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13:36:07 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/06/30-coga-irc
13:36:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:36:10 <trackbot> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:36:10 <trackbot> Date: 30 June 2022
13:36:54 <Lisa> scribe+ EA
13:37:24 <Lisa> agenda+ updates and actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.1bvszq5s0esc
13:37:49 <Lisa> action+ Holidays....
13:38:09 <Lisa>  Review ICCHP face-to-face plan <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TO-oh_T6-ql2B-WrD1JSEyqNEZ0Kc3kvDym_3Z8nYrA/edit?usp=sharing>
13:38:21 <Lisa> Finish functional needs review <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ndRziXRfnyAgDaL8ctByQagDdM36H8QxV44lO3u8zgc/edit#>
13:38:36 <Lisa> starting with new table for subgroup actions
13:46:51 <Lisa> agenda+ EO review
13:47:31 <Lisa> agenda+ Holidays and other items
13:47:49 <Lisa>  agenda+ Review ICCHP face-to-face plan <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TO-oh_T6-ql2B-WrD1JSEyqNEZ0Kc3kvDym_3Z8nYrA/edit?usp=sharing>
13:48:02 <Lisa> agenda+ Finish functional needs review <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ndRziXRfnyAgDaL8ctByQagDdM36H8QxV44lO3u8zgc/edit#>
13:48:23 <Lisa> close item 2
13:48:34 <Lisa> agenda+ EO review
13:48:45 <Lisa> agenda?
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13:57:34 <EA> +p
13:57:59 <Lisa> present+
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13:58:21 <Rain> present+
13:58:24 <EA> Present+
13:58:39 <Lisa> scribe: EA
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13:59:56 <Jennie> present+
14:00:46 <aaronchu> present+
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14:01:23 <rashmi> present+
14:01:27 <Becca_Monteleone> present+
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14:01:38 <julierawe> present+
14:01:40 <Lisa> zakim, next item
14:01:40 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- updates and actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.1bvszq5s0esc -- taken up [from Lisa]
14:03:03 <Roy> present+
14:03:26 <EA> Lisa is sharing her screen to discuss the Action items and showed a table for the requests - actions that are active, waiting or postponed. Still have the individual items on the left with sub groups at the top
14:03:40 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #COGA
14:03:47 <EA> Lisa is asking if we like this layout - hopefully clearer
14:04:45 <Jennie> Thank you for all your work as co-facilitator Rain!
14:04:49 <EA> Rain is stepping down as a co-facilitator - now Lisa feels that everyone can coordinate despite the fact there is on one facilitator now
14:04:58 <Rain> I'm still going to be very active :)
14:05:04 <julierawe> +1. Huge thanks to Rain!
14:05:04 <EA> Thank you Rain
14:05:06 <Jennie> Very thankful for that!
14:05:07 <ShawnT> present+
14:05:24 <Rain> +1 to giving this a try
14:05:24 <Jennie> +1 to trying the table
14:05:28 <aaronchu> yes, please
14:05:30 <ShawnT> +1
14:05:30 <Le> Le has joined #coga
14:05:34 <Becca_Monteleone> +1
14:05:36 <EA> +1 to trying the table
14:05:40 <Le> present+
14:05:53 <EA> Several agreed to using the table
14:06:13 <cweidner> cweidner has joined #COGA
14:06:27 <cweidner> present+
14:06:29 <EA> Rashmi is taking over sub group leader for Lisa - Lit review needed
14:06:44 <kirkwood> present+
14:06:44 <EA> Which sub group is this?
14:07:07 <EA> Meant to finish by September and Lisa has started the analysis
14:08:13 <EA> This is the mental health group that is being discussed.  All KPIs have been added to all the subgroups.  Lisa mentioned there is a need for a face to face with a discussion about the patterns that have come out of it all.
14:08:46 <EA> Rashmi confirmed that this was a good start but need to now discuss the patterns to add in Content Usable and invited more people to join
14:09:30 <EA> Links are also available to all the groups.
14:10:21 <EA> Rain confirmed that she is getting out the survey and Roy was going to check that Rain had all the analytics to help with the work
14:11:08 <EA> Rain mentioned that she has received some feedback and some post graduates were looking at it all and Rain will bring it to the group next week to reach concensus to see if it can be sent out.
14:11:40 <EA> Lisa asked if there was a problem getting back comments to let us know
14:11:57 <EA> Clear Language - Subgroup lead Julie
14:13:46 <EA> Julie said that the current actions now are needed before TPAC (Sept) Protocols activity discussion with Rachael - some saying all of Cotent Usable to included as Protcol and now the clear lang group needs to consider which ones can be used with a pass/fail test and which parts of clear language are more subjectice and therefore more suitable for a protocol.
14:14:37 <EA> Need to go through and divide the information into the two groups and for each provide an example - whether it is pass/fail or protocol and share with Silver or larger group.  So sort and then do an example of each type
14:15:10 <EA> Julie said the goal is ambitious to get it done by TPAC but thinks it is possible.
14:16:38 <EA> Lisa asked for sub-dates so that it can be chunked - more detail examples and then names can be put beside each one - given clear language group and month for sorting end of July - draft of examples by end of August and final by Sept
14:17:22 <EA> Test plan and strategy - first meeting today and clear language also meeting so perhaps half an hour for each as there are so many overlaps.
14:18:08 <EA> Lisa asked Julie agreed that there is an overlap between the two groups. So agreed 1/2hr for each
14:18:51 <EA> Lisa added a KPI that was not in the time plan and that was to have at least 10 patterns ready by TPAC
14:19:27 <EA> Jennie asked if the test plan document sub folder had been viewed in Google Drive
14:20:03 <EA> Lisa asked for any other conclusions or actions to be shared in the table
14:20:46 <EA> Research plan and strategy led by Aaron - Lisa mentioned that what had been discussed were draft stakeholder questions
14:21:29 <aaronchu> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XEd6CaM2PVe2NVMmylCGwpSRmaIZPBGeM5CyJxkswFQ/edit#
14:21:30 <EA> Aaron commented that he was still catching up with most of the documents and where the sources for the information was coming from
14:21:59 <EA> Aaron put up the meeting notes and provides more information about the creation of the survey
14:22:13 <aaronchu> +1
14:22:27 <EA> Lisa is concerned that we are asking the right questions
14:23:47 <EA> Rain was concerned that this might be a different survey but Lisa confirmed that it is the same survey she has been working on - mentioned that we need to be careful not to ask too much
14:24:28 <EA> Jennie leader for images sub-group meeting on Friday due to designer not being able to make Thursday meeting times.
14:25:14 <EA> Jennie thanked group for feedback and now preparing for next stage unless others do not agree.
14:25:51 <EA> Lisa mentioned requests from other groups
14:26:22 <EA> Julie working on feedback from EO - finised side by side comparison of EO's draft and coga's rewording with explanations
14:27:31 <EA> They had not incorporated many of the suggestions and Julie is hopeful more will be included in the future - Rain has looked at it and now there is time to sharpen what is being suggested - document will be sent to the full coga list for more comments
14:27:48 <EA> Julie just checked with it being made publicly available.
14:28:06 <EA> Rain and Lisa confirmed no issue so will be sent around
14:29:02 <EA> Aaron is reviewing papers for mental health and timeline ready by September - end of whole lit review
14:29:56 <EA> Aaron admitted that he many need time to catch up and Lisa said the mental health group is meeting next week
14:30:21 <EA> Becca said that she has no further updates having discussed her work last week,
14:30:50 <EA> Jennie - guardianship draft still waiting for Michael for a meeting regarding legal aspects.
14:31:11 <EA> John K working with Jennie had nothing to add.
14:32:43 <EA> Julie feels that everything in Silver is evolving and changing - some parts of clear language will become protocols - will be giving Silver a new structure to think about
14:34:19 <EA> John K stressed to keep that knowledge about Silver's needs and encouraging the good relationship to help everyone and Silver feels we are on the right track
14:35:10 <EA> Le said that nothing was holding up her reviews just been busy
14:35:36 <Lisa> zakim, next item
14:35:36 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Holidays and other items -- taken up [from Lisa]
14:36:02 <EA> 4th July next week - attendance at the next meeting
14:36:08 <Jennie> I can attend July 7
14:36:08 <EA> EA away
14:36:10 <ShawnT> I'll be here
14:36:16 <Becca_Monteleone> I will not be able to attend
14:36:36 <EA> Lisa asked when would we be taking 2 weeks off
14:36:43 <kirkwood> JK on vacation next week
14:36:43 <Jennie> Jennie vacation: August 18
14:36:46 <EA> EA away all Sept.
14:37:07 <Rain> I am able to attend
14:37:11 <ShawnT> +1
14:37:11 <Jennie> I can attend
14:37:11 <aaronchu> +1
14:37:12 <julierawe> +1
14:37:18 <rashmi> I can attend
14:38:08 <ShawnT> I'm away the week of August 15
14:38:21 <Rain> I have no preference for September or August, but a reminder that 2nd week of September is TPAC
14:39:11 <julierawe> I can't attend on July 28 or Aug 11
14:40:26 <Lisa> suggest taking off the 11th and 18th sept
14:40:37 <julierawe> q+
14:41:52 <EA> Coga is going to TPAC but not preparing a presentation or we could just limit it to one - but do want a face to face meeting and coordinate with APA and Silver
14:42:06 <EA> Lisa asked if that sounded good?
14:42:27 <Rain> q+
14:42:35 <Lisa> ack next
14:42:37 <EA> Rachael wondered if the sorting exercise could be discussed at TPAC
14:43:27 <EA> Rain wanted to clarify that Rachael is also planning a joint meeting with another group?
14:43:48 <Lisa> zakim, next item
14:43:48 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Lisa
14:43:49 <EA> Accessibility Guidelines Working group
14:43:54 <Lisa> ack next
14:44:00 <Lisa> zakim, next item
14:44:00 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Review ICCHP face-to-face plan <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TO-oh_T6-ql2B-WrD1JSEyqNEZ0Kc3kvDym_3Z8nYrA/edit?usp=sharing> -- taken up [from Lisa]
14:44:29 <ShawnT> is TPAC open for registrations?
14:45:04 <Lisa> note icchp will be virtual as well
14:45:10 <EA> Rain - ICCHP/AAATE conference July 12-15th meeting for coga on Friday has a room
14:46:08 <Lisa> q+
14:46:17 <EA> Planning for meeting - two researchers joining from the community group.  See google doc above for conten of meeting
14:46:23 <ShawnT> TPAC Registration: "Registration will open end of June 2022."
14:47:18 <EA> Rain wants responses to attending and when so that topics can be discussed based on who will be attending.
14:47:24 <Lisa> ack next
14:48:09 <EA> Structure, Research, Planning and Mental Health are the main topics and times will be set as to who can attend virtually or face to face
14:49:23 <aaronchu> q+
14:49:46 <Lisa> ack next
14:51:32 <EA> Rain - may only get a couple of topics but will wait to see who is attending and then make decisions.
14:51:44 <Lisa> zakim, next item
14:51:44 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Finish functional needs review <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ndRziXRfnyAgDaL8ctByQagDdM36H8QxV44lO3u8zgc/edit#> -- taken up [from Lisa]
14:52:07 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ndRziXRfnyAgDaL8ctByQagDdM36H8QxV44lO3u8zgc/edit#heading=h.1sw3jym07njn
14:53:26 <EA> Functional Needs - Correct document added - need to think structurally - look at the table - Lisa asked if we were comfortable showing this to APA - with suggestions and comments
14:53:39 <EA> Or does it need more reviewing?
14:53:53 <EA> John asked if the comments need to be addressed first?
14:54:16 <EA> Lisa said she felt the comments need to be passed on - but was not sure... but gave an example
14:54:17 <julierawe> q+
14:54:50 <Lisa> ack next
14:54:54 <EA> Lisa realised that we may need to address the outgoing comments
14:55:18 <EA> Julia suggested adding a sentence that says which items are missing and below that which ones have been added
14:56:41 <EA> Lisa felt that it needs more work and Lisa offered to resolve some of the issues.  Need to address and discuss so more time needed.
14:57:05 <Lisa>  RRSAgent, make logs public
14:57:14 <EA> End of Coga meeting
14:57:57 <Rain> Thank you!
14:59:32 <Le> Is anyone still in here?
14:59:50 <Le> I forgot, Julieanne King at Knowbility asked me about joining our group.
15:00:11 <Le> Are there any special instructions for her?
15:01:54 <Jennie> I just got back Le
15:02:22 <Le> Hello Jennie :D
15:02:49 <Jennie> Lots of silence to support people taking a break
15:03:00 <Jennie> And hello to you Le!
15:08:03 <Lisa> topic: subgroups, testing and clear lang
15:08:27 <Lisa> scribe+  lisa
15:08:52 <Lisa> https://www.w3.org/2022/06/02-coga-minutes.html
15:09:01 <julierawe> present+
15:10:20 <aaronchu> present+
15:12:46 <ShawnT> present+
15:13:22 <Jennie> I will reach out next week, Shawn, to set up a meeting to chat about how to proceed.
15:13:46 <ShawnT> Perfect Jennie, you know how to reach me
15:14:28 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Otsl4HTCvpQj63xYVKzOVkulf6o75dWEthu6WI9Vtj8/edit#
15:19:57 <julierawe> q+
15:20:19 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/12N3Fh-B6jMK7HPcqbxH6QwoRe1SCtfBRSeVQrX7gO6s/edit
15:27:59 <kirkwood> my thoughts for  a test should make sure things are “consistent” (with location and style) across pages?
15:29:15 <Lisa> ack next
15:29:41 <ShawnT> I think "it depends"
15:29:54 <Becca_Monteleone> +q
15:30:25 <kirkwood> q+
15:31:43 <Lisa> ack next
15:32:18 <aaronchu> +1
15:34:46 <julierawe> q+
15:35:01 <kirkwood> q-
15:36:43 <Lisa> ack next
15:37:18 <Jennie> q+
15:37:31 <Lisa> ack next
15:40:21 <Lisa> Q+
15:40:46 <Lisa> ack next
15:41:23 <Lisa> what language depends on the group
15:42:02 <Lisa> EA: 1500 words are all online , but that does not meen they are used by all people but by most people
15:42:07 <Becca_Monteleone> Those frequency studies very rarely include people with intellecutal disabilities/learning disabilities
15:42:14 <Lisa> how is the list built, what is the context?
15:43:12 <Lisa> Lisa: it is a continum
15:43:25 <Lisa> EA top words are working word and conjuctions
15:43:37 <Lisa> place names are often missing
15:44:14 <Lisa> lisa: 1. pick a word list
15:44:27 <Jennie> q+
15:44:32 <Lisa> age, edu, language and they are all on line
15:45:37 <Lisa> lisa and EA: what are core vocableries used, what is the fringe vocabery.
15:46:02 <Lisa> finge are vitat (names place) but local context
15:46:12 <Lisa> or subject refrence
15:46:54 <Roy> Roy has joined #coga
15:47:13 <julierawe> q+
15:47:16 <Lisa> Jenie: I am familure with core, good starting point , but i am concenred about bias, of  thoughs running the protacal
15:47:28 <Lisa> lisa: that is why protocal is imals
15:47:33 <Lisa> important
15:47:48 <Jennie> ack Jennie
15:48:30 <Lisa> we need to test our protocals address our biasses
15:49:00 <Becca_Monteleone> +1 to user testing
15:49:21 <ShawnT> +1 user testing protocols
15:49:32 <Lisa> Julie: we can give a lot of help (details) on how to do user testing protocals for our groups
15:50:15 <Lisa> Lisa: we got kickback from EO
15:50:51 <ShawnT> Would it be good to get someone from who is in a specialist in user testing field (sorry if we already have someone in the group in this field?)
15:51:01 <ShawnT> q+
15:51:06 <Jennie> +1 to Shawn's idea
15:51:13 <julierawe> +1
15:51:13 <Lisa> See if we get possitve feedback on a draft
15:51:19 <julierawe> q-
15:51:59 <Lisa> q?
15:52:02 <julierawe> q+
15:52:48 <Lisa> rain: we have expertiease coming from google
15:53:00 <ShawnT> q-
15:53:15 <ShawnT> I can reach out to my contacts at Fable
15:53:36 <Lisa> ack j
15:53:58 <kirkwood> clear controls i put in some suggestions
15:55:00 <Lisa> john: contraols should be consistent
15:56:24 <kirkwood> controls should be consistent in style treatment and location. was what seemed to be missing thats all
16:00:01 <Lisa> julie: thinks about what makes a protocal rigueris
16:02:00 <Rain> I have to drop for another meeting! Bye for now
16:03:37 <Lisa> Jennie: I can bring in experts of biasss
16:03:53 <Lisa> taht we are compfortable with the language
16:04:01 <ShawnT> +1
16:04:13 <Lisa> snd a process on what to do if people identify a gap
16:04:29 <Lisa> john: that involved divercity of people involved
16:04:31 <julierawe> Great conversation! I have to leave now for the airport!
16:04:56 <Lisa> Jennie addeding this to the document
16:05:47 <Jennie> Have to drop - have a good week!
16:06:01 <Lisa> ask jamie, he close freind in banking protocals.
16:06:19 <kirkwood> bye all!
16:07:11 <Lisa> jamie and lion
16:07:34 <aaronchu> Thanks everyone
16:08:22 <Lisa>  RRSAgent, make logs public
16:08:35 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:08:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/30-coga-minutes.html Lisa
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