15:02:28 RRSAgent has joined #editing 15:02:28 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/07/14-editing-irc 15:03:12 GameMaker_ has joined #editing 15:03:30 present+ 15:03:37 present+ 15:03:39 present+ 15:03:44 scribe: Travis 15:04:08 Meeting: W3C Editing WG Meeting, July 14, 2022 15:04:34 Topic: async clipboard read and race conditions 15:04:43 present+ 15:04:45 github: https://github.com/w3c/clipboard-apis/issues/180 15:05:41 Checking to see if Anupam can join to discuss... 15:07:14 whsieh: the behavior is basically checking (in Windows) the sequence number 15:07:47 .. apple has a similar principle. If the data contents changed between binding the requested content and the read, we will throw. 15:08:25 johanneswilm: is this going to result in unexpected errors? 15:08:37 whsieh: there are lots of cases where errors can be thrown (in general). 15:08:52 .. So, I'm not sure this is a problem. 15:09:15 .. E.g., if the user decides to cancel out of a paste operation, that is also an error. 15:09:21 .. so perhaps this can be one of them? 15:09:29 whsieh_ has joined #editing 15:10:33 topic: should reading the clipboard throw DataError or empty clipboard items? 15:10:41 github: https://github.com/w3c/clipboard-apis/issues/179 15:11:36 (reads the issue) 15:12:09 whsieh_: this is the situation where there IS data on the clipboard, but none of it can be consumed by the webpage...? 15:12:36 .. seems weird to throw a DataError in the case where there is nothing in the clipboard/pasteboard... 15:12:43 .. in that case, returning an empty list. 15:13:27 travis: I like just returning an empty list too--easy for web authors to handle with erroring out... 15:13:54 whsieh_: In the specific example that snianu (Anupam) gave, I'm not sure if the error is OK. 15:14:12 .. probably can't resolve on this at this time without further discussion with snianu? 15:14:25 s/snianu?/snianu. 15:15:05 johanneswilm: can the JS Editors differentiate between the different error conditions? 15:16:23 .. could the user re-request? E.g., if the user didn't grant permission? 15:18:09 whsieh_: recap; there are cases where a website might want to know whether they can try again, or whether they shouldn't try again. 15:18:21 .. empty list vs throw error could be a way to differentiate. 15:18:27 johanneswilm: there are two other cases... 15:18:47 .. one where the user didn't give access, and one where the clipboard is changed after access is granted. 15:19:03 whsieh_: in the first case, Safari throws "NotAllowed" (from the user denying paste). 15:19:37 .. in the case where it changed, we also throw an error; but the type of error may not make sense... 15:19:51 .. could look at changing it? 15:20:03 (no resolution yet) 15:20:26 topic: selection API 15:20:28 github: https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/403 15:21:04 johanneswilm: We've invited folks who are working on this to come and present to us in a month! 15:21:37 .. if folks would like to follow along, please checkout the links in the issue. 15:22:17 topic: Locale support 15:22:20 github: https://github.com/w3c/virtual-keyboard/issues/17 15:22:27 johanneswilm: we talked about this last time. 15:22:38 .. I think Microsoft wanted to get more info before continuing... 15:22:52 .. alex; is there anything you found? 15:23:05 Anupam: Hi folks, just joined. 15:24:23 .. looks like we still need to discuss with Office. We will have to follow up before next meeting. 15:25:00 topic: declarative mechanism to enable overlay content? 15:25:04 github: https://github.com/w3c/virtual-keyboard/issues/3 15:26:40 snianu: mutliple issues here 15:27:53 .. overlayContent was set on VK (in JS) via the navigator object... 15:28:26 .. from TAG review, they requested an env variable for inset (for geometrychanged event), then these CSS variables can be used to understand occluded content. 15:29:07 .. there was some addition concern--if we have CSS env variables, then why set overlayscontent in JS? 15:29:26 .. perhaps there should just be some HTML declarative thing? 15:29:31 .. (that's the recap) 15:30:00 .. was a suggestion to never resize the visual viewport (on overlays content set) 15:30:17 .. (today on Windows we change both layout & visual viewport) 15:30:35 .. then the overlays content would only control the layout viewport 15:32:05 .. (looking up some examples to share to help explain the details) 15:33:00 https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/498 15:33:53 snianu: I think we can discuss this async... 15:34:18 johanneswilm: Are you seeking input on seeing if making the suggested (or some other proposal)? 15:34:31 .. or are you asking for agreement on the suggested syntax? 15:34:50 .. not sure if Safari is planning to implemented overlayscontent, and if so, what the behavior should be? 15:35:04 .. should it adjust layout + visual viewport. 15:35:09 .. currently only chromium supports. 15:36:22 travis: whenson, do you have any feedback on the declarative mechanism? 15:36:54 whsieh_: The behavior would apply to any element that is a focusable target for the keyboard to appear? 15:37:18 .. should the behavior "descend" into other elements? e.g., with iframe? 15:37:29 snianu: currently we're excluding iframes. 15:38:19 whsieh_: My intuition (for like messanger) might be useful in the main chat box... but in search field is may not be as appropriate (or in some other view). 15:38:57 snianu: ex: on dual-screen examples, you can split screen into two. On one screen you have a search element. Current behavior: keyboard covers both screens. 15:39:21 .. with overlayscontent flag it doesn't affect the layout of the whole page, just the element in question. 15:39:30 .. that was the original scenario that inspired the flag. 15:40:00 .. ex: in messager, w/ VK, you might want to adjust just the textbox and not the entire layout. 15:40:25 whsieh_: for a meta tag, does the web engine need to respect dynamic changes? 15:40:48 .. for declarative mechanism they may need an attribute on an element. 15:41:01 .. whsieh_ the flag on the navigator... object already offers this flexibility. 15:41:19 .. stepping back, I'm curious what the declarative mechanism (on the meta tag) would offer? 15:41:56 .. if we did add a declarative, I would be more in support of an attribute (i.e., like inputmode or similar) 15:43:20 Travis: I don't like meta tag for cases where the state will dynanically change (meta is usually for set-and-forget states), which this doesn't seem like it's really static...? 15:44:18 topic: editor projects 15:45:18 johanneswilm: there's a gathering of editor folks. 15:45:33 .. would love to get participation and have discussion/feedback from folks on this call 15:45:49 .. looking at Megan, Wenson, Travis? 15:46:10 .. and sorry, my email didn't have an subject line... (check your spam box) 15:46:36 Megan: at CSS meeting yesterday, Highlight API L2 was brought up. 15:46:58 .. Highlight API is a way to specify certain limited styles. 15:47:19 .. L2 is about interacting with these (e.g., would fire events for clicks on these) how to handle two highlights. 15:47:30 .. CSS trying to figure out where this should live? 15:47:53 .. they wondered if maybe they could bring it up for Editing WG to take on for incubation? 15:48:23 Travis: is L2 considered an incubation? 15:48:56 johanneswilm: In the beginning, Highlight API started here, then went to CSS later... 15:49:58 .. would love to have someone come back to this group in the fall (after folks back from holidays), and present to the group; discuss whether this WG is a good fit to continue some of the more interactive parts. 15:51:07 Megan: full disclosure: I'm one of the editors on the spec. 15:51:26 johanneswilm: Super! Then you would be able to present. 15:51:40 Travis: that sounds good. 15:53:34 zakim, end the meeting 15:53:34 As of this point the attendees have been johanneswilm, Travis, comandeer, GameMaker_ 15:53:36 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 15:53:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/14-editing-minutes.html Zakim 15:53:39 I am happy to have been of service, Travis; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 15:53:43 Zakim has left #editing 15:53:50 rrsagent, make logs public 17:03:22 GameMaker_ has joined #editing 17:30:25 GameMaker_ has joined #editing 17:53:53 jamesn has joined #editing 18:13:25 johanneswilm has joined #editing