15:56:24 RRSAgent has joined #silver-conf 15:56:24 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/06/16-silver-conf-irc 15:56:27 agenda? 15:56:39 Meeting: Silver Conformance Options Subgroup 15:56:47 Date 16 Jun 2022 15:56:51 Chair: Janina 15:56:55 rrsagent, make log public 15:57:00 Agenda+ Agenda Review & Administrative Items 15:57:00 agenda+ Adding an impact statement 15:57:00 agenda+ Tuesday Presentation Prep: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G9q082IFl4Rj4o07qMx8Y_5oFoDN7Lmx-5i3ViROpD8/ 15:57:03 agenda+ Other Business 15:57:05 agenda+ Be Done 15:57:58 rrsagent, make minutes 15:57:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/16-silver-conf-minutes.html janina 16:00:34 kirkwood has joined #silver-conf 16:00:44 present+ shadi 16:01:45 present+ 16:01:50 maryjom has joined #silver-conf 16:02:13 present+ 16:02:24 GreggVan has joined #silver-conf 16:04:05 present+ 16:04:12 present+ Shadi 16:04:14 scribe+: maryjom 16:04:15 present+ 16:04:23 present+ 16:04:31 zakim, take up next 16:04:31 agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Administrative Items -- taken up [from janina] 16:04:32 present- shadi 16:04:42 rrsagent, make minutes 16:04:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/16-silver-conf-minutes.html jeanne 16:06:28 janina: Announcement - we are presenting to AG WG call on Tuesday based on the document in our agenda. 16:07:04 Summary -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G9q082IFl4Rj4o07qMx8Y_5oFoDN7Lmx-5i3ViROpD8/ 16:07:11 zakim, take up next 16:07:11 agendum 2 -- Adding an impact statement -- taken up [from janina] 16:07:18 Summary -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G9q082IFl4Rj4o07qMx8Y_5oFoDN7Lmx-5i3ViROpD8/ 16:07:32 q? 16:08:05 jeanne: I showed this document to the AG WG chairs and began exploring the uses of these use cases. 16:08:19 q+ 16:08:30 q+ 16:08:34 jeanne: They suggested creating an impact statement to show what would happen if we do nothing about this situation. 16:08:50 jeanne: It can be used to evaluate whatever is proposed for conformance. 16:09:20 jeanne: This is an interesting idea that may make it more powerful when addressing solutions. 16:09:27 q+ shadi 16:10:42 ack ja 16:10:47 ack gr 16:10:48 janina: I think this is a worthy thing to think about and potentially do, especially in case-by-case analysis. 16:11:02 Wilco has joined #silver-conf 16:11:06 present+ 16:11:30 q? 16:11:36 GreggVan: These are useful in thinking about how we want to structure the document, to address policy issues, and a way to bounce conformance model against. 16:12:08 GreggVan: Don't want to put full burden of conformance model analysis on this document, but it can be helpful in that work. 16:12:40 ack sh 16:12:42 GreggVan: The document has many uses 16:12:56 ToddL has joined #silver-conf 16:13:01 present+ 16:13:10 shadi: What happens if we don't pursue this work. I think we can clarify this more in the problem statement. 16:13:17 regrets+ Azlan 16:13:28 qq+ to clarify that it is impact of each use case 16:13:53 shadi: We should take another pass to clarify some more and look at the structure. We are trying to break down this big problem space into smaller questions. 16:14:23 shadi: There have not been similar statements from other groups, but we need to better understand what the chairs want. 16:14:23 ack je 16:14:23 jeanne, you wanted to react to shadi to clarify that it is impact of each use case 16:14:45 jeanne: What they are asking for is an impact statement for each use case, not for the whole document. 16:15:20 janina: Yes, we think it's a good idea and will work on that as part of the development of this document. 16:15:27 zakim, next item 16:15:27 agendum 3 -- Tuesday Presentation Prep: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G9q082IFl4Rj4o07qMx8Y_5oFoDN7Lmx-5i3ViROpD8/ -- taken up [from janina] 16:16:08 jeanne: Walking us through the document... 16:17:30 janina: If we have multiple speakers presenting this, we'd have to practice transitions. 16:18:52 jeanne: Integrated comments from last week and added links. There is a PR approved to the main document so we have a URL, but URLs are not working. 16:19:18 jeanne: Michael Cooper has been notified. Gave him what the URLs should be. 16:19:52 jeanne: Provided alternate URL links in case the links with anchors are still not working. 16:20:33 jeanne: In the main branch of GitHub IO links aren't working, but in the branch they are. 16:20:41 q+ 16:20:47 ack gr 16:20:55 janina: I'll talk to Michael Cooper about fixing the links 16:21:13 q+ 16:21:26 GreggVan: Have problems providing links to the main document since there are many concerns with the content. 16:22:08 janina: We have agreed that this is a work in progress and will advertise it as such. 16:22:45 janina: We're putting up the summary document. The summary has links, to the details but we will say those details are preliminary 16:23:21 GreggVan: Want to have a warning in the detailed document that there are members with strong objections to the content in it. 16:23:41 jeanne: We can put a disclaimer at the top. 16:23:53 GreggVan: I will author a disclaimer to put in there. 16:25:04 shadi: This is a work in progress and we have been discussing Gregg's comments but have not had time to address them. There are multiple opinions. 16:25:06 q+ 16:25:19 q? 16:25:46 GreggVan: We should have 2 documents. One with use cases and one with ideas of how to deal with them. 16:25:57 ack ja 16:26:19 DarrylLehmann has joined #silver-conf 16:26:39 GreggVan: If you remove the dispositions you can get acceptance of the document. What we should do about them is another thing and should be separate. 16:27:00 jeanne: Propose to make another version that removes the recommendations. 16:27:26 q? 16:27:31 janina: There is general agreement from the group to do that. 16:27:38 ack jea 16:28:22 janina: Who will present it to the group? 16:28:56 janina: I will take it on and will be ready to stay within the time limit. How much time do we have? 16:29:14 jeanne: We are on top of the agenda. 16:29:36 q+ to say 30 minutes 16:30:20 Wilco: Implementation of 2.2 is the first topic for the AG WG meeting, but probably not a long agenda item. 16:30:24 je 16:30:27 ack jean 16:30:27 jeanne, you wanted to say 30 minutes 16:30:28 s/je// 16:30:42 ack je 16:30:46 jeanne: It's 30 minutes total, including questions/discussion time. 16:31:13 Wilco: Will reach out to the chairs to confirm. 16:31:42 janina: We are down to summary and cases - anything we need to revise at this point? 16:31:58 q? 16:33:14 jeanne: I only made some editorial changes. We've already introduced the use cases before. We should emphasize how these can be used. 16:33:57 jeanne: We also welcome them adding use cases and the document can be used as a central use case repository. 16:34:47 janina: This is probably not complete, but complete enough for now and useful. 16:34:51 q? 16:35:01 sorry had to leave 16:35:30 jeanne: This will give us most of the summer to develop proposals to discuss at TPAC. 16:36:00 jeanne: Since Gregg had to leave, we can't go over his comments. 16:37:12 janina: At TPAC AG WG is meeting all days Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. APA is meeting Tuesday and Thursday. 16:38:04 jeanne: Technically we're covering WCAG 2.2 for 2 days and Silver for 2 days. 16:38:29 topic: Potential impact statements 16:39:23 q? 16:39:36 Wilco: The impact of not addressing these things are often the same thing. Either exceptions in regulations, or statements of partial conformance in accessibility statements. 16:41:56 q? 16:41:59 janina: Do companies use "partial conformance"? 16:42:29 WCAG 2.1 Partial Conformance -> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#conformance-partial 16:42:33 q+ 16:42:36 maryjom: Yes, VPATs allow a partial conformance to show that work was done but there are known issues. 16:43:17 q? 16:43:20 ack jea 16:43:34 shadi: Also accessibility statements on websites also document known issues and whether or not there's full conformance with details. 16:43:57 jeanne: Reads WCAG's partial conformance information from link above. 16:46:29 jeanne: Most of the partial conformance has to do with 3rd party content, and also interesting it states "2 days for correction". 16:47:12 q? 16:47:18 shadi: We can state that there is this partial conformance in WCAG that could be improved on. 16:48:02 jeanne: We could do better than just allowing a statement that you don't conform or partially conform. It doesn't imply that you intend to fix anything. 16:48:41 q+ 16:48:53 jeanne: For each of the use cases, there could be something that provides methods to make it better. To make the improvements over time. 16:49:25 shadi: There are areas where policy is actually fully exempting things like media. There could be a better approach. 16:49:50 Wilco: Is there a way to come up with the policy exceptions? Maybe we should create a list. 16:50:28 Wilco: Many of us are aware of these things and we could do better than blanket "undue burden" exceptions. 16:50:52 janina: There could be things that can be done to make it more responsive and "smarter" approach. 16:51:15 jeanne: There's also technical things we can require. We can require metadata. 16:52:12 janina: SAUER, Maturity model, COGA, etc. could be things that could be utilized to address some situations. 16:53:03 janina: Authors are having difficulty coming up to speed on all of these specs with their authoring requirements. It's solvable, but an issue right now. 16:53:49 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32016L2102&from=EN#d1e807-1-1 16:53:52 janina: We should judiciously provide different avenues to address - through the requirements, guidance for regulators, etc. 16:55:03 maryjom: Canada actually excepts certain multimedia criteria altogether. 16:55:18 jeanne: I'm working on creating a document where we can list these. 16:55:27 DOcument for capturing policy -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/119Gv7cvKPP9TLjEtR1cD1yPyPvtX_lAdAeqfwv3NoOs/ 16:56:08 rrsagent, make minutes 16:56:08 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/16-silver-conf-minutes.html maryjom 17:10:33 zakim, bye 17:10:33 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been shadi, jeanne, maryjom, janina, GreggVan, Wilco, ToddL 17:10:33 Zakim has left #silver-conf 17:10:40 rrsagent, make minutes 17:10:40 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/16-silver-conf-minutes.html maryjom 17:23:52 kirkwood has joined #silver-conf