14:35:12 [Ege]

sk: we can publish it next week

14:35:17 [kaz]

q+

14:36:12 [kaz]

i|I will merge|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1027 wot PR 1027 - Update wg-2021-extension-plan.md - TD schedule|

14:36:12 [kaz]

ack k

14:36:24 [kaz]

i/we can publish/subtopic: 4th WD/

14:36:35 [Ege]

subtopic: IANA Registration

14:36:53 [kaz]

i/IANA/kaz: we need to add the change log since the March WD./

14:37:04 [kaz]

i/IANA/dape: will work on a PR./

14:37:10 [kaz]

rrsagent, make log public

14:37:14 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:37:14 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:38:50 [Ege]

sk: I have also asked coap id number

14:39:14 [kaz]

i/no TD call/scribenick: kaz/

14:39:21 [kaz]

i/Let's see/scribenick: Ege/

14:39:25 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:39:25 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:39:27 [Ege]

sk: it will be good to have that when we go for CR transition

14:39:45 [kaz]

i/we need to add/scribenick: kaz/

14:39:47 [Ege]

topic: PRs

14:39:59 [kaz]

i/I have also/scribenick: Ege/

14:40:01 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:40:01 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:41:02 [Ege]

subtopic: PR 1587

14:41:13 [Ege]

sk: ege worked to validate the hreflang attribute

14:41:33 [Ege]

ek: the ietf spec does not provide the pattern but the one I found validates against their examples

14:41:42 [kaz]

i|ege|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1587 PR 1587 - Add hreflang to schema|

14:41:42 [Ege]

sk: I hear no objections, merging

14:43:36 [Ege]

subtopic: PR 1593

14:44:06 [Ege]

ek: this makes it more explicit to define new new security terms

14:44:23 [Ege]

sk: we like this in the TD to put new metadata

14:44:27 [kaz]

i|this makes|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1593 PR 1593 - Make additionalProperties explicit in JSON Schema|

14:45:18 [Ege]

subtopic: PR 1564

14:45:23 [Ege]

sk: I will convert to a draft

14:45:54 [kaz]

i|I will|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1564 PR 1564 - explain contentType usage|

14:46:20 [dape]

q+

14:46:56 [Ege]

subtopic: Oracle Review

14:47:06 [dape]

ack dape

14:47:10 [Ege]

dp: Should we move forward?

14:47:31 [Ege]

sk: I have sent him an email, waiting for reply

14:47:37 [kaz]

q?

14:48:52 [sebastian_]

https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1548

14:49:06 [kaz]

s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1548||

14:49:42 [kaz]

i|Should we|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1548 Issue 1548 - Oracle review comments on CR draft - Part 1|

14:49:42 [Ege]

... let's wait and give him more time

14:51:36 [Ege]

subtopic: tm:required default value

14:51:45 [Ege]

sk: this is an interesting topic

14:53:00 [Ege]

sk: if there are many properties in a TD, the tm:required term might become huge

14:53:42 [kaz]

i|this is|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1581 Issue 1581 - Should tm:required have a default value?|

14:54:47 [Ege]

sk: we cannot use a wildcard since it is not a valid json pointer

14:55:17 [dape]

q+

14:55:25 [cris_]

q+

14:55:38 [mjk_]

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14:57:20 [mjk_]

q+

14:57:41 [Ege]

dp: this solves one use case but there can be other use cases that want the opposite behavior

14:58:44 [Ege]

ca: we should think of how people use TMs

14:58:44 [dape]

ack dape

14:59:50 [Ege]

ca: why would I make a template if everything is optional

15:01:20 [Ege]

mjk: similar thoughts came during the sdf discussions

15:01:29 [cris_]

ack c

15:01:39 [Ege]

mjk: I agree with Cristiano, this is not about validation

15:02:49 [cris_]

q+

15:02:52 [mjk_]

ack m

15:02:55 [sebastian_]

q?

15:03:01 [kaz]

q+

15:03:35 [kaz]

(some more discussion around SDF)

15:05:08 [sebastian_]

q?

15:05:45 [kaz]

ca: question on composability

15:06:35 [kaz]

... regarding the common use cases

15:06:42 [kaz]

... by default it's optional

15:07:19 [dape]

q+ to consequences of removing tm:required

15:07:23 [kaz]

ack c

15:08:42 [Ege]

q+

15:09:03 [Ege]

kaz: should we not get feedback from implementors?

15:11:06 [Ege]

kaz: who is implementing this now?

15:11:13 [Ege]

sk: editdor is implementing this

15:11:15 [cris_]

q+

15:11:15 [Ege]

ca: node-wot too

15:12:40 [dape]

ack dape

15:12:40 [Zakim]

dape, you wanted to consequences of removing tm:required

15:12:43 [kaz]

ack k

15:12:45 [kaz]

ack e

15:14:00 [Ege]

https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1583

15:14:46 [Ege]

ek: ditto follows the default assumption and every affordance is required

15:18:19 [Ege]

ca: I agree with daniel that it is weird that if it is not present, it is full of values

15:21:29 [Ege]

ca: if there is no tm:required, all TDs can claim to implement that TM

15:21:52 [Ege]

ek: yes a bit like json schema. If there is no required, all json objects validate the schema

15:23:58 [Ege]

mjk: it also depends on the tool

15:24:04 [Ege]

sk: maybe we should make it mandatorz

15:27:47 [Ege]

ca: it might be dangerous since tools would show different behavior

15:29:12 [Ege]

sk: my default assumption is to take everything from it

15:30:32 [Ege]

ca: maybe lets see the options and vote

15:31:21 [mjk_]

1. no default

15:31:30 [mjk_]

2. default is "all required"

15:31:39 [mjk_]

3. default is "none required"

15:36:30 [Ege]

sk: I write all the options to github issue 1581

15:38:15 [Ege]

subtopic: Issue 1594

15:40:12 [Ege]

ek: this is more of a question, what if we want to say your TD must have basic security etc.

15:41:12 [kaz]

i|this is|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1594 Issue 1594 - Using tm:required for non-affordance members|

15:43:56 [dape]

q+

15:43:57 [Ege]

ca: derivation algorithm copies all the terms no?

15:44:06 [Ege]

ek: in that case, we require all affordances?

15:44:10 [cris_]

ack c

15:44:34 [cris_]

q+

15:44:51 [kaz]

q+

15:45:10 [Ege]

dp: it seems more and more clear that we need tm:optional instead of tm:required

15:45:22 [Ege]

dp: what does this imply schedule-wise

15:45:26 [Ege]

ack d

15:45:26 [kaz]

ack d

15:46:04 [kaz]

ack c

15:46:23 [Ege]

ca: I agree with daniel

15:47:09 [Ege]

kaz: that is why I proposed to talk with developers

15:47:10 [kaz]

ack k

15:54:04 [Ege]

subtopic: Issue 1214

15:54:15 [kaz]

q?

15:54:25 [dape]

q+

15:54:30 [Ege]

sk: matthias did the registration, I will ping him

15:54:48 [kaz]

i|matt|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1214 Issue 1214 - TD File Extension Convention|

15:54:55 [dape]

ack dape

15:58:21 [sebastian_]

Ege we can hear you but ut seems you are not able to hear us

16:00:28 [kaz]

q+

16:02:01 [Ege]

topic: Binding Templates

16:04:31 [Ege]

ek: would we publish all of them as separate documents?

16:04:45 [Ege]

kaz: we can publish them. group notes do not need to be perfect

16:05:52 [kaz]

s/perfect/perfect. however, we still need to clarify the potential gaps between the Binding Templates Notes and the existing implementations, e.g., node-wot, too./

16:05:55 [Ege]

kaz: we need to check the gaps between the implementations and the notes

16:06:54 [kaz]

s/kaz: we need to check the gaps between the implementations and the notes//

16:06:58 [kaz]

[adjourned]

16:07:02 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

16:07:02 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

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