16:53:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:53:18 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-aria-irc
16:53:20 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:53:21 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
16:53:23 <jamesn> meeting: ARIA WG
16:53:29 <jamesn> chair: JamesNurthen
16:53:39 <jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
16:53:39 <agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
16:53:40 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2b92a902-1365-4ea0-8c68-9f8ae2106fe3/20220623T130000
16:53:40 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:53:40 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3bh9p4z
16:53:40 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3tTNEhT
16:53:42 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates
16:53:45 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Consider adding a 'decorative image' role https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1746
16:53:48 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Tidying up section "Characteristics of Roles" https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1733
16:53:51 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Does aria-hidden obey DOM or AX tree ancestors? https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1714
16:53:54 <agendabot> agenda+  -> 1.3 issues https://1drv.ms/x/s!AnttaxUMZAxE1htDcbxbEYMQu73Z
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16:55:25 <jamesn> regrets+ BryanGaraventa
16:55:35 <jamesn> regrets+ PeterKrautzberger
16:56:06 <jamesn> agenda?
16:56:11 <jamesn> present+
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17:05:34 <jamesn> scribe: chlane
17:05:36 <chlane> scribe: chlane
17:05:40 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:05:40 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3bh9p4z -- taken up [from agendabot]
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17:06:22 <chlane> #415 htmlaam dont do anythng wo scott
17:06:38 <chlane> core-aam#125
17:06:55 <chlane> get filed on OWL w/ flag
17:07:04 <chlane> #124
17:07:05 <chlane> yes
17:07:11 <chlane> #414
17:07:25 <chlane> accname computation,
17:07:38 <chlane> for input type image
17:09:17 <chlane> 5 can never be true
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17:09:46 <chlane> in 4.3.1 in accname computation
17:09:58 <chlane> clarify what a usable text string is
17:09:59 <StefanS> present+
17:10:10 <chlane> empty string is not valid
17:11:01 <chlane> #162, accname lazy loading script
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17:11:22 <chlane> jamesn: accname cant do anything with it
17:11:38 <chlane> because visibility hidden is one them
17:12:17 <chlane> script cant differentiate between normal functionality of the page and visiblity hidden
17:12:35 <chlane> bug in the the lazy loading script
17:13:56 <chlane> #DA its an implementation detail
17:14:34 <chlane> #1759
17:14:42 <chlane> revisit aria setsize = 1
17:14:51 <chlane> jamesn: fix browsers to do this
17:14:56 <chlane> anyone can comment on it
17:15:33 <chlane> cleanup
17:15:46 <chlane> #1758
17:15:50 <chlane> put in 1.3
17:15:54 <chlane> by jamesn
17:16:31 <chlane> jcraig: why expose disallowed value to platform API?
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17:16:52 <chlane> jamesn: confused by spec last week
17:17:27 <chlane> jamesn: doing different things depending on mapping
17:17:55 <chlane> treated differently on different platforms super wierd
17:18:10 <chlane> jcraig: spelling grammer, parsing error,
17:18:24 <chlane> pass to API if not disallowed phasing is wierd
17:18:58 <chlane> jamesn: which, ones are platform a11y api attributes?
17:19:14 <chlane> jcraig: git blame
17:19:30 <chlane> jamesn: make sense in coreaam
17:19:35 <chlane> rather than in ARIA
17:20:33 <chlane> jamesn: needs writing that is understandable when there is an unknown or disallowed value
17:20:51 <jcraig> s/make sense/might have made sense when it was/
17:20:57 <chlane> 9.2 states and properties
17:21:40 <chlane> zakim, next agen
17:21:40 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next agen', chlane
17:21:43 <jcraig> s/git blame/nm re: git blame, since this was brought in by joanie with other merged content/
17:21:47 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:21:47 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3tTNEhT -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:21:58 <jamesn> zakim, close this item
17:21:58 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
17:21:59 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:21:59 <Zakim> 3. -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates [from agendabot]
17:22:01 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:22:01 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:22:04 <chlane> no prs
17:22:09 <jamesn> agenda?
17:22:58 <chlane> deep dive on generic mappings ok for next week
17:23:09 <chlane> zakim, next agendum
17:23:09 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- -> Consider adding a 'decorative image' role https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1746 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:26:17 <chlane> q+
17:29:10 <chlane> jamesn: tips app most images are decorative
17:29:19 <chlane> jcraig: explore by touch
17:29:44 <chlane> you will want a desc of an image that takes up 90% of the page
17:29:59 <chlane> calling this decorative is part of the baggage
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17:30:20 <chlane> StefanS: mentions project that required a desc of decoratibe image
17:30:29 <jamesn> ack chlane
17:31:44 <chlane> jamesn: more of a continuum
17:31:59 <chlane> jamesn: meaningful, stuff in the middle, spacer
17:32:10 <chlane> critical
17:32:17 <chlane> things in middle
17:32:19 <chlane> avatar
17:32:33 <chlane> alt text on avatar
17:32:50 <chlane> level of 0-10
17:33:03 <chlane> tie in with adaptive personilation
17:33:16 <chlane> jamesn: simplify UI
17:33:26 <chlane> how much visual fluff do you want
17:33:37 <chlane> jcraig: similar to verbosity
17:33:55 <chlane> if critical it's clickable
17:34:07 <chlane> verbosity set so high it doesn't matter
17:34:30 <chlane> screen reader decides to render based on heading
17:34:36 <chlane> q+
17:35:32 <jamesn> ack chlane
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17:36:34 <chlane> DA middle ground is very important
17:36:40 <chlane> to finding your way around
17:36:49 <chlane> look for a persons profile
17:36:57 <chlane> shows posts, contributions
17:37:15 <chlane> revealing those with some level of verbosity will help if wayfinding
17:37:36 <chlane> potietiallity for exposing patterns is worth exploring
17:37:44 <jcraig> q+
17:38:41 <chlane> jcraig: more detail would he needed for avatar
17:38:52 <chlane> almost like roles
17:39:08 <chlane> some people will want to minimize text
17:39:19 <chlane> can't achieve w/ verbosity
17:39:47 <chlane> jcraig: something as simple as a single spectrum should not cloud the solution
17:40:06 <chlane>  jamesn: simplification doesn't address this
17:40:43 <chlane> jcraig: wai-adapt;content module
17:41:19 <chlane> jcraig: distracted overwhelmed
17:41:24 <chlane> num of controls
17:41:48 <chlane> jamesn: that is a better direction
17:42:00 <chlane> zakim, next agendum
17:42:00 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, chlane
17:42:09 <jamesn> ack jcraig
17:42:14 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:42:14 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- -> Tidying up section "Characteristics of Roles" https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1733 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:42:33 <chlane> peter is not here
17:45:08 <chlane> it makes no sense
17:45:37 <chlane> jamesn: children presentation can't own anything
17:46:04 <chlane> jamesn: to me that's an error
17:46:18 <chlane> we should document that
17:46:40 <chlane> jamesn: user agents should not be exposing the children anyway
17:49:01 <chlane> jamesn: proposing feature for update to aria owns on roles with presentation children
17:49:11 <chlane> assinged to himself
17:49:46 <chlane> will tack aria owns restrictions in #1760
17:50:25 <chlane> I'll review #1733
17:50:29 <chlane> arigilmore: as well
17:50:45 <chlane> zakim, next agendum
17:50:45 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- -> Does aria-hidden obey DOM or AX tree ancestors? https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1714 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:51:42 <chlane> jcraig: open questions
17:51:59 <chlane> jcraig: did we define the order of the owned elements
17:52:03 <chlane> ?
17:52:13 <chlane> jamesn: not defined but generally works
17:52:19 <chlane> jamesn: used this before
17:52:43 <chlane> jcraig: if you don't point to actual children they come first
17:53:02 <chlane> jamesn: thinks the owned ones come first then everything else
17:53:16 <chlane> jcraig: can you reverse order?
17:53:28 <chlane> that would remove it
17:53:36 <chlane> from DOM relationships
17:54:02 <chlane> jcraig: surprised if these rules are interoperable between browesers
17:54:36 <chlane> jcraig: learned since last time, unlikely that we need to
17:55:26 <chlane> prolematic, more bugs
17:55:52 <chlane> an owns relationship that reorders will be a major feature project for next year
17:55:54 <chlane> jamesn:
17:56:01 <chlane> flowto failure
17:56:07 <chlane> owns solves these cases
17:56:18 <chlane> q+
17:57:27 <chlane> AT buyin is hard for new properties
17:57:40 <chlane> we have browser devs here
17:57:52 <chlane> flowto and grabbed failed due to half baked
17:57:57 <chlane> implementations
17:58:16 <chlane> flowto is a11y only navition pattertn
17:58:22 <chlane> palindrome mirrors
17:58:34 <chlane> flow to doesn't solve
17:59:04 <chlane> jamesn: only now are we doing complexity
17:59:26 <chlane> zakim, next agendum
17:59:26 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, chlane
17:59:30 <jamesn> ack chlane
17:59:38 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:59:38 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- -> 1.3 issues https://1drv.ms/x/s!AnttaxUMZAxE1htDcbxbEYMQu73Z -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:00:08 <chlane> jamesn: excel sheet ordered by assigners
18:00:27 <chlane> go through this if you have anything assinged for 1.3
18:01:28 <chlane> jcraig: paste this into a wiki page?
18:01:37 <chlane> jamesn: conversion is the problem
18:01:55 <chlane> jcraig: saved githug query
18:02:08 <chlane> s/githug/github/
18:02:18 <chlane> haha
18:02:38 <chlane> jamesn: no sort by assignee
18:02:50 <jamesn> gh issue list --search 'milestone:"ARIA 1.3"' --limit 200 --state open --json number,title,assignees,state,url | jq  -r '["number","title","assignees","state","url"], (.[] | [.number, .title, (.assignees | if .|length==0 then "Unassigned" elif .|length>1 then map(.login)|join(",") else .[].login end) , .state, .url]) | @tsv' > issues-$(date '+%Y-%m-%d').tsv
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18:03:28 <chlane> zakim, next agendum
18:03:28 <Zakim> I do not see any more non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, chlane
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18:03:43 <chlane>  rrsagent, make minutes
18:03:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-aria-minutes.html chlane
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