IRC log of aria on 2022-06-23
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:53:18 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #aria
- 16:53:18 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-aria-irc
- 16:53:20 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, make logs Public
- 16:53:21 [Zakim]
- please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
- 16:53:23 [jamesn]
- meeting: ARIA WG
- 16:53:29 [jamesn]
- chair: JamesNurthen
- 16:53:39 [jamesn]
- agendabot, find agenda
- 16:53:39 [agendabot]
- jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
- 16:53:40 [agendabot]
- agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2b92a902-1365-4ea0-8c68-9f8ae2106fe3/20220623T130000
- 16:53:40 [agendabot]
- clear agenda
- 16:53:40 [agendabot]
- agenda+ -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3bh9p4z
- 16:53:40 [agendabot]
- agenda+ -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3tTNEhT
- 16:53:42 [agendabot]
- agenda+ -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates
- 16:53:45 [agendabot]
- agenda+ -> Consider adding a 'decorative image' role https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1746
- 16:53:48 [agendabot]
- agenda+ -> Tidying up section "Characteristics of Roles" https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1733
- 16:53:51 [agendabot]
- agenda+ -> Does aria-hidden obey DOM or AX tree ancestors? https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1714
- 16:53:54 [agendabot]
- agenda+ -> 1.3 issues https://1drv.ms/x/s!AnttaxUMZAxE1htDcbxbEYMQu73Z
- 16:54:11 [jongund]
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- 16:55:25 [jamesn]
- regrets+ BryanGaraventa
- 16:55:35 [jamesn]
- regrets+ PeterKrautzberger
- 16:56:06 [jamesn]
- agenda?
- 16:56:11 [jamesn]
- present+
- 17:00:11 [chlane]
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- 17:04:30 [arigilmore]
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- 17:05:34 [jamesn]
- scribe: chlane
- 17:05:36 [chlane]
- scribe: chlane
- 17:05:40 [jamesn]
- zakim, next item
- 17:05:40 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3bh9p4z -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 17:05:43 [dakahn]
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- 17:06:22 [chlane]
- #415 htmlaam dont do anythng wo scott
- 17:06:38 [chlane]
- core-aam#125
- 17:06:55 [chlane]
- get filed on OWL w/ flag
- 17:07:04 [chlane]
- #124
- 17:07:05 [chlane]
- yes
- 17:07:11 [chlane]
- #414
- 17:07:25 [chlane]
- accname computation,
- 17:07:38 [chlane]
- for input type image
- 17:09:17 [chlane]
- 5 can never be true
- 17:09:38 [StefanS]
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- 17:09:46 [chlane]
- in 4.3.1 in accname computation
- 17:09:58 [chlane]
- clarify what a usable text string is
- 17:09:59 [StefanS]
- present+
- 17:10:10 [chlane]
- empty string is not valid
- 17:11:01 [chlane]
- #162, accname lazy loading script
- 17:11:14 [jongund]
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- 17:11:22 [chlane]
- jamesn: accname cant do anything with it
- 17:11:38 [chlane]
- because visibility hidden is one them
- 17:12:17 [chlane]
- script cant differentiate between normal functionality of the page and visiblity hidden
- 17:12:35 [chlane]
- bug in the the lazy loading script
- 17:13:56 [chlane]
- #DA its an implementation detail
- 17:14:34 [chlane]
- #1759
- 17:14:42 [chlane]
- revisit aria setsize = 1
- 17:14:51 [chlane]
- jamesn: fix browsers to do this
- 17:14:56 [chlane]
- anyone can comment on it
- 17:15:33 [chlane]
- cleanup
- 17:15:46 [chlane]
- #1758
- 17:15:50 [chlane]
- put in 1.3
- 17:15:54 [chlane]
- by jamesn
- 17:16:31 [chlane]
- jcraig: why expose disallowed value to platform API?
- 17:16:40 [siri]
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- 17:16:52 [chlane]
- jamesn: confused by spec last week
- 17:17:27 [chlane]
- jamesn: doing different things depending on mapping
- 17:17:55 [chlane]
- treated differently on different platforms super wierd
- 17:18:10 [chlane]
- jcraig: spelling grammer, parsing error,
- 17:18:24 [chlane]
- pass to API if not disallowed phasing is wierd
- 17:18:58 [chlane]
- jamesn: which, ones are platform a11y api attributes?
- 17:19:14 [chlane]
- jcraig: git blame
- 17:19:30 [chlane]
- jamesn: make sense in coreaam
- 17:19:35 [chlane]
- rather than in ARIA
- 17:20:33 [chlane]
- jamesn: needs writing that is understandable when there is an unknown or disallowed value
- 17:20:51 [jcraig]
- s/make sense/might have made sense when it was/
- 17:20:57 [chlane]
- 9.2 states and properties
- 17:21:40 [chlane]
- zakim, next agen
- 17:21:40 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'next agen', chlane
- 17:21:43 [jcraig]
- s/git blame/nm re: git blame, since this was brought in by joanie with other merged content/
- 17:21:47 [jamesn]
- zakim, next item
- 17:21:47 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3tTNEhT -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 17:21:58 [jamesn]
- zakim, close this item
- 17:21:58 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 closed
- 17:21:59 [Zakim]
- I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 17:21:59 [Zakim]
- 3. -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates [from agendabot]
- 17:22:01 [jamesn]
- zakim, next item
- 17:22:01 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 17:22:04 [chlane]
- no prs
- 17:22:09 [jamesn]
- agenda?
- 17:22:58 [chlane]
- deep dive on generic mappings ok for next week
- 17:23:09 [chlane]
- zakim, next agendum
- 17:23:09 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- -> Consider adding a 'decorative image' role https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1746 -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 17:26:17 [chlane]
- q+
- 17:29:10 [chlane]
- jamesn: tips app most images are decorative
- 17:29:19 [chlane]
- jcraig: explore by touch
- 17:29:44 [chlane]
- you will want a desc of an image that takes up 90% of the page
- 17:29:59 [chlane]
- calling this decorative is part of the baggage
- 17:30:03 [jongund]
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- 17:30:20 [chlane]
- StefanS: mentions project that required a desc of decoratibe image
- 17:30:29 [jamesn]
- ack chlane
- 17:31:44 [chlane]
- jamesn: more of a continuum
- 17:31:59 [chlane]
- jamesn: meaningful, stuff in the middle, spacer
- 17:32:10 [chlane]
- critical
- 17:32:17 [chlane]
- things in middle
- 17:32:19 [chlane]
- avatar
- 17:32:33 [chlane]
- alt text on avatar
- 17:32:50 [chlane]
- level of 0-10
- 17:33:03 [chlane]
- tie in with adaptive personilation
- 17:33:16 [chlane]
- jamesn: simplify UI
- 17:33:26 [chlane]
- how much visual fluff do you want
- 17:33:37 [chlane]
- jcraig: similar to verbosity
- 17:33:55 [chlane]
- if critical it's clickable
- 17:34:07 [chlane]
- verbosity set so high it doesn't matter
- 17:34:30 [chlane]
- screen reader decides to render based on heading
- 17:34:36 [chlane]
- q+
- 17:35:32 [jamesn]
- ack chlane
- 17:36:13 [jongund]
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- 17:36:34 [chlane]
- DA middle ground is very important
- 17:36:40 [chlane]
- to finding your way around
- 17:36:49 [chlane]
- look for a persons profile
- 17:36:57 [chlane]
- shows posts, contributions
- 17:37:15 [chlane]
- revealing those with some level of verbosity will help if wayfinding
- 17:37:36 [chlane]
- potietiallity for exposing patterns is worth exploring
- 17:37:44 [jcraig]
- q+
- 17:38:41 [chlane]
- jcraig: more detail would he needed for avatar
- 17:38:52 [chlane]
- almost like roles
- 17:39:08 [chlane]
- some people will want to minimize text
- 17:39:19 [chlane]
- can't achieve w/ verbosity
- 17:39:47 [chlane]
- jcraig: something as simple as a single spectrum should not cloud the solution
- 17:40:06 [chlane]
- jamesn: simplification doesn't address this
- 17:40:43 [chlane]
- jcraig: wai-adapt;content module
- 17:41:19 [chlane]
- jcraig: distracted overwhelmed
- 17:41:24 [chlane]
- num of controls
- 17:41:48 [chlane]
- jamesn: that is a better direction
- 17:42:00 [chlane]
- zakim, next agendum
- 17:42:00 [Zakim]
- I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, chlane
- 17:42:09 [jamesn]
- ack jcraig
- 17:42:14 [jamesn]
- zakim, next item
- 17:42:14 [Zakim]
- agendum 5 -- -> Tidying up section "Characteristics of Roles" https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1733 -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 17:42:33 [chlane]
- peter is not here
- 17:45:08 [chlane]
- it makes no sense
- 17:45:37 [chlane]
- jamesn: children presentation can't own anything
- 17:46:04 [chlane]
- jamesn: to me that's an error
- 17:46:18 [chlane]
- we should document that
- 17:46:40 [chlane]
- jamesn: user agents should not be exposing the children anyway
- 17:49:01 [chlane]
- jamesn: proposing feature for update to aria owns on roles with presentation children
- 17:49:11 [chlane]
- assinged to himself
- 17:49:46 [chlane]
- will tack aria owns restrictions in #1760
- 17:50:25 [chlane]
- I'll review #1733
- 17:50:29 [chlane]
- arigilmore: as well
- 17:50:45 [chlane]
- zakim, next agendum
- 17:50:45 [Zakim]
- agendum 6 -- -> Does aria-hidden obey DOM or AX tree ancestors? https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1714 -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 17:51:42 [chlane]
- jcraig: open questions
- 17:51:59 [chlane]
- jcraig: did we define the order of the owned elements
- 17:52:03 [chlane]
- ?
- 17:52:13 [chlane]
- jamesn: not defined but generally works
- 17:52:19 [chlane]
- jamesn: used this before
- 17:52:43 [chlane]
- jcraig: if you don't point to actual children they come first
- 17:53:02 [chlane]
- jamesn: thinks the owned ones come first then everything else
- 17:53:16 [chlane]
- jcraig: can you reverse order?
- 17:53:28 [chlane]
- that would remove it
- 17:53:36 [chlane]
- from DOM relationships
- 17:54:02 [chlane]
- jcraig: surprised if these rules are interoperable between browesers
- 17:54:36 [chlane]
- jcraig: learned since last time, unlikely that we need to
- 17:55:26 [chlane]
- prolematic, more bugs
- 17:55:52 [chlane]
- an owns relationship that reorders will be a major feature project for next year
- 17:55:54 [chlane]
- jamesn:
- 17:56:01 [chlane]
- flowto failure
- 17:56:07 [chlane]
- owns solves these cases
- 17:56:18 [chlane]
- q+
- 17:57:27 [chlane]
- AT buyin is hard for new properties
- 17:57:40 [chlane]
- we have browser devs here
- 17:57:52 [chlane]
- flowto and grabbed failed due to half baked
- 17:57:57 [chlane]
- implementations
- 17:58:16 [chlane]
- flowto is a11y only navition pattertn
- 17:58:22 [chlane]
- palindrome mirrors
- 17:58:34 [chlane]
- flow to doesn't solve
- 17:59:04 [chlane]
- jamesn: only now are we doing complexity
- 17:59:26 [chlane]
- zakim, next agendum
- 17:59:26 [Zakim]
- I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, chlane
- 17:59:30 [jamesn]
- ack chlane
- 17:59:38 [jamesn]
- zakim, next item
- 17:59:38 [Zakim]
- agendum 7 -- -> 1.3 issues https://1drv.ms/x/s!AnttaxUMZAxE1htDcbxbEYMQu73Z -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 18:00:08 [chlane]
- jamesn: excel sheet ordered by assigners
- 18:00:27 [chlane]
- go through this if you have anything assinged for 1.3
- 18:01:28 [chlane]
- jcraig: paste this into a wiki page?
- 18:01:37 [chlane]
- jamesn: conversion is the problem
- 18:01:55 [chlane]
- jcraig: saved githug query
- 18:02:08 [chlane]
- s/githug/github/
- 18:02:18 [chlane]
- haha
- 18:02:38 [chlane]
- jamesn: no sort by assignee
- 18:02:50 [jamesn]
- gh issue list --search 'milestone:"ARIA 1.3"' --limit 200 --state open --json number,title,assignees,state,url | jq -r '["number","title","assignees","state","url"], (.[] | [.number, .title, (.assignees | if .|length==0 then "Unassigned" elif .|length>1 then map(.login)|join(",") else .[].login end) , .state, .url]) | @tsv' > issues-$(date '+%Y-%m-%d').tsv
- 18:03:10 [bkardell_]
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- 18:03:28 [chlane]
- zakim, next agendum
- 18:03:28 [Zakim]
- I do not see any more non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, chlane
- 18:03:38 [zcorpan]
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- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:03:43 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/23-aria-minutes.html chlane
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