IRC log of miniapp on 2022-06-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:53:02 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #miniapp
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-miniapp-irc
11:53:14 [xfq]
Meeting: MiniApps CG Teleconference
11:53:18 [xfq]
present+
11:53:23 [xfq]
scribe: xfq
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rrsagent, make log public
11:53:31 [xfq]
rrsagent, make minutes
11:53:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-miniapp-minutes.html xfq
11:57:06 [xfq]
present+ xiaoping_zhao
12:01:03 [xiaoqian]
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present+ zitao
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present+ yanyumeng
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present+ martin
12:02:46 [xiaoqian]
present+
12:03:35 [xfq]
topic: components
12:03:41 [xfq]
[martin shares his screen]
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martin: this is also related to https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/issues/190
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... please review the diagram
12:04:46 [xfq]
... regarding to components
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... we have been discussing internally
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... I will describe briefly about the diff with web components
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[martin describes his proposal]
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... reusing the HTMLElement interface
12:07:35 [xfq]
... the current MiniApp impls follow the mvvm pattern
12:08:13 [xfq]
... regarding the common events, I won't go into details here
12:08:23 [xfq]
... most of these events are similar to dom events
12:08:39 [xfq]
... longpress, swipe, etc. are not in the standard events
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... in case those are not standards we can propose to existing WGs
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... or just discuss them based on existing dom events
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... i think the proposed solution is to use the standard html+dom
12:10:02 [xfq]
... it would be compatible with the existing html+dom standards
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... some discussions in the open issue some folks recommend us using existing standards
12:10:46 [xfq]
... if they're not in the current standards we can propose them in the relavant WGs
12:10:57 [xfq]
[martin shows a list of basic elements]
12:11:49 [xfq]
... some of them have equivalent elements in html
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... we can just change the name
12:12:12 [xfq]
... some are under discussion under the openui CG
12:12:33 [xfq]
... in terms of the structure of the markup language, events, and attributes
12:13:56 [xfq]
... the best way to do it is to propose them to the openui cg
12:14:29 [xfq]
... some elements list list
12:14:37 [xfq]
... we have html elements that are related
12:14:45 [xfq]
... but we have other requirements
12:14:50 [xfq]
... so we can use web components
12:15:03 [xfq]
... we can reach out to the open ui cg
12:15:28 [xfq]
... if we can reuse the existing elements we can just use it
12:16:12 [xfq]
... some challenges we have include new elements not in the html spec, but somehow in frameworks
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... 2) similar elements, like <image>, <progress>, <text>, etc.
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... @@
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... 3) non-standard attributes in MiniApp components
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... like disable and focusable
12:17:50 [xfq]
... we can adapt and use the standard attributes
12:18:28 [xfq]
... or create a basic MiniAppElement that extends HTMLElement, but this prevents MiniApps from using web components
12:18:38 [xfq]
... in the case of events
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... we can adopt the standard events like PointerEvents
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... for new events we can propose to relevant WGs if needed
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... @@
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... once we have consensus we can start writing the proposals
12:20:20 [xfq]
... we should document what are really in the standards
12:20:27 [xfq]
... in a note
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... requirements
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... subset of CSS features we use
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... also for events etc.
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... if we push a new solution
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... for a non-HTML-based standard
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... we need to crfeate a domain specific language based on xml
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... create an xml schema
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... and scripting
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... these are the two main options
12:22:21 [xfq]
... 1) following the standards; 2) bring a new set of languages and new model for MiniApps
12:22:41 [xfq]
... also, we can use SVG for graphics
12:23:22 [xfq]
... we can find examples of how to define elements, how to do styling
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... we can also look into ttml
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... in case we need to create a vocabulary
12:24:11 [xfq]
zitao: we have disucssed this for a long time
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... especially how to make it compatible with existing specs
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... how to develop standards that make sense
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... how to move the proposal forward?
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xiaoqian: thank you
12:25:37 [xfq]
... excellent presentation
12:25:47 [xfq]
... wonder whether you can share this with the public
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... Mike Smith is in the html WG
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... i wonder if you'd like to ask his opinion on this work
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martin: it's also interesting to hear other vendors' opinions
12:27:15 [maritn]
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xiaoqian: we should get more attention from other people in the w3c community
12:27:28 [maritn]
present +
12:27:39 [maritn]
present+ Martin
12:27:42 [xfq]
... can we have a breakout session in tpac about MiniApp components?
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... or an agenda item in the MiniApps WG meeting?
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xiaoqian: tpac is just like two months away from now
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... we can prepare for tpac
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martin: i think it's important having this discussion
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xiaoqian: as a follow up we should get opinions from alibaba, baidu, xiaomi, and other MiniApp vendors
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... we can set a deadline for comments
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maritn: we can set a special meeting on this if anyone wants to discuss this
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present+ dan
12:30:16 [xfq]
dan: i agree to reuse html elements
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... we can have more readability and SEO
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... i don't know if developers are allowed to access the dom in js
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... currently the dom is not allowed to be accessed for security and perf reasons
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maritn: it could be a subset of html elements for any reason, I don't know
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... full css is not mandatory
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... for scripting we can restrict for security or other reasons
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... for apis we can have similar discussions
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... perhaps in a dedicated spec
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dan: we can discuss when we have some concrete proposal
12:33:01 [xfq]
maritn: for epub they define attributes for ebooks
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... subset of css
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... also with scripting
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zitao: another topic is api
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... if we want to discuss it in a tpac breakout session
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... we can discuss it in the later tpac-related agenda
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dan: we can do more work on ui components and api
12:35:43 [maritn]
+1 to a session on UI Components and APIs at TPAC
12:36:35 [xfq]
dan: can we collect topics in an issue?
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regrets+ qing
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dan: so that other people can give their opinions
12:36:58 [xfq]
topic: testing
12:37:15 [maritn]
Open issue: https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/issues/182#issuecomment-1162949151
12:37:46 [xfq]
maritn: the idea is to reuse epub tests
12:38:07 [xfq]
s/epub tests/the structure of epub tests/
12:38:26 [xfq]
maritn: we can include both the docs and the tests
12:38:38 [xfq]
... anyone from the community can help us
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... to create new test cases
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... we can classify the topics
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[martin shows an example test]
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maritn: must vs should
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... the system will automatically generate the docs
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... the test is a json-ld document
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... we can link the test and the spec
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... in the spec we can see the test coverage
12:47:00 [xfq]
... it's already proven in the epub testing process
12:47:50 [xfq]
... the system can automatically generate a MiniApp package
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... this is the idea
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... if you agree with the methodology we can move forward
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... we can do it in many other ways but i think this is a way to do it easily
12:50:53 [xfq]
dan: very wonderful example for us to learn
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xiaoqian: I agree
12:51:03 [xfq]
... excellent work
12:51:25 [xfq]
... I think for this part the wg and cg should work on a chinese version of the readme
12:51:51 [xfq]
... some contributors may have some difficulties reading english
12:52:02 [xfq]
maritn: i think if we agree to use this approach
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... we can develop this as soon as possible
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<xfq> +1
12:53:23 [xfq]
maritn: i'd be glad to explain more technical details if anyone is interested
12:53:35 [xfq]
dan: i need to look into it to see if i can help you
12:54:08 [xfq]
topic: widget
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[xiaoping shows his screen]
12:54:40 [xfq]
xiaoping: i'll introduce the draft widget spec
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[xiaoping shows the outline of the widget spec]
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[xiaoping shows the outline of the widget spec]
12:56:16 [xfq]
[xiaoping explains the terminologies]
12:56:45 [xfq]
xiaoping: unlike MiniApp pages, there isn't a start widget for a MiniApp widget
13:00:33 [xfq]
dan: thank you
13:00:41 [xfq]
... I look forward to the PR
13:01:04 [xfq]
zitao: i also look forward to the PR
13:01:16 [xfq]
... some work is related to existing WG work
13:01:22 [xfq]
... especially the lifecycle work
13:02:27 [xfq]
https://github.com/w3c/miniapp-widget/pull/11
13:02:35 [xfq]
dan: we can review this PR
13:03:21 [xfq]
dan: next cg meeting will be july 21
13:03:36 [maritn]
+1 July 21 for next meeting
13:03:43 [xfq]
xiaoqian: w3c web apps wg is waiting for our feedback about joint meeting on manifest
13:04:20 [xfq]
... xfq can you create an issue for that?
13:04:22 [xfq]
xfq: yes
13:05:00 [xfq]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:05:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-miniapp-minutes.html xfq
14:33:22 [Zakim]
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