11:53:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #miniapp
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11:53:14 <xfq> Meeting: MiniApps CG Teleconference
11:53:18 <xfq> present+
11:53:23 <xfq> scribe: xfq
11:53:29 <xfq> rrsagent, make log public
11:53:31 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
11:53:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-miniapp-minutes.html xfq
11:57:06 <xfq> present+ xiaoping_zhao
12:01:03 <xiaoqian> xiaoqian has joined #miniapp
12:02:06 <xfq> present+ zitao
12:02:12 <xfq> present+ yanyumeng
12:02:18 <xfq> present+ martin
12:02:46 <xiaoqian> present+
12:03:35 <xfq> topic: components
12:03:41 <xfq> [martin shares his screen]
12:04:23 <xfq> martin: this is also related to https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/issues/190
12:04:39 <xfq> ... please review the diagram
12:04:46 <xfq> ... regarding to components
12:05:00 <xfq> ... we have been discussing internally
12:05:21 <xfq> ... I will describe briefly about the diff with web components
12:07:02 <xfq> [martin describes his proposal]
12:07:22 <xfq> ... reusing the HTMLElement interface
12:07:35 <xfq> ... the current MiniApp impls follow the mvvm pattern
12:08:13 <xfq> ... regarding the common events, I won't go into details here
12:08:23 <xfq> ... most of these events are similar to dom events
12:08:39 <xfq> ... longpress, swipe, etc. are not in the standard events
12:09:14 <xfq> ... in case those are not standards we can propose to existing WGs
12:09:30 <xfq> ... or just discuss them based on existing dom events
12:09:44 <xfq> ... i think the proposed solution is to use the standard html+dom
12:10:02 <xfq> ... it would be compatible with the existing html+dom standards
12:10:27 <xfq> ... some discussions in the open issue some folks recommend us using existing standards
12:10:46 <xfq> ... if they're not in the current standards we can propose them in the relavant WGs
12:10:57 <xfq> [martin shows a list of basic elements]
12:11:49 <xfq> ... some of them have equivalent elements in html
12:11:56 <xfq> ... we can just change the name
12:12:12 <xfq> ... some are under discussion under the openui CG
12:12:33 <xfq> ... in terms of the structure of the markup language, events, and attributes
12:13:56 <xfq> ... the best way to do it is to propose them to the openui cg
12:14:29 <xfq> ... some elements list list
12:14:37 <xfq> ... we have html elements that are related
12:14:45 <xfq> ... but we have other requirements
12:14:50 <xfq> ... so we can use web components
12:15:03 <xfq> ... we can reach out to the open ui cg
12:15:28 <xfq> ... if we can reuse the existing elements we can just use it
12:16:12 <xfq> ... some challenges we have include new elements not in the html spec, but somehow in frameworks
12:16:46 <xfq> ... 2) similar elements, like <image>, <progress>, <text>, etc.
12:17:01 <xfq> ... @@
12:17:16 <xfq> ... 3) non-standard attributes in MiniApp components
12:17:31 <xfq> ... like disable and focusable
12:17:50 <xfq> ... we can adapt and use the standard attributes
12:18:28 <xfq> ... or create a basic MiniAppElement that extends HTMLElement, but this prevents MiniApps from using web components
12:18:38 <xfq> ... in the case of events
12:19:07 <xfq> ... we can adopt the standard events like PointerEvents
12:19:39 <xfq> ... for new events we can propose to relevant WGs if needed
12:19:47 <xfq> ... @@
12:20:02 <xfq> ... once we have consensus we can start writing the proposals
12:20:20 <xfq> ... we should document what are really in the standards
12:20:27 <xfq> ... in a note
12:20:39 <xfq> ... requirements
12:20:55 <xfq> ... subset of CSS features we use
12:21:07 <xfq> ... also for events etc.
12:21:13 <xfq> ... if we push a new solution
12:21:25 <xfq> ... for a non-HTML-based standard
12:21:38 <xfq> ... we need to crfeate a domain specific language based on xml
12:21:45 <xfq> ... create an xml schema
12:21:53 <xfq> ... and scripting
12:22:02 <xfq> ... these are the two main options
12:22:21 <xfq> ... 1) following the standards; 2) bring a new set of languages and new model for MiniApps
12:22:41 <xfq> ... also, we can use SVG for graphics
12:23:22 <xfq> ... we can find examples of how to define elements, how to do styling
12:23:30 <xfq> ... we can also look into ttml
12:23:42 <xfq> ... in case we need to create a vocabulary
12:24:11 <xfq> zitao: we have disucssed this for a long time
12:24:29 <xfq> ... especially how to make it compatible with existing specs
12:24:39 <xfq> ... how to develop standards that make sense
12:25:08 <xfq> ... how to move the proposal forward?
12:25:31 <xfq> xiaoqian: thank you
12:25:37 <xfq> ... excellent presentation
12:25:47 <xfq> ... wonder whether you can share this with the public
12:25:57 <xfq> ... Mike Smith is in the html WG
12:26:21 <xfq> ... i wonder if you'd like to ask his opinion on this work
12:26:40 <xfq> martin: it's also interesting to hear other vendors' opinions
12:27:15 <maritn> maritn has joined #miniapp
12:27:18 <xfq> xiaoqian: we should get more attention from other people in the w3c community
12:27:28 <maritn> present +
12:27:39 <maritn> present+ Martin
12:27:42 <xfq> ... can we have a breakout session in tpac about MiniApp components?
12:27:57 <xfq> ... or an agenda item in the MiniApps WG meeting?
12:28:09 <xfq> xiaoqian: tpac is just like two months away from now
12:28:19 <xfq> ... we can prepare for tpac
12:28:53 <xfq> martin: i think it's important having this discussion
12:29:19 <xfq> xiaoqian: as a follow up we should get opinions from alibaba, baidu, xiaomi, and other MiniApp vendors
12:29:34 <xfq> ... we can set a deadline for comments
12:30:03 <xfq> maritn: we can set a special meeting on this if anyone wants to discuss this
12:30:10 <xfq> present+ dan
12:30:16 <xfq> dan: i agree to reuse html elements
12:30:30 <xfq> ... we can have more readability and SEO
12:30:43 <xfq> ... i don't know if developers are allowed to access the dom in js
12:31:02 <xfq> ... currently the dom is not allowed to be accessed for security and perf reasons
12:31:16 <xfq> maritn: it could be a subset of html elements for any reason, I don't know
12:31:23 <xfq> ... full css is not mandatory
12:31:40 <xfq> ... for scripting we can restrict for security or other reasons
12:31:51 <xfq> ... for apis we can have similar discussions
12:32:00 <xfq> ... perhaps in a dedicated spec
12:32:45 <xfq> dan: we can discuss when we have some concrete proposal
12:33:01 <xfq> maritn: for epub they define attributes for ebooks
12:33:09 <xfq> ... subset of css
12:33:19 <xfq> ... also with scripting
12:33:51 <xfq> zitao: another topic is api
12:34:04 <xfq> ... if we want to discuss it in a tpac breakout session
12:34:34 <xfq> ... we can discuss it in the later tpac-related agenda
12:35:33 <xfq> dan: we can do more work on ui components and api
12:35:43 <maritn> +1 to a session on UI Components and APIs at TPAC
12:36:35 <xfq> dan: can we collect topics in an issue?
12:36:39 <xfq> regrets+ qing
12:36:53 <xfq> dan: so that other people can give their opinions
12:36:58 <xfq> topic: testing
12:37:15 <maritn> Open issue: https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/issues/182#issuecomment-1162949151
12:37:46 <xfq> maritn: the idea is to reuse epub tests
12:38:07 <xfq> s/epub tests/the structure of epub tests/
12:38:26 <xfq> maritn: we can include both the docs and the tests
12:38:38 <xfq> ... anyone from the community can help us
12:38:45 <xfq> ... to create new test cases
12:39:29 <xfq> ... we can classify the topics
12:40:10 <xfq> [martin shows an example test]
12:41:04 <xfq> maritn: must vs should
12:42:43 <xfq> ... the system will automatically generate the docs
12:43:10 <xfq> ... the test is a json-ld document
12:46:18 <xfq> ... we can link the test and the spec
12:46:48 <xfq> ... in the spec we can see the test coverage
12:47:00 <xfq> ... it's already proven in the epub testing process
12:47:50 <xfq> ... the system can automatically generate a MiniApp package
12:49:48 <xfq> ... this is the idea
12:50:00 <xfq> ... if you agree with the methodology we can move forward
12:50:31 <xfq> ... we can do it in many other ways but i think this is a way to do it easily
12:50:53 <xfq> dan: very wonderful example for us to learn
12:50:59 <xfq> xiaoqian: I agree
12:51:03 <xfq> ... excellent work
12:51:25 <xfq> ... I think for this part the wg and cg should work on a chinese version of the readme
12:51:51 <xfq> ... some contributors may have some difficulties reading english
12:52:02 <xfq> maritn: i think if we agree to use this approach
12:52:17 <xfq> ... we can develop this as soon as possible
12:52:31 <xfq> <xfq> +1
12:53:23 <xfq> maritn: i'd be glad to explain more technical details if anyone is interested
12:53:35 <xfq> dan: i need to look into it to see if i can help you
12:54:08 <xfq> topic: widget
12:54:21 <xfq> [xiaoping shows his screen]
12:54:40 <xfq> xiaoping: i'll introduce the draft widget spec
12:54:58 <xfq> [xiaoping shows the outline of the widget spec]
12:56:05 <xfq> [xiaoping shows the outline of the widget spec]
12:56:16 <xfq> [xiaoping explains the terminologies]
12:56:45 <xfq> xiaoping: unlike MiniApp pages, there isn't a start widget for a MiniApp widget
13:00:33 <xfq> dan: thank you
13:00:41 <xfq> ... I look forward to the PR
13:01:04 <xfq> zitao: i also look forward to the PR
13:01:16 <xfq> ... some work is related to existing WG work
13:01:22 <xfq> ... especially the lifecycle work
13:02:27 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/miniapp-widget/pull/11
13:02:35 <xfq> dan: we can review this PR
13:03:21 <xfq> dan: next cg meeting will be july 21
13:03:36 <maritn> +1 July 21 for next meeting
13:03:43 <xfq> xiaoqian: w3c web apps wg is waiting for our feedback about joint meeting on manifest
13:04:20 <xfq> ... xfq can you create an issue for that?
13:04:22 <xfq> xfq: yes
13:05:00 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
13:05:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-miniapp-minutes.html xfq
14:33:22 <Zakim> Zakim has left #miniapp