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15:02:05 <gkatsev> zakim, start meeting
15:02:05 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:02:07 <Zakim> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
15:02:23 <gkatsev> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/220
15:02:32 <gkatsev> Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2022/06/09-tt-minutes.html
15:02:40 <gkatsev> scribe: gkatsev
15:02:44 <gkatsev> Chair: Gary
15:02:49 <gkatsev> Regrets: Nigel
15:03:31 <gkatsev> Present: Pierre, Andreas, Cyricl, Hewson
15:03:42 <gkatsev> Present+ Atushi
15:03:57 <gkatsev> Topic: This meeting
15:04:33 <gkatsev> gkatsev: TPAC update
15:04:38 <gkatsev> .. there's some time for DAPT as well
15:04:49 <gkatsev> .. Rechartering status update
15:05:08 <gkatsev> .. Timed Text in Low Latency Streaming applications
15:05:15 <gkatsev> .. Behavior with controls
15:05:32 <gkatsev> .. Are there any AOB items?
15:05:47 <gkatsev> Topic: TPAC update
15:06:22 <gkatsev> gkatsev: We have time scheduled Thursday and Friday mornings local time
15:06:43 <gkatsev> .. 8-10am joint meeting with MEIG
15:06:57 <gkatsev> .. 10:30-12:30 for just the TTWG
15:07:37 <gkatsev> .. Friday, 8-13:30 joint meeting between TTWG and the Media WG
15:08:30 <gkatsev> cyril: are the events only in the morning?
15:09:34 <atai> q+
15:09:41 <gkatsev> gkatsev: yeah, basically, our scheduled time is only in the morning to be inclusive of people who may not be in person
15:09:57 <gkatsev> .. but there's other meetings in the after noon as well so that there isn't overlap, like the Media WG
15:10:07 <gkatsev> ack atai
15:10:27 <gkatsev> atai: as it stands right now, Atushi and me will not be able to be in person
15:10:34 <gkatsev> .. I will definitely join the morning sessions
15:11:02 <gkatsev> .. You should make as best usage of the time in person
15:12:03 <gkatsev> gkatsev: we want to make sure we didn't overlap with other groups
15:12:17 <gkatsev> .. and we did it Thursday and Friday to make sure that folks that are at IBC beforehand can still make the meeting in person
15:13:02 <gkatsev> Topic: DAPT
15:13:24 <gkatsev> gkatsev: I saw that Cyril's PR first version PR got merged
15:13:45 <gkatsev> cyril: the PR was merged to make it easier to review
15:13:51 <gkatsev> .. Nigel and Andreas opened several issues
15:13:57 <gkatsev> .. Didn't have much time to review them beforehand
15:14:05 <gkatsev> .. They appear very relevant
15:14:13 <gkatsev> .. I will work on preparing pull requests to address those
15:14:27 <gkatsev> .. There is one question (#5) about relationship about profile and IMSC
15:14:39 <gkatsev> .. It's a valid question
15:14:48 <gkatsev> .. Leaning towards DAPT being based on IMSC 1.1
15:15:04 <gkatsev> -> https://github.com/w3c/dapt/issues/5 Is the basis for DAPT IMSC 1.1 or is it an independent spec with common provisions?
15:15:17 <gkatsev> .. Using IMSC 1.1 as a basis seems like a good start
15:16:05 <gkatsev> Topic: Rechartering status update
15:16:25 <gkatsev> gkatsev: Our charter is expiring at the end of the month
15:17:30 <gkatsev> .. I'll make sure to talk catch up with Nigel on this
15:17:42 <gkatsev> Pierre: no further thoughts
15:17:47 <gkatsev> .. my opinion is still the same
15:17:57 <gkatsev> .. If we don't solve it now, we'll need to solve it later
15:18:05 <gkatsev> .. The longer we wait the more dramatic it'll be
15:18:22 <gkatsev> atai: this PR could be accepted but it'll just delay things
15:18:27 <gkatsev> Pierre: my preference would be to solve it now
15:18:42 <gkatsev> .. It's a big discussion and goes to the heart of should charters be able to override the process
15:18:59 <gkatsev> .. I think it's an absolute bad idea, but in this specific case
15:19:12 <gkatsev> .. the industry doesn't benefit from having two HRM implementations
15:19:33 <gkatsev> .. It's bad because the charter is overriding the process and it's bad for this specific case
15:20:23 <gkatsev> atsushi: Several issues are open in the process CG
15:20:30 <atsushi> https://github.com/w3c/w3process/issues/167
15:20:49 <gkatsev> .. This issue targets Process 2022 version
15:20:56 <gkatsev> .. Though, it's only a target
15:21:32 <gkatsev> .. I'll ask to make sure it's in focus this year
15:22:21 <atai> q+
15:22:56 <gkatsev> gkatsev: we should decide whether we want to merge the PR in or continue getting charter extensions
15:23:04 <gkatsev> Pierre: I don't want two implementations for this case
15:23:18 <gkatsev> .. I don't expect a second implementation, there's no need for one, I think
15:23:35 <gkatsev> .. if this project is going to be stopped when we'll get to PR, we should stop now
15:23:42 <gkatsev> .. or be willing to be in CR forever
15:23:53 <gkatsev> .. I don't think we should go forward expecting a second implementation
15:24:37 <gkatsev> gkatsev: especially with how this statement is, we can make the case for this implementation
15:25:06 <gkatsev> Pierre: we could as a group make a statement that we would welcome a second implementation but we don't expect one
15:25:21 <gkatsev> .. and that we expect it to be validated via testing and independant content
15:25:46 <gkatsev> atai: So, this should mean that this isn't a hard requirement, for a second requirement
15:25:57 <gkatsev> .. but might come up in the AC review
15:26:57 <gkatsev> .. Maybe a compromise is to explicitly mention the HRM as an exception
15:27:44 <gkatsev> gkatsev: definitely a possibility, if HRM is the main issue with the two implemention SHOULD statement
15:28:01 <gkatsev> Pierre: would be awkward but definitely would work
15:28:08 <gkatsev> .. The definition of compromise
15:29:00 <gkatsev> gkatsev: yeah, I think it's reasonable to ask whether this is a valid option
15:30:19 <gkatsev> Topic: Timed Text in Low Latency Streaming applications
15:30:30 <gkatsev> atai: I've got something to add for LL DASH
15:30:41 <gkatsev> .. we definitely need to come back to a meeting with Mike Dolan and Nigel
15:30:51 <gkatsev> .. Monday was a DASHjs user meeting and I attended
15:31:01 <gkatsev> .. Brought up the issue we were discussing
15:31:08 <gkatsev> .. From their view, they didn't see an issue
15:31:26 <gkatsev> .. They were convinced it was possible to chunk ttml where you repeat pieces
15:31:40 <gkatsev> .. They were open to collaborate on a demo case that could be highlighted on the DASHjs page
15:31:47 <gkatsev> .. Would need an issue filed against DASHjs
15:31:51 <gkatsev> .. And test materical
15:31:57 <gkatsev> .. That was their official statement
15:32:05 <gkatsev> .. But they don't see a need to change any specs
15:32:21 <gkatsev> .. Also had a discussions with a main contributor who worked on a lot of subtitles
15:32:34 <gkatsev> .. In Part 30 there's a limitation to only 1 document per fragment
15:32:43 <gkatsev> .. You could have more fragements per segment
15:32:51 <gkatsev> .. You could use short fragments as chunks
15:33:17 <gkatsev> .. There's been also willingness on collaborating on testing and demos
15:33:42 <gkatsev> .. The best way forward would be to collaborate with them and see if there's really an issue
15:34:28 <gkatsev> gkatsev: is it per fragment or per mdat with multiple mdats?
15:34:44 <gkatsev> cyrcil: I took a look since I was confused
15:35:05 <gkatsev> .. it says "when resources are stored in a sample, the track fragment box should contain
15:35:11 <gkatsev> .. entry count
15:35:27 <gkatsev> .. should be set to 1, since each should contain subtitle"
15:35:51 <gkatsev> .. You can still have multiple track fragments, but it's worth looking at, thanks
15:37:10 <gkatsev> gkatsev: yeah, I think it would be great to work with them and figure out the limitations
15:38:24 <gkatsev> gkatsev: [adjourns]
15:39:59 <gkatsev> RRSAgent: make minutes
15:39:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-tt-minutes.html gkatsev
15:40:44 <gkatsev> RRSAgent: make logs public
15:41:49 <gkatsev> i/gkatsev: [adjourns]/Topic: Meeting Close
15:41:54 <gkatsev> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:41:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-tt-minutes.html gkatsev
15:42:51 <gkatsev> scribe: Gary
15:42:54 <gkatsev> scribenick: gkatsev
15:44:35 <gkatsev> i/gkatsev: [adjourns]/[checks with everyone that there aren't any topics]
15:45:08 <gkatsev> s/gkatsev: [adjourns]/.. Thanks everyone, let's adjourn early today. [adjourns meeting]
15:45:20 <gkatsev> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:45:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-tt-minutes.html gkatsev
15:46:35 <gkatsev> s/RRSAgent: make minutes//
15:46:41 <gkatsev> s/RRSAgent: make logs public//
15:46:46 <gkatsev> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:46:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-tt-minutes.html gkatsev
15:47:34 <gkatsev> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:47:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-tt-minutes.html gkatsev
15:47:57 <gkatsev> i/[checks/gkatsev:
15:47:58 <gkatsev> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:47:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-tt-minutes.html gkatsev
15:49:43 <gkatsev> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:49:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-tt-minutes.html gkatsev
15:53:01 <gkatsev> RRSAgent, make minutes
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16:06:35 <atsushi> rrsagent, publish minutes
16:06:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-tt-minutes.html atsushi