IRC log of wot-script on 2022-06-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:10:25 [RRSAgent]

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/06/13-wot-script-irc

11:10:35 [kaz]

meeting: WoT Scripting API

11:10:55 [kaz]

present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Michael_McCool, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Zoltan_Kis

11:11:19 [kaz]

agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Scripting_API_WebConf#13_June_2022

11:11:20 [zkis]

scribe: zkis

11:11:56 [zkis]

Topic: previous minutes

11:12:10 [cris_]

https://www.w3.org/2022/05/30-wot-script-minutes.html

11:12:21 [kaz]

s/https/-> https/

11:12:27 [kaz]

s/html/html May-30/

11:13:00 [McCool_]

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11:14:58 [zkis]

CA corrected some typos

11:15:09 [zkis]

Minutes approved.

11:16:13 [zkis]

Topic: aligning Discovery spec with Scripting

11:17:31 [zkis]

MMc: the Discovery spec needs a section for CoAP (for self description)

11:17:43 [zkis]

... otherwise is pretty much done

11:17:54 [zkis]

Subtopic: Discoverer section

11:18:13 [kaz]

i|the Discovery spec|-> https://w3c.github.io/wot-discovery/ WoT Discovery draft|

11:18:18 [zkis]

The spec assumes CoAP is supported, but not yet

11:19:12 [zkis]

MMc: the Discoverer section will lists requirements for introductions by clients

11:19:40 [zkis]

... 1. at least one introduction mechanism MUST be supported, e.g. a URL

11:20:38 [zkis]

ZK: these are the capabilities the runtime needs for discovery (i.e. Scripting implementation)

11:20:57 [zkis]

MMc: this is related to who is doing discovery

11:21:14 [zkis]

... any introduction, including mDNS or CoRE is enough

11:21:42 [zkis]

... even for direct discovery, the hostname is needed

11:22:49 [zkis]

... 2. Discovery MUST find at least one TD

11:22:56 [zkis]

ZK: why is this one needed?

11:23:30 [zkis]

MMc: the fetching capability is needed

11:23:39 [zkis]

... could be a file as well

11:24:41 [zkis]

CA: details for files?

11:24:55 [zkis]

MMc: file support might go away because of the URL quirks

11:25:32 [zkis]

... the protocols are mentioned below: HTTP, CoAP, (file)

11:27:56 [zkis]

MMc: presents diagram for discovery

11:28:40 [zkis]

CA: so we should define algorithms and tests in Scripting

11:30:31 [zkis]

ZK: you need a priori knowledge for URLs

11:30:40 [zkis]

MMc: one can also use mDNS etc

11:31:36 [zkis]

ZK: this is relevant because we might want to reintroduce multicast (mDNS like) discovery

11:32:02 [zkis]

MMc: multicast is probably a local discovery method, for security reasons

11:32:31 [zkis]

... it might be behind a well known single URI

11:33:57 [zkis]

ZK: if we dont' reintroduce multicast, we could say the empty arguments to discovery means the impl can use any available methods it can figure out

11:34:17 [zkis]

MMc: the client needs to make distinction between local network discovery and the rest

11:34:46 [zkis]

CA: there are 2 kinds of apps: ones that know the URLs, but others don't know where to get these from, and would delegate to the runtime

11:35:34 [zkis]

ZK: MMc made the point that no args be limited to the local network, for security

11:36:13 [zkis]

MMc: yes, and moreover, a given failed URL could be used by the impl to figure out eventual discovery methods

11:36:44 [zkis]

CA: what if the runtime is provisioned with a directory? is that still allowed?

11:36:56 [zkis]

MMc: it gets in the management API, outside of Scripting

11:37:15 [zkis]

... a fallback directory might make sense

11:37:32 [zkis]

ZK: that is a choice the solution has to make

11:37:41 [zkis]

MMc: yes, and the impl provides mechanisms for that

11:38:01 [zkis]

CA: so in node-wot we'd support these mechanisms

11:38:24 [zkis]

MMc: yes, so when no args are given, the runtime defaults can be used

11:39:16 [zkis]

ZK: we need references from Scripting algorithms to Discovery spec clauses

11:39:24 [zkis]

CA: yes, thinking the same

11:39:44 [zkis]

MMc: we were thinking to define also flowcharts (algorithms) in addition to the pictures

11:40:04 [zkis]

CA: we can prototype the algorithms and they could be also used in the Discovery spec

11:40:22 [zkis]

MMc: if we follow Thing links, it may enter into loops

11:40:36 [zkis]

... there is the requirements to avoid loops

11:40:53 [zkis]

... since id's are optional, impl needs to attach a hash

11:41:09 [zkis]

... however, the impl can make decisions whether to follow links

11:42:22 [zkis]

ZK: the discovery provides TDs, and whether it contains links, it's a representation problem, in the consume process

11:42:40 [zkis]

MMc: we need to think more about handling TDs with links

11:43:21 [zkis]

MMc: we'd stop with this now, but need feedback from Scripting today

11:44:16 [zkis]

... let's see of CoAP will be removed for now

11:44:30 [zkis]

ZK: would be nice for OCF things

11:44:43 [zkis]

MMc: we can do without CoAP, HTTP is enough for now

11:45:58 [zkis]

CA: maybe Jan could comment on this

11:46:51 [kaz]

zakim, who is on the call?

11:46:51 [Zakim]

Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Michael_McCool, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Zoltan_Kis

11:47:01 [kaz]

present+ Jan_Romann

11:47:12 [zkis]

Jan: certainly, could take a look

11:47:20 [kaz]

chair: Cristiano_Aguzzi

11:47:26 [kaz]

regrets+ Daniel

11:48:04 [zkis]

MMc: most of this needs to be done today

11:48:55 [zkis]

... in fact it might be easier to add CoAP, so let's try to make it, make a PR for the missing section

11:49:19 [zkis]

CA: we can move on

11:49:48 [zkis]

Topic: issue 403

11:50:01 [cris_]

https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/issues/403

11:51:50 [zkis]

CA: should we close this or make a small PR with explicit statement?

11:51:50 [cris_]

https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/issues/407

11:52:01 [zkis]

ZK: the latter, more explicit is better

11:52:04 [zkis]

CA: ok

11:52:14 [zkis]

Topic: issue 407

11:52:22 [zkis]

https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/issues/407

11:58:57 [cris_]

https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/issues/408

11:59:09 [zkis]

CA: we might need to replace observeHandler with propertyChangeHandler

11:59:29 [zkis]

ZK: good idea to sweep the spec for the use of internal slots on properties

12:00:58 [zkis]

Topic: issue 408

12:01:23 [zkis]

CA: IMHO we can remove this, as the app is always controlling emitting an event

12:01:32 [zkis]

ZK: let's discuss that offline, too

12:02:01 [kaz]

[adjounred]

12:02:12 [zkis]

CA: please also take a look at issue 409

12:02:15 [kaz]

s/adjounred/adjourned/

12:02:15 [zkis]

adjourned

12:02:22 [kaz]

s/[adjourned]//

12:02:33 [kaz]

rrsagent, make log public

12:02:37 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

12:02:37 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/13-wot-script-minutes.html kaz

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