12:57:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag-act
12:57:13 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/07/14-wcag-act-irc
12:57:16 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:57:17 <Zakim> Meeting: Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference
12:57:36 <Wilco> agenda+ ACT rules sheet
12:57:40 <Wilco> agenda+ Open ACT pull requests
12:57:42 <Wilco> agenda+ Priority issues
12:57:44 <Wilco> agenda+ "Optional" accessibility requirements
12:57:45 <Wilco> agenda+ HTML page title is descriptive (c4a8a4)
12:57:47 <Wilco> agenda+ Menuitem has non-empty accessible name (m6b1q3)
12:57:49 <Wilco> agenda+ Image accessible name is descriptive (qt1vmo)
12:57:50 <Wilco> agenda+ Text content that changes automatically can be paused, stopped or hidden (efbfc7)
12:57:52 <Wilco> agenda+ Element in sequential focus order has visible focus (oj04fd)
12:57:54 <Wilco> agenda+ Heading is descriptive (b49b2e)
12:57:54 <Wilco> Meeting: Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference
12:57:54 <Wilco> Date: 14 July, 2022
12:57:54 <Wilco> Chair: Wilco
12:58:35 <kathy> kathy has joined #wcag-act
13:01:34 <Helen> Helen has joined #wcag-act
13:01:40 <Helen> present+
13:04:20 <JennC> JennC has joined #wcag-act
13:05:37 <Wilco> present+
13:05:43 <JennC> present+
13:05:47 <kathy> present+
13:06:01 <Will_C> Will_C has joined #wcag-act
13:06:06 <Will_C> present+
13:06:55 <Will_C> zakim, take up next
13:06:55 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- ACT rules sheet -- taken up [from Wilco]
13:07:15 <kathy> scribe: Will_C
13:07:25 <Will_C> Wilco: meta element 1831 may be ready
13:07:35 <ToddL> ToddL has joined #wcag-act
13:08:01 <Wilco> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/1831
13:08:04 <Will_C> 1831  - needing one approval
13:08:39 <Will_C> Wilco - 1831 can be merged when we have approval
13:08:57 <Will_C> Wilco: I will ping JYM
13:09:44 <Will_C> Wilco - after merge it can go into CFC (1831)
13:10:07 <Will_C> Wilco: Helen needs help with Object and iFrame.
13:10:19 <ToddL> present+
13:10:46 <Will_C> Helen: trying to determine when ALT is ok.
13:11:10 <Will_C> Helen: part of the feedback is about defining data type defining accessible name
13:12:04 <Will_C> Helen: I moved the bit about objects and Alts into 'accessibility supports' section
13:12:59 <Will_C> Helen: JYM said to remove it, but I moved it and added a note. I have a bit more work to do.
13:13:13 <Will_C> Helen: Adding examples is a bit out of my wheelhouse
13:13:20 <Will_C> Wilco: We need volunteers
13:13:52 <Will_C> wilco: I'll take it.
13:14:42 <Will_C> Helen: akn7bn - iframe - asked for a new PR with feedback
13:15:32 <Will_C> Helen: JYM has put two comments on it we need other reviews of
13:15:47 <Will_C> Jenn: Scrollable elements will be reviewed tomorrow
13:16:21 <Will_C> zakim, take up next
13:16:21 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Open ACT pull requests -- taken up [from Wilco]
13:16:50 <Will_C> Wilco: mumbling...
13:17:09 <Will_C> Wilco: 1890 - assigned to wilco, helen and daniel
13:17:50 <Will_C> Wilco: 1886 - svg, need a third
13:18:06 <Will_C> Wilco: will respond to question in it
13:19:26 <Will_C> Wilco: 1884 - JYM already approved. many people will review
13:19:46 <Will_C> Wilco: 1869 - JYM already approved. many people will review
13:20:35 <Will_C> Wilco: Todd is getting a PR
13:21:15 <Will_C> Wilco:  1804 to Todd
13:21:40 <Will_C> Wilco: Should be all the pull requests.
13:21:53 <Will_C> zakim take up next
13:22:03 <Will_C> zakim, take up next
13:22:03 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Priority issues -- taken up [from Wilco]
13:22:17 <Will_C> Wilco: This is a new agenda item
13:22:23 <Wilco> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3APriority
13:22:26 <Will_C> Wilco: may need to recur
13:22:56 <Will_C> Wilco: Last week, talked about an implementer skipping certain test cases
13:23:03 <Will_C> Wilco: don't want that for the future
13:23:34 <Will_C> Wilco: Some of these issues have been open for 2 years
13:23:57 <Will_C> Wilco: in addition to other work. It's important that we don't have known issues
13:24:19 <Will_C> Will: what's the level of expertise?
13:24:28 <Will_C> Wilco: most are fairly technical
13:25:30 <Will_C> Helen: I would like to take one - volunteering for 1810
13:25:45 <Will_C> Wilco: This one is more of a discussion
13:25:51 <Will_C> Wilco: lets have it now
13:27:41 <Will_C> Wilco: issue with treeitems. ARIA isn't the rule, it's 1.3.1 and should be a failure. Semantically it's wrong. and leads to unpredictable results
13:28:30 <Will_C> Wilco: when you have different roles under a menu, the styling will look very weird
13:29:17 <Will_C> Will: wouldn't this fail 'certain children'?
13:29:39 <Will_C> Wilco: Yes and no, and you can argue that. But you could change treeitem to button
13:30:26 <Will_C> Helen: this is an inferred rule. So this is assumed knowledge. B/c it's not within the spec, it's ok. That's what he's saying.
13:30:53 <Will_C> Wilco: double problem of a bad thing to put in a menu and also missing parent
13:31:29 <Will_C> Wilco: Do we think this fails 1.3.1?
13:34:12 <Will_C> WIll: fails
13:34:40 <Will_C> Kathy: not familiar enough, but in the behavior between menu item and tree item.
13:35:00 <Helen> My search for the definition got this: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/ARIA/Roles/treeitem_role
13:36:16 <Will_C> Wilco: Think there is a major potential for 1.3.1 issue
13:36:49 <Will_C> Helen: some properties may not trickle down when there is a missing parent. Lacking tree role may mean that expand/collapse is not inherited
13:37:21 <Will_C> Kathy: Would putting a tree inside a menu affect the expand/collapse?
13:37:35 <Will_C> Wilco: Assign this to Kathy for a little bit of testing.
13:37:54 <Will_C> Helen: picking up my marbles and leaving
13:38:35 <Will_C> Wilco:  #1172 - can someone do a little testing?
13:38:48 <Rachael> Rachael has joined #wcag-act
13:38:57 <Will_C> Wilco: if you have a lang attribute and an xm lang is empty, what scenarios might cause a problem?
13:38:58 <Rachael> present+
13:39:51 <Will_C> Wilco: need to make sure that it defaults back to HTML lang if there is xml that is missing a lang
13:40:08 <Will_C> Wilco: just need some testing. Anyone?
13:40:29 <Will_C> WIll: I will heroically take it on
13:40:36 <Will_C> zakim, take up next
13:40:36 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- "Optional" accessibility requirements -- taken up [from Wilco]
13:40:51 <Will_C> WIlco: This is kathy's
13:42:15 <Will_C> Kathy: We talked about last week how we can allow implementers to map to SCs in certain situations when the rule might not be a primary rule. Like a AAA rule written for  a AA criterion
13:42:49 <Will_C> Kathy: Our rules format requires that we must list the SCs that fail in our rules.
13:43:05 <CarlosD> CarlosD has joined #wcag-act
13:43:26 <Will_C> Kathy: Atomic rules might not fail because there are separate conditions that need to be checked and it's only checking one condition in this SC
13:43:58 <Will_C> Kathy: Here is an example where I've tried to make some edits
13:45:12 <Will_C> Kathy: Header section, no changes, but under there, I have changed it to 'mapping conformance requirement' which is a mapping of SCs that may apply. adding bits about when the outcomes have passed
13:46:11 <Will_C> Kathy: Making the listing of an SC in a rule narrower in scope, to satisfy the conditions when it has passed. THis removes the AAA SCs, and moves them to a new section called 'Requirements (optional)'
13:46:28 <Will_C> Kathy: 4.4.2 is for supplemental, related, etc...
13:47:09 <Will_C> Kathy: 4.4.2 allows for further testing when the outcome is failed. But also allows AA SCs to pass, and creating a section for further testing
13:49:34 <Will_C> Wilco: Has opinions
13:50:28 <Will_C> Helen: One Q - the more that can be picked up programmatically vs, manual, should the further testing be for manual? Since machines don't get nuance
13:51:06 <Will_C> Helen: Is this more for the black and white rules?
13:51:40 <Will_C> Kathy: 'Further testing is needed' is for times when there's going to be another rule that really determines whether the SC should be considered not satisfied
13:54:40 <Will_C> Wilco: THe reason we put that in there was the thought that rules are tech specific. We can't prove we tested everything.
13:55:17 <Will_C> Wilco: There are always ways rules can fail. Pretty much never happens that rules can tell you it passed
13:56:20 <Will_C> Kathy: I see that. I originally had left 'or further testing is needed' in. but it gets more wordy.
13:56:40 <Will_C> Wilco: Britney joined early.
13:57:08 <Will_C> Wilco: let's wrap this up? Should we put this into a PR
13:57:14 <Will_C> Kathy: I can do that
13:57:56 <Will_C> WIlco: next week, Surveys are due today. Please look at the rule sheet and fill out where your name isn't
13:58:23 <Will_C> WIlco: I'm out next weekend but you know I'll join anyway
13:58:33 <Will_C> Helen: I am bad
13:58:42 <Will_C> Wilco: wrapping.
13:59:15 <stevelee> stevelee has joined #wcag-act
14:02:26 <Wilco> zakim, end meeting
14:02:26 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Wilco, ChrisLoiselle, kathy, ToddL, Helen, Daniel, JennC, Will_C, Rachael
14:02:28 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v1
14:02:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/14-wcag-act-minutes.html Zakim
14:02:31 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Wilco; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
14:02:35 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag-act
14:02:38 <Wilco> RRSAgent, bye
14:02:38 <RRSAgent> I see no action items