IRC log of aria on 2022-06-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:53:18 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-aria-irc
16:53:20 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:53:21 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
16:53:23 [jamesn]
meeting: ARIA WG
16:53:29 [jamesn]
chair: JamesNurthen
16:53:39 [jamesn]
agendabot, find agenda
16:53:39 [agendabot]
jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
16:53:40 [agendabot]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2b92a902-1365-4ea0-8c68-9f8ae2106fe3/20220623T130000
16:53:40 [agendabot]
clear agenda
16:53:40 [agendabot]
agenda+ -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3bh9p4z
16:53:40 [agendabot]
agenda+ -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3tTNEhT
16:53:42 [agendabot]
agenda+ -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates
16:53:45 [agendabot]
agenda+ -> Consider adding a 'decorative image' role https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1746
16:53:48 [agendabot]
agenda+ -> Tidying up section "Characteristics of Roles" https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1733
16:53:51 [agendabot]
agenda+ -> Does aria-hidden obey DOM or AX tree ancestors? https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1714
16:53:54 [agendabot]
agenda+ -> 1.3 issues https://1drv.ms/x/s!AnttaxUMZAxE1htDcbxbEYMQu73Z
16:54:11 [jongund]
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16:55:25 [jamesn]
regrets+ BryanGaraventa
16:55:35 [jamesn]
regrets+ PeterKrautzberger
16:56:06 [jamesn]
agenda?
16:56:11 [jamesn]
present+
17:00:11 [chlane]
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17:04:30 [arigilmore]
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17:05:34 [jamesn]
scribe: chlane
17:05:36 [chlane]
scribe: chlane
17:05:40 [jamesn]
zakim, next item
17:05:40 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3bh9p4z -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:05:43 [dakahn]
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17:06:22 [chlane]
#415 htmlaam dont do anythng wo scott
17:06:38 [chlane]
core-aam#125
17:06:55 [chlane]
get filed on OWL w/ flag
17:07:04 [chlane]
#124
17:07:05 [chlane]
yes
17:07:11 [chlane]
#414
17:07:25 [chlane]
accname computation,
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for input type image
17:09:17 [chlane]
5 can never be true
17:09:38 [StefanS]
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17:09:46 [chlane]
in 4.3.1 in accname computation
17:09:58 [chlane]
clarify what a usable text string is
17:09:59 [StefanS]
present+
17:10:10 [chlane]
empty string is not valid
17:11:01 [chlane]
#162, accname lazy loading script
17:11:14 [jongund]
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17:11:22 [chlane]
jamesn: accname cant do anything with it
17:11:38 [chlane]
because visibility hidden is one them
17:12:17 [chlane]
script cant differentiate between normal functionality of the page and visiblity hidden
17:12:35 [chlane]
bug in the the lazy loading script
17:13:56 [chlane]
#DA its an implementation detail
17:14:34 [chlane]
#1759
17:14:42 [chlane]
revisit aria setsize = 1
17:14:51 [chlane]
jamesn: fix browsers to do this
17:14:56 [chlane]
anyone can comment on it
17:15:33 [chlane]
cleanup
17:15:46 [chlane]
#1758
17:15:50 [chlane]
put in 1.3
17:15:54 [chlane]
by jamesn
17:16:31 [chlane]
jcraig: why expose disallowed value to platform API?
17:16:40 [siri]
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17:16:52 [chlane]
jamesn: confused by spec last week
17:17:27 [chlane]
jamesn: doing different things depending on mapping
17:17:55 [chlane]
treated differently on different platforms super wierd
17:18:10 [chlane]
jcraig: spelling grammer, parsing error,
17:18:24 [chlane]
pass to API if not disallowed phasing is wierd
17:18:58 [chlane]
jamesn: which, ones are platform a11y api attributes?
17:19:14 [chlane]
jcraig: git blame
17:19:30 [chlane]
jamesn: make sense in coreaam
17:19:35 [chlane]
rather than in ARIA
17:20:33 [chlane]
jamesn: needs writing that is understandable when there is an unknown or disallowed value
17:20:51 [jcraig]
s/make sense/might have made sense when it was/
17:20:57 [chlane]
9.2 states and properties
17:21:40 [chlane]
zakim, next agen
17:21:40 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'next agen', chlane
17:21:43 [jcraig]
s/git blame/nm re: git blame, since this was brought in by joanie with other merged content/
17:21:47 [jamesn]
zakim, next item
17:21:47 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3tTNEhT -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:21:58 [jamesn]
zakim, close this item
17:21:58 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
17:21:59 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:21:59 [Zakim]
3. -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates [from agendabot]
17:22:01 [jamesn]
zakim, next item
17:22:01 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:22:04 [chlane]
no prs
17:22:09 [jamesn]
agenda?
17:22:58 [chlane]
deep dive on generic mappings ok for next week
17:23:09 [chlane]
zakim, next agendum
17:23:09 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- -> Consider adding a 'decorative image' role https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1746 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:26:17 [chlane]
q+
17:29:10 [chlane]
jamesn: tips app most images are decorative
17:29:19 [chlane]
jcraig: explore by touch
17:29:44 [chlane]
you will want a desc of an image that takes up 90% of the page
17:29:59 [chlane]
calling this decorative is part of the baggage
17:30:03 [jongund]
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17:30:20 [chlane]
StefanS: mentions project that required a desc of decoratibe image
17:30:29 [jamesn]
ack chlane
17:31:44 [chlane]
jamesn: more of a continuum
17:31:59 [chlane]
jamesn: meaningful, stuff in the middle, spacer
17:32:10 [chlane]
critical
17:32:17 [chlane]
things in middle
17:32:19 [chlane]
avatar
17:32:33 [chlane]
alt text on avatar
17:32:50 [chlane]
level of 0-10
17:33:03 [chlane]
tie in with adaptive personilation
17:33:16 [chlane]
jamesn: simplify UI
17:33:26 [chlane]
how much visual fluff do you want
17:33:37 [chlane]
jcraig: similar to verbosity
17:33:55 [chlane]
if critical it's clickable
17:34:07 [chlane]
verbosity set so high it doesn't matter
17:34:30 [chlane]
screen reader decides to render based on heading
17:34:36 [chlane]
q+
17:35:32 [jamesn]
ack chlane
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17:36:34 [chlane]
DA middle ground is very important
17:36:40 [chlane]
to finding your way around
17:36:49 [chlane]
look for a persons profile
17:36:57 [chlane]
shows posts, contributions
17:37:15 [chlane]
revealing those with some level of verbosity will help if wayfinding
17:37:36 [chlane]
potietiallity for exposing patterns is worth exploring
17:37:44 [jcraig]
q+
17:38:41 [chlane]
jcraig: more detail would he needed for avatar
17:38:52 [chlane]
almost like roles
17:39:08 [chlane]
some people will want to minimize text
17:39:19 [chlane]
can't achieve w/ verbosity
17:39:47 [chlane]
jcraig: something as simple as a single spectrum should not cloud the solution
17:40:06 [chlane]
jamesn: simplification doesn't address this
17:40:43 [chlane]
jcraig: wai-adapt;content module
17:41:19 [chlane]
jcraig: distracted overwhelmed
17:41:24 [chlane]
num of controls
17:41:48 [chlane]
jamesn: that is a better direction
17:42:00 [chlane]
zakim, next agendum
17:42:00 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, chlane
17:42:09 [jamesn]
ack jcraig
17:42:14 [jamesn]
zakim, next item
17:42:14 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- -> Tidying up section "Characteristics of Roles" https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1733 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:42:33 [chlane]
peter is not here
17:45:08 [chlane]
it makes no sense
17:45:37 [chlane]
jamesn: children presentation can't own anything
17:46:04 [chlane]
jamesn: to me that's an error
17:46:18 [chlane]
we should document that
17:46:40 [chlane]
jamesn: user agents should not be exposing the children anyway
17:49:01 [chlane]
jamesn: proposing feature for update to aria owns on roles with presentation children
17:49:11 [chlane]
assinged to himself
17:49:46 [chlane]
will tack aria owns restrictions in #1760
17:50:25 [chlane]
I'll review #1733
17:50:29 [chlane]
arigilmore: as well
17:50:45 [chlane]
zakim, next agendum
17:50:45 [Zakim]
agendum 6 -- -> Does aria-hidden obey DOM or AX tree ancestors? https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1714 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:51:42 [chlane]
jcraig: open questions
17:51:59 [chlane]
jcraig: did we define the order of the owned elements
17:52:03 [chlane]
?
17:52:13 [chlane]
jamesn: not defined but generally works
17:52:19 [chlane]
jamesn: used this before
17:52:43 [chlane]
jcraig: if you don't point to actual children they come first
17:53:02 [chlane]
jamesn: thinks the owned ones come first then everything else
17:53:16 [chlane]
jcraig: can you reverse order?
17:53:28 [chlane]
that would remove it
17:53:36 [chlane]
from DOM relationships
17:54:02 [chlane]
jcraig: surprised if these rules are interoperable between browesers
17:54:36 [chlane]
jcraig: learned since last time, unlikely that we need to
17:55:26 [chlane]
prolematic, more bugs
17:55:52 [chlane]
an owns relationship that reorders will be a major feature project for next year
17:55:54 [chlane]
jamesn:
17:56:01 [chlane]
flowto failure
17:56:07 [chlane]
owns solves these cases
17:56:18 [chlane]
q+
17:57:27 [chlane]
AT buyin is hard for new properties
17:57:40 [chlane]
we have browser devs here
17:57:52 [chlane]
flowto and grabbed failed due to half baked
17:57:57 [chlane]
implementations
17:58:16 [chlane]
flowto is a11y only navition pattertn
17:58:22 [chlane]
palindrome mirrors
17:58:34 [chlane]
flow to doesn't solve
17:59:04 [chlane]
jamesn: only now are we doing complexity
17:59:26 [chlane]
zakim, next agendum
17:59:26 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, chlane
17:59:30 [jamesn]
ack chlane
17:59:38 [jamesn]
zakim, next item
17:59:38 [Zakim]
agendum 7 -- -> 1.3 issues https://1drv.ms/x/s!AnttaxUMZAxE1htDcbxbEYMQu73Z -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:00:08 [chlane]
jamesn: excel sheet ordered by assigners
18:00:27 [chlane]
go through this if you have anything assinged for 1.3
18:01:28 [chlane]
jcraig: paste this into a wiki page?
18:01:37 [chlane]
jamesn: conversion is the problem
18:01:55 [chlane]
jcraig: saved githug query
18:02:08 [chlane]
s/githug/github/
18:02:18 [chlane]
haha
18:02:38 [chlane]
jamesn: no sort by assignee
18:02:50 [jamesn]
gh issue list --search 'milestone:"ARIA 1.3"' --limit 200 --state open --json number,title,assignees,state,url | jq -r '["number","title","assignees","state","url"], (.[] | [.number, .title, (.assignees | if .|length==0 then "Unassigned" elif .|length>1 then map(.login)|join(",") else .[].login end) , .state, .url]) | @tsv' > issues-$(date '+%Y-%m-%d').tsv
18:03:10 [bkardell_]
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18:03:28 [chlane]
zakim, next agendum
18:03:28 [Zakim]
I do not see any more non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, chlane
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rrsagent, make minutes
18:03:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-aria-minutes.html chlane
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